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View Full Version : Steering Steering: Power: Bendix: Fluid: Changing, Flushing, ...



tomhoo
05-16-2015, 02:00 PM
My fluid looks like Poly Paint so I want to R&R the fluid.

Obviously I have emptied the reservoir but its not clear how to drain the rest of the system. (The shop manual has no information from what I could (not) find.)

Also, I'm going to hang a computer hard drive magnet on the stud in the reservoir to attract the metal particles. Searching the internet, I saw that other people have done this successfully - I was concerned the adhesive between the magnet and plate might fail (but even if it did, the magnet is big and would have no chance of getting sucked into the pump.)

Checking my oil shelf, I have a little Dextron II, Power Steering Fluid, and Cat Transmission and Drive Train Oil to choose from. (I have a case of the Cat oil and so I'd like to use that up.

karterfred88
05-16-2015, 02:48 PM
To completely drain it, you have to pull hoses off the control valve and the ram. Buy a few quarts of Dextron or Type F Ford ATF, run, drain and repeat two or three times till it looks clean. The magnet will work to collect your pump's "grinding roller" debris in the pump reservoir as they wear out and help keep from clogging the control valve ports. Ford had a return line filter that did the same thing but it is long NLA. I'd advise against using anything other than the ATF. Others have had some luck with "power steering fluid" of different brands, and even hydraulic fluid from tractors. Your car -your choice--don't mix stuff. Seals were designed for ATF Type A---long gone--Dextron II and III say they are backward compatible?? Good Luck.

tomhoo
05-16-2015, 03:03 PM
There is no way I'd attempt to remove the hoses from the control valve - the only way I can see how to do that is move the drag link as far aft as possible and then remove fittings with flair nut crows foot wrenches. NO WAY RAY! (haha)

I was thinking along the lines of


Turn Steering all the way to the left,
Remove return line from reservoir and put in pan or bottle,
Fill reservoir
Start engine
Keeping reservoir full of new oil:

Let system flush until waste is clean
Steer all the way to the right,
Let system flush until waste is clean
Steer all the way to the left,
Let system flush until waste is clean


Finished


UPDATE EDIT: I did the flush and some tips:


Make sure the discharge hose is fastened to the jug. When even idling, there is a lot of flow and it will blow the hose out of the jug if not restrained (yes, I thought it might and it did!)
You won't have time to dwell between the lock-to-lock steps. You'll be turning the wheel right to left and back continuously.
If you work fast, you will use 1 quart for every R to L, and L to R lock-to-lock step. I used about 1.5 quarts.
I used almost 4 quarts to do the steps I outlined.



The Cat Fluid is hydraulic fluid that can be used in Muscle Car automatic transmissions. But like you say, who knows. I'm thinking I put the Dextron in it and what I have is what was left over.
____________________

EDIT: RE: Return Line Filter:

Seems like there is a whole bumper crop of them which also have magnets in them. The Import Car Manufacturers are way into Reservoir Magnets and Filter Magnets - and Honda does it different from everyone else from what little time I spent researching...

Even Studebaker did it (!) pre-61 Eaton Pumps (used with Bendix) actually had a replaceable filter inside the reservoir. Now WHY did they quit that???? (Hummmm... I don't think I ever squirreled one of those away because when I put PS on my Lark, I believe I picked out my best pump.... but that was 15 years ago...)

StudeRich
05-16-2015, 03:17 PM
This is THE BEST way to do this you figured it out, good job. Works like a charm! :!:

There should not be a drop of Old burned fluid left, when this is done right.

Just my opinion, but I still prefer the actual replacement for Type A, the Type "F" older Ford Spec. ATF just as the Trans. should be.

Certainly not something for Caterpillars.

karterfred88
05-16-2015, 04:45 PM
Sounds good to me. I've removed hoses, replaced, rebuilt the valve on the car--but what a PITA. And after all that work the d@@***m valve leaked anyway, and having to remove the pitman arm to send it out. As StudeRich said, I'd stick to the Type F if your FLAPS carry it. Anything else may start things leaking and more work.

Mike
05-16-2015, 08:15 PM
I used a "cow magnet" from the feed store. It's strong enough so it doesn't rattle around in the reservoir. It saved my hard drive; and I get to joke about catching cows. Some stores even sell a choice of new or used magnets! I guess if you had a whole herd of power steering reservoirs, you could save a few dollars by buying used.
Mike M.

tomhoo
05-16-2015, 09:08 PM
HOLY MOO-ly BATMAN!

I had this weird magnet in my junk magnet stash and had NO IDEA why a magnet would ever be made to that shape...

UNTIL NOW!

I have a COW MAGNET!

Yee Haw...

_________________

EDIT a fascinating topic: If the cow does not respond to the treatment (for "hardware disease"), slaughter should be considered. Wow... don't ever go to a Cow Doctor in a pinch!

Also, learned that a cow has a 4th bonivial meta-colon. I would have never guessed!

NOTE: The Cow Magnet keeps the "hardware" from proceeding "downstream" where damage can occur. So the cow lives its live with a magnetic ball of debris in its... well, whatever that part is where the magnet resides...

tomhoo
05-16-2015, 11:02 PM
Now I have to replace the PS belt - mine was as hard as a rock - and it was squealing too.

Had some old ones from other cars and really don't get it - they all sit high in the pulleys - definitely too wide.

The one I'm retiring sits down in the pulley like it should. I believe it is a 13/32 width. The others appear to be 15/32.

Now I have to find a quality v-belt. I know Dayco Top Cogs are terrible for staying on the alternator when power shifting. Back in the 70's, Motorcraft made a very nice belt with good ply structure. These days I have no idea who makes the good belts.

jimmijim8
05-17-2015, 08:48 AM
How about siphoning the reservoir contents and refilling a couple-three times? Should that not do it. cheers jimmijim

tomhoo
05-17-2015, 10:15 AM
Refilling would work but that only dilutes - a certain amount of the contaminants will remain. Definitely easy though.

The flush is always preferred. (But if not done sufficiently, contaminants remain as well.)

Actually, anything you do will significantly improve matters. But I think the magnet MUST be done - even if nothing else.

jackb
05-17-2015, 10:38 AM
go back to post # 3

tomhoo
05-17-2015, 06:01 PM
On BELTS and PULLEY ALIGNMENT:

Got A Duralast cogged belt from Autozone. Looks unimpressive.


Advance has Dayco and the local store had traditional cogged but not my size, 15375. I go to the next down Advance and same number is Top Cog. Then in this town I learned that Frank's Auto Supermarket closed up. Went back home to Autozone. NOTE: RockAuto had belts for $1.06! The Duralast was $9 and the Dayco would have been $12 with garage discount.


Now I did try one of the old 15/32nds belts and while it did not slip, it got thrown off when I tried to lock-to-lock while parked!

So I checked pulley alignment and it was off almost 1/4 inch!

I had to flip the pulley on the Eaton pump, and then shim back with a washer. NOTE: with the pulley flipped and in proper alignment, it barely clears the bolt heads holding the mounting bracket on the pump.

Fired it up and no squeals.

Finally.... DONE!

Frank DuVal
05-18-2015, 11:04 AM
Does any one have a technical sheet showing that Type F is similar to Type A?

Back in the 60s Dexron II replaced Type A. Type F came out in 1967 for Ford transmissions of that era and was used through the early 80s by Ford. Then the Ford transmissions were designed for Mercron fluid.

All the literature I find states Dexron II and III are the replacements for Type A.

tomhoo
05-18-2015, 01:00 PM
I don't know where the link is but consider the following:


Transmission Fluid Information

Written by Daniel Stern

Submitted to the MML: February 9, 1995
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good morning everyone.

Here is the lowdown on transmission fluids:

Automatic Drive Fluid. Used on REALLY REALLY REALLY early automatic drives.
Automatic Transmission Fluid, Type A: Used for a few years in the '50s
by everyone until:
Automatic Transmission Fluid, Type-A/Suffix-A. This
stuff is also called AQ-ATF. Specified for Torqueflites until:
DEXRON came on the scene in the late '60s. Dexron was the specified
fluid for Torqueflites until:
DEXRON II replaced Dexron in the 70s. There were some early-90s variants
of Dexron II called Dexron II-D and Dexron II-E. Dexron II was specced for
Torqueflites until VERY recently, when:
DEXRON III shipped in place of Dexron II. Dexron III fluid also meets
"MERCON" specs for Furds. Dexron III is specced for new Torqueflites,
but not for some of the new FWD MoPars, notably the Neon, which call for
ChryCo Spec 7176 fluid.

NOTE: Type "F" Fluid replaced Type "A" as the recommended fluid in
Ford's automatic transmissions, instead of Dexron. "racer myth"
abounds as to use of type "F" in a Dexron transmission to get firm
shifts. But I'm not about to try this on an expensive Torqueflite
transmission which shifts beautifully on new Dexron III. I cannot
recommend this procedure. Stick with what Chrysler says here.

There was also a Type "JD" fluid in the '70s for Furds with "Jatco"
automatic transmissions, but I believe this too has been superseded by
Dexron II and III.

HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART:

The A/AQ-ATF/Dexron fluids are BACKWARDS-COMPATIBLE. That means that all
transmissions that called for Type-A, AQ-ATF, Dexron, Dexron II, Dexron
II-d, Dexron II-e, or Dexron III should now be using Dexron III.

LubriPlate still markets Type-A/Suffix-A fluid. There is no reason to
use it in your Torqueflite, since you get better shifting, less wear, and
much longer fluid life with the newest Dexron. Old clutches in good
condition have no problem with new Dexron. My father's '62 Dodge Lancer
just had its second drink of Dexron. First time was at 20,500 miles with
Dexron II and a new Fram P1651PL original-type in-line trans filter.
Shifted fine until 59,xxx miles when it started popping into Neutral at a
stop light when cold. So, we got a new in-line trans fluid filter and
had the trans fluid changed, bands adjusted and a mild shift kit
installed. The shop used Dexron III, and it works well.

Ralph, I suggest you go ahead and change the fluid and filter (!) and
adjust the bands and cables as per shop manual specs. Also, you'd
probably like the kind of shift kit we now have in both our
Torqueflites. It's not the big, hairy B&M item, rather it's a TransCo.
It makes for a lot less wear on the trans because it eliminates bindup
between 2 and 3. And the trans just feels precise without being harsh.

SL6 Daniel

Frank DuVal
05-18-2015, 07:30 PM
Exactly. Ford changed their spec from Type A to Type F in 1967. Just as GM changed their spec from Type A to Dexron in 1968. Having been using automatic transmissions since that time period, everyone I knew used Dexron (then I, II, III as they became available) in cars that specified Type A and Type A Suffix A, which is GM and Chrysler in the 50s and early 60s (and in addition every European car automatic we serviced).

The statement from Daniel above does not mean Type A was replaced in service by Type F, just Ford started a new fluid line for their 1967 and newer transmissions.