Is this a Studebaker wagon?

[58PackardWagon]

Auction claims it might be a Studebaker wagon. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

http://bid-2-buy.com/wspages/bidbuy194.html

[jclary]

Very frustrating pictures. No closeup of the buggy step. Very often, the steps would have either an "S" for Studebaker or the entire Studebaker name cast in the metal. Also, somewhere under the buggy on the chassis, should be a Studebaker identification tag. I'm not sure when the tags were added, but most I have seen have had them. Without the tag, buggy step, or embossed I.D., it is just another vintage vehicle with a "tale."

[dean pearson]

I looked it over twice and it didn't have a tail,

You're seeing things!

Dean.

[cruiser]

If you can't work it out from the pictures of the actual buggy ,

Studebaker also made "harness" gear so look at the buckles &

belts as the Buckles often had a Studebaker name cast into them .

CRUISER

[Guido]

Pull a wheel, Studebaker would be stamped on the tapered end.

[Commander Eddie]

The wheel and hub construction do not look like Studebaker to me.

[57pack]

And didn't Studebaker constuct their wagon/carriage wheels in a unique way?
Old timer told me that the wheel spoke to rim attachment was different on Studebakers.
Probably pullingl a greenhorn's leg...mine!

[Commander Eddie]

And didn't Studebaker constuct their wagon/carriage wheels in a unique way?
Old timer told me that the wheel spoke to rim attachment was different on Studebakers.
Probably pullingl a greenhorn's leg...mine!

There is a Studebaker Doctor's buggy at the WAAAM in Hood River Oregon and I examined the construction of the wheels on it not long ago. They are definitely different. It was sitting right next to another buggy of about the same vintage and different maker and you could easily see how the Studebaker wheels were of a superior construction. The shoulder of the spokes are broader and provide much more strength. The ones on the buggy in this thread do not look anything like the Studebaker.

[studeclunker]

Well, the vehicle has its original seat-base and that's a great thing! The upholstery even looks consistent (lacking the seat fall though) with original.

There are four places to be sure of Studebaker construction. However, the caveat is that Studebaker also sold parts to the trade, so some of these aren't as reliable as others.
Tags are the most reliable method of identification. Make sure they are original though as many have been added to generic vehicles.
There are four places to locate tags:

The rear of the body box.
The rear axle-cap (the wooden topper on the axle) between the spring straps/U-bolts.
The (usually wood) cross support between the pump-handles (rear cross-member between the metal body supports)
Under the seat cushion, usually attached to the front base stretcher or sometimes rear. These would be round with tack or screw in the middle and will be put there by the office. ie: Chicago, New York, San Francisco, etc...

Less reliable are the hardware locations. These are less reliable for two reasons. Studebaker provided hardware to the industry and parts can be switched from spare parts garnered in a 'bone pile,' and though the Studebaker tagged steps were used exclusively on Studebaker vehicles the Studebaker tagged axles were not.

Steps have four monograms on them (to my limited knowledge):

Studebaker in block characters and in a box format.
Studebaker in block characters and in a diamond format.
Studebaker in script diagonally from front to rear.
The big S in the pad of the step.

These steps were used only in the Buggies and Spring Wagons. It was thought to be gauche to put this kind of thing on the steps of the finer Carriages. Though I have seen two examples where Studebaker did it on a Five-Glass Rockaway and a Beach Wagon Rockaway. The Five Glass had the Platform Gear (no perch) and the Beach Wagon had a three-spring perched gear (like a Surrey). My guess is that the company thought these a more democratic or egalitarian-type vehicle. The step below is on a Park Wagon (upscale Spring Wagon). There was also a rubber-topped step produced from 1900 on, but very few of these have survived.



Lastly and least reliably is in the axles themselves. The monogram (script) can be found on the axle spindles and sometimes midway on the back-side or under the axle. The reason I say this is 'least reliable' is that these axles were sold to the trade and are the most common. For instance, some Kelk and Lane buggies have them. Studebaker even exported wheels, and hardware overseas. The superiority of Studebaker-produced products were recognized world wide.

As to the wheels, I'm not at all surprised they have been switched out. Steel tyres are hard on a wheel. Hence they might have worn out and been replaced after the company shut their doors. Wheels were only expected to last a year or two with constant use. Hence the reason Studebaker was found to be so superior as they lasted quite a bit longer. However, most wheels made now are in the Studebaker pattern (it is, after all, the superior way), so no big deal there really. Also, Studebaker never patented their method. Most antique vehicles are not riding on their original wheels as they were changed out much like we change the tires on our cars. The rubber tyred wheels however, did last considerably longer.

Someone else might have more to say on this subject as I'm in no way an expert and haven't all the information locked in my noggin.
If anyone else is so inclined, do please as I would love to add more identifying characteristics to my list.
If anyone gets a chance to examine this vehicle, do please let us all know. Especially if you can photograph the step, seat base, and axle-spindle.

[jclary]

.... I'm in no way an expert and haven't all the information locked in my noggin.[ATTACH=CONFIG]43611[/ATTACH] ......

OH YEAH...well...I have not met anyone else that can speak "WAGON" better'n you!

[studeclunker]

OH YEAH...well...I have not met anyone else that can speak "WAGON" better'n you!

Thanks for the complement. However, I speak Carriage much better than Wagon. LOL, it's a whole different set of nomenclature for wagons vs Carriages! Still the subject has always interested me. In fact, I did a report (in front of the whole class no less) on the Conestoga Wagon in seventh grade complete with illustrations and brief history of Studebaker, Abbot Downing and I forget the third maker. Got an A on it too! So you can see I was infected with the horse thing very early.

[58PackardWagon]

Excellent feedback!!!!! Especially Studeclunker....thanks for all of the detail. This one is not a Studebaker.