Brakes: Rear brake shoes

[Leroy Cook]

I am replacing the brake shoes on my 62 Hawk. The new shoes are not the same one has more linningthan the other. The manual calls one a primary and the other is secondary. My question is;
does the primarythe one tward the front and is the one with more linning?

[StudeRich]

No, most Bendix Style Brakes like our '54-'66 Wagner Brakes use the Forward Primary (Short) Shoe to actuate the Secondary (Long) Rear Shoe to do most of the work.

The nomenclature may sound contradictory, but that IS how it is.

[Leroy Cook]

Thanks for the info. I found another snap shot that show Secondary shoe toward the rear. And the secondary one is the one with the more linning! The original ones were equal!

[StudeRich]

Glad you figured it out, some re-liners do not pay ANY attention to how they SHOULD be, and Bond or Rivet the Linings on in all different places, also sometimes using BOTH Long ones.

The Original design even calls for Harder Darker Color Lining on the Long Secondary Rear Shoe, and Softer on the Short Primary Forward Shoe and they marked the edges to say PRI/SEC.

I can guarantee you those old shoes are NOT the Original "Factory Shoes" for sure.

[BobPalma]

Thanks for the info. I found another snap shot that show Secondary shoe toward the rear. And the secondary one is the one with the more lining! The original ones were equal!

Leroy, if all four rear shoes you took off had the same amount of lining on them, they were not the car's original shoes. Take a second look: By chance did someone install both primary shoes on one side of the car and both secondary shoes on the other side of the car?

I have seen that and, of course, it will work. It just won't work well and in a panic stop, one wheel is going to lock up before the other one, perhaps throwing the car into a skid.

At any rate, you have it figured out with StudeRich's advice: Shorter linings to the front of the car, longer linings toward the rear of the car. BP

[TWChamp]

I've also seen what Bob just mentioned about putting both primary linings on one side. As Rich said most of the time the primary lining is toward the front. There can be exceptions, but I don't know if Studebaker ever had the exception. I was working on an International years ago and the primary went on the rear. You have to see which lining doesn't rotate because one end of the shoe is against the stop pin. That shoe is the secondary shoe, and in the case of the International, the stop pin was at the bottom of the backing plate.

[RadioRoy]

This discussion/question comes up at least once a year. The bottom line is:

NON-self energizing brakes have the shoe that does more of the work in the front.

Self energizing brakes have the shoe that does more of the work in the rear.

The shoe that does more of the work is the longer/thicker/harder one, whichever applies.

As far as Studebaker CARS are concerned, the NON self energizing system is 53 and older. Self energizing is 54 and newer. The trucks kept NON self energizing brakes longer than the cars did.

NON self energizing brakes have a fixed anchor at the bottom and each shoe has its own adjustment.

Self energizing brakes have a floating arrangement at the bottom between both shoes and a star wheel adjuster.

Self energizing brake shoes rotate slightly when applied and press themselves, (especially the rear shoe) into the brake drum, kind of like a controlled stubbing your toe. Since they jam themselves into the drum, they require less pedal pressure and energize themselves when applied.

[Frank DuVal]

I do not have a Studebaker shop manual except for 1950. Most of my work with Duo-Servo brakes in on GM vehicles. Their shop manuals have the Primary shoe as front and the Secondary shoe as rear. See http://www.corvair.org/chapters/corv...akes-62-63.pdf pages 5-5 and 5-6.

The Primary shoe is shorter lining than the Secondary shoe. The Primary shoe uses the rotational force it gets by touching the drum to push the Secondary shoe into the drum with more force than the wheel cylinder alone.

Similar information can also be found in Motors and Chiltons Unit Repair sections.

Is there a link to a Studebaker shop manual that has the terms reversed?

[StudeRich]

This discussion/question comes up at least once a year. The bottom line is:

NON-self energizing brakes have the primary shoes in the front.

Self energizing brakes have the primary shoes in the rear.

The primary shoe is the longer/thicker/harder one, whichever applies.

As far as Studebaker CARS are concerned, the NON self energizing system is 53 and older. Self energizing is 54 and newer. The trucks kept NON self energizing brakes longer than the cars did.

NON self energizing brakes have a fixed anchor at the bottom and each shoe has its own adjustment.

Self energizing brakes have a floating arrangement at the bottom between both shoes and a star wheel adjuster.

Self energizing brakes rotate slightly when applied and press themselves, especially the rear shoe) into the brake drum, kind of like a controlled stubbing your toe. Since they jam themselves into the drum, they require less pedal pressure and energize themselves when applied.

Roy FYI, this is all a verification of what several of us have already said with a good clarification of the differences between the Star Wheel Adjusted Self Energizing Brake System and the Non-Self Energizing System that is NOT a Subject of this discussion.

However you reversed all three lines of Data in an important statement that destroys all the correct info. The Long Shoe (Rear) is not the Primary Shoe on a Self Energizing System, that is what I meant in Post #2 about it's Name being contradictory.

[RadioRoy]

Well doggone it. I screwed up. This sent me back to my MOTOR'S manual for a good discussion of brake shoes and different braking systems. MOTOR'S is an incredible resource, BTW. Clear pictures and easy to read.

I have apparently been mis-naming the shoes the whole time. MOTOR'S says that the shoe facing the front is the primary/forward shoe and the shoe facing the rear is the secondary/reverse shoe. On the Chrysler systems with two half cylinders, it calls them the front forward shoe and the back forward shoe. How confusing.

Generally, I try not to open my mouth unless I know what I am talking about, but you got me here. My bad.

I will rewrite my first post and see if it makes more sense.

Thanks for keeping me honest, Rich.