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Nox
11-18-2014, 06:19 PM
I was speaking to a Studebaker-friend tonight about an idea I've figured out long ago; that I'm gonna put plates under Josephine to cover all the stuff that collects dirt & to get better aerodynamic & less turbulence & he said it was available for Studebaker's "once upon a time"...
Anyone else knows about that?

Nox
11-20-2014, 03:30 PM
Not one single person at all???
So it might have been a Swedish thing?
?

doug
11-20-2014, 03:53 PM
Saw the original posting and waited to see the answers. I have never heard of any aerodynamic panels or plates available from the factory.

warrlaw1
11-20-2014, 03:55 PM
Well, for off-road or speed trials it makes sense. For a driver it could get in the way of instant repairs at the side of the road. You car, your choice.

t walgamuth
11-20-2014, 04:00 PM
Belly pans came on older Ferraris and Mercedes 300SL....probly on other high end high performance cars too. These were often removed for service and lost so they are a big deal to value. They're pretty simple though and could be remanufactured fairly easily.

Dunno about Studes but seems possible as a dealer installed option in places like Germany where the autobahn was available.

Commander Eddie
11-20-2014, 04:06 PM
Okay, here goes.
My dad owned a '57 Golden Hawk that had what were described as "racing pans" on the underside. According to the folks at Frost & French in Los Angeles these were done at the factory and they only made available on 100 cars. The idea was to create a downdraft or suction under the car so it would not "float" at high speed. It was referred to as the "Bonneville" kit. I can attest that it worked extremely well. In addition to making the car squat at high speed, it had the added benefit of helping the car float in high water. If found this out quite by accident on a stormy night in the San Fernando Valley while driving through a flooded street.
Anyway, I have been surprised that few if anyone on this forum seems to know about this. But, the fact remains, dad's car was so equipped and verified by not only the dealership but by Andy Granatelli who was a friend of my dad's.

Don Kelstrom
11-20-2014, 04:10 PM
Back in the early 1930s Studebaker had splash pans along the bottom of the engine. They quite often were discarded when repairs were made, and it's really hard to find some if the ones on your car are missing. Luckliy they were in place on my 1933 Studebakers.

Nox
11-20-2014, 05:58 PM
Alright Ed (#6), THAT's what my friend referred to!
At last someone who knew something... The thing is that my friend who's been a Studebaker-man all his life also said he remembered it as a factory option. (& even in Sweden, would anyone believe...)
So the next question would ofcourse be if there's any drawings left still...?

& about the "trouble" to remove them by the road I reckon it would be possible to make them pressed in on one side & screwed on the other + not to big pieces.
Like from sill to frame & from frame-inside to frame-inside or such, making sure drive-shaft, rear axel & suspension had free travel-space.
Then on the other hand, if all the mechanical parts are in top-shape good order it would be just like any car under & what do you usually actually DO under your car by the road?

& again: is there any drawings out there?
Or at least descriptions?
Oh, this is interesting!!! :)

skyway
11-20-2014, 06:12 PM
FYI, back in the late 70's/early 80's Turning Wheels published a reprint of an article from a probably 1950's car magazine on hot rodding Loweys.
One of their suggestions was a full belly pan with, I am pretty sure, diagrams.

SN-60
11-20-2014, 07:25 PM
I wonder if these 'Bonneville Racing Pans' are one in the same as the 'sub floor reinforcement boxes', found on '53-'58 Studebaker (K) hardtops...which 'closeout' the normally open areas between the rocker panel lower edge and the frame rails of similar year Studebaker (C) coupes?:confused:

8E45E
11-20-2014, 07:31 PM
The Due Cento had a 'full length belly pan' according to the magazine article in post #74 here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?9715-R5-Avanti/page2&highlight=cento

Craig

SN-60
11-20-2014, 07:36 PM
The Due Cento had a 'full length belly pan' according to the magazine article in post #74 here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?9715-R5-Avanti/page2&highlight=cento

Craig

Craig, we're speaking of '53-'58 Studebaker hardtops here...with the '57 Golden Hawk being in that group. (posts #'s 6 & 8)

8E45E
11-20-2014, 07:50 PM
Lemme see here...Post #7 refers to 1930's Studebakers, and when ever I see Bonneville and Granatelli used at the same time, 1963/4 comes to mind. Who says we can't add ANY Studebaker that came with underbody plates, including TRUCKS??

Craig

SN-60
11-20-2014, 07:56 PM
Lemme see here...Post #7 refers to 1930's Studebakers, and when ever I see Bonneville and Granatelli used at the same time, 1963/4 comes to mind. Who says we can't add ANY Studebaker that came with underbody plates, including TRUCKS??

Craig

You're forgetting about the '32-'33 Studebaker factory 'Indy' entries!....Talk about belly pans!!!

PlainBrownR2
11-20-2014, 08:07 PM
http://www.gen5diy.com/image/cache/data/ZL1%20Stuffs/ZL1%20Belly%20Pan-1-600x600.jpg
I'm guessing that when you were thinking of Studebaker plating, this is probably what came to mind. This is a belly pan for a Camaro ZL1. Studebaker, as far as I know, never had anything this extravagant in production beyond the scoop behind the rear bumper for the '53-'56's, or most Studebakers in general. These belly pans improve the aerodynamics under the car, and work like the Saturn air dams do. They reduce the turbulence in the engine bay, and extend the flat area of the body out under the engine bay. They're used pretty extensively in the high performance and racing vehicles, and work by creating a vacuum under the vehicle and thereby pulling it down at road speed. They also do a wonderful job of cooling if it's engineered right. If you have some time, a large piece of sheet metal, and are willing to carve it out to fit it under the engine, they should be easy to do. Personally, I've been wanting to do one of these for my own '55, but I'd advise adding in some removable sections, or finding a way to drop the pan when it comes time to slide under the car. :cool:

Oh, and the boxes on the C/K hardtops were torque boxes. They had a different function, which was to keep the body from flexing, lol.

Skybolt
11-20-2014, 08:13 PM
Nox,

It's a fine idea and if you happen to come across any drawings I would like to see them also. I have been contemplating doing similar additions to the underside of my Lark, although not for speed trials but for road use. I have seen many cars with covers on the underside and also having most of the mechanical covers, even spring packs with a canvas sleeves. These were all old luxury cars. Using Dutz fasteners, or similar, on the edges and screws on the front side, for safety, would be similar to more modern cars I have. They do a great job keeping things clean and easier to work on once removed.

Good luck,

Len.

SN-60
11-20-2014, 08:15 PM
[QUOTE=PlainBrownR2;

Oh, and the boxes on the C/K hardtops were torque boxes. They had a different function, which was to keep the body from flexing, lol.[/QUOTE]

Actually, the reinforcement boxes were only used on the hardtop models (K bodies),...Not the coupe (C bodies)

8E45E
11-20-2014, 08:16 PM
[IMG]I'm guessing that when you were thinking of Studebaker plating, this is probably what came to mind. This is a belly pan for a Camaro ZL1.

A lot of modern cars now have it for aerodynamics, although the Citroen DS was far ahead of its time and probably the first production car to have a finished underbody for that. I cited the Due Cento as it was a true factory-backed effort to use it to attempt to attain the 'magic' 200 mph.

Craig

PlainBrownR2
11-20-2014, 08:22 PM
Actually, the reinforcement boxes were only used on the hardtop models (K bodies),...Not the coupe (C bodies)


Woo, oh, well, that's a relief. I've been around the cars since 5th grade, and had to replace these mystery boxes under my own '55 hardtop, but thanks, that's good to know! :lol:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/10592178_680662352010688_371684220_n_zpsaaae0092.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/PlainBrownR2/media/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/10592178_680662352010688_371684220_n_zpsaaae0092.jpg.html)

SN-60
11-20-2014, 08:26 PM
Woo, oh, well, that's a relief. I've been around the cars since 5th grade, and had to replace these mystery boxes under my own '55 hardtop, but thanks, that's good to know! :lol:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/10592178_680662352010688_371684220_n_zpsaaae0092.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/PlainBrownR2/media/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/10592178_680662352010688_371684220_n_zpsaaae0092.jpg.html)

Always glad to help & enlighten!:)

Commander Eddie
11-21-2014, 10:17 AM
Lemme see here...Post #7 refers to 1930's Studebakers, and when ever I see Bonneville and Granatelli used at the same time, 1963/4 comes to mind. Who says we can't add ANY Studebaker that came with underbody plates, including TRUCKS??

Craig

My post mentioning Andy Granatelli (#6)was regarding a conversation my dad had with him in about 1965. Andy was evidently well aware of the limited number of '57 Golden Hawks that had been built with the racing pans. The true verification came from Frost & French whose service department used the car's serial number to determine how it had come equipped from the factory. I wish we still had that car. We could have ordered the build sheet.

bezhawk
11-21-2014, 10:56 AM
I wonder if these 'Bonneville Racing Pans' are one in the same as the 'sub floor reinforcement boxes', found on '53-'58 Studebaker (K) hardtops...which 'closeout' the normally open areas between the rocker panel lower edge and the frame rails of similar year Studebaker (C) coupes?:confused:
I think you are exactly right. they may look different from the normal cars of the era, even the non hard top coupes, so I would guess it would be confusing to the un-enlightend.

Commander Eddie
11-21-2014, 12:05 PM
The racing pans enclosed the the bottom from the back of the front fender to the gas tank and from the hog trough to the drive shaft on both sides. It was much more extensive than the "sub-floor reinforement boxes". That is why they worked so well.

8E45E
11-21-2014, 02:11 PM
My post mentioning Andy Granatelli (#6)was regarding a conversation my dad had with him in about 1965. Andy was evidently well aware of the limited number of '57 Golden Hawks that had been built with the racing pans. The true verification came from Frost & French whose service department used the car's serial number to determine how it had come equipped from the factory. I wish we still had that car. We could have ordered the build sheet.

Too bad you don't remember the serial number. It would be interesting to see the build sheet.

Craig

Nox
11-21-2014, 04:06 PM
WOW ! ! !
I sure got you guys going!
Nice to make a difference for a change... but as Commander Eddie easily guessed I'm speaking about a full-underside-plating, not just a "scrape-plate" as we call the engine-protection plate that we swedes usually put on rallycars that jumps around on forest paths...
& just as Skybolt/Len says: it's gonna be for the open road, daily driving even in winter.
So far - so interesting!
& PLEASE KEEP ON ! ! !
Soon enough some ol' racer's gonna show us pictures I reckon... or drawings... or... :)

I've collected some stuff for this already years ago & I'm gonna go alu even thou the weight doesn't matter much down there as Citroen proved even before the D-models with the 2cv = all weight down low!
& the berliner 7 - 15...
The VW beetle also had a quite slippery underside.

SN-60
11-21-2014, 08:09 PM
I think you are exactly right. they may look different from the normal cars of the era, even the non hard top coupes, so I would guess it would be confusing to the un-enlightend.

And I agree with YOU on this one Brad. One hundred '57 Golden Hawks with factory belly pans?...I just can't believe it. Those underfloor boxes are as close as Studebaker ever came to anything like that! (IMHO)