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View Full Version : Avanti bellhousing/engine mount - resolved 4 now



sbca96
10-28-2007, 12:56 AM
I finally got under the Avanti and removed the rear mount, I had been
expecting to see it blown out, rotted or otherwise ruined - but it has
been replaced! I guess when I had the clutch replaced, they must have
replaced the mount .. the problem is, the rear of the engine sits too
low! The stainless steel shrouding is right up against the firewall,
and the tail shaft hits the x-member. I asked Dan to measure his rear
mount so I could compare, and he got 2.5 inches from the bottom of the
crossmember to the cast flats on the front of the bellhousing. When I
checked mine, I came up with just a hair under 2 inches. Jacking up
the engine 1/2 inch makes everything clear correctly. Do I have the
right mount - or is there a spacer for Avantis/convertibles? There are
numbers molded into the rubber :

1552059-60 YELLOW
1552058-40 WHITE AU16
(studs)
1553609-50

Any ideas?

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

StudeRich
10-28-2007, 01:18 AM
1553609 is the correct number for all Manual trans. Larks, Hawks and 4 speed Avantis, I can't imagine them using anything else on a 3 speed because the clutch housing is the same. Did you check the mounting of the crossmember to frame, to see if that is correct? Unless it is quite collapsed, all I can think of is a reject mount! I don't get it either, TOM!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

sbca96
10-28-2007, 02:06 AM
Not knowing what a "good" mount looks like, I took a few pictures of
this one off the car. Its not cracked, it doesnt look blown out or
squashed. Overall it LOOKS to be good.

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96ftp/images/Avantinewimages/TKO_install/rear_mount/Avanti_BellhousingMount_001a.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96ftp/images/Avantinewimages/TKO_install/rear_mount/Avanti_BellhousingMount_002a.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96ftp/images/Avantinewimages/TKO_install/rear_mount/Avanti_BellhousingMount_003a.jpg

The crossmember is bolted directly to the frame, no spacers, it all is
the way it looks it should be :

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96ftp/images/Avantinewimages/TKO_install/rear_mount/Avanti_BellhousingMount_004a.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96ftp/images/Avantinewimages/TKO_install/rear_mount/Avanti_BellhousingMount_005a.jpg

I think I will buy some 1/4 steel tomorrow, and put one piece between
the mount and crossmember, and one between the mount and bellhousing.
The studs are long enough, and that will still keep the crossmember
tucked between the rubber edges.

Tom

N8N
10-28-2007, 06:38 AM
check your parts book, you are supposed to use small spacers between the bellhousing and mount P/N 1548406. I am not sure how thick those are, however, do a search here and on the NG, this was covered a while back when I was doing a 4-speed swap in my '55.

If I were a betting man, I'd guess that those spacers are the thicker ones (lark type) but do a search to verify. You can replicate this with a couple flat washers glued together, or have a machinist make you some once you know thickness.

good luck

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

sbca96
10-28-2007, 10:03 AM
Thanks Nate, if I am to use my dimensions, I would conclude they are
1/2 thick. Judgeing from the length of the bolts into the bellhousing
it would seen they go between the mount and bellhousing like you say.

So perhaps a piece of 1/2 thick steel drilled to the bolt pattern of
the bellhousing would do the trick. I wonder if the "correct" part is
the 1/2 thick round spacer used on the automatic cars?

This also solves my clearance issue with the exhaust manifold hitting
the upper control arm on the passenger side. Rattlevanti!

Tom

sbca96
10-28-2007, 02:01 PM
OK, I found some steel squares with holes at Ace Hardware. I think I
can use one set between the mount and frame, & two doubled up between
the mount and the bellhousing. Thoughts?

Oh .. also .. which way does the mount face?? It seems to have been a
little sprung, pushing the engine forward, with the mount out now its
moved back about a 1/4 inch, but with it up higher it still clears the
firewall better than before. The shop manual picture isnt clear.

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96ftp/images/Avantinewimages/TKO_install/rear_mount/Avanti_BellhousingMountSpacer_001a.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96ftp/images/Avantinewimages/TKO_install/rear_mount/Avanti_BellhousingMountSpacer_002a.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96ftp/images/Avantinewimages/TKO_install/rear_mount/Avanti_BellhousingMountSpacer_003a.jpg

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

sbca96
10-28-2007, 08:04 PM
Nobody?? Nothing else? Nate, JDP, Mike M??? Hello?[B)]

Tom

Alan
10-29-2007, 10:24 AM
Tom, There were not many Avanti's built with 3 speeds. So you are sailing in unchartered waters.

Bob Langer
10-29-2007, 01:30 PM
According to the parts book,the rear mount is the same for 3&4 speed transmissions.It lists spacing washers,but does not give any dimensions.The round spacer is for use on automatics only and on the left side.I have an automatic so I am of no real help to you,but someone with a 4 speed should be able to check for the spacer thickness.

Bob Langer
63 Avanti
Glenshaw,PA
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/100_0062.jpg

sbca96
10-29-2007, 09:52 PM
OK, I think this car hates me, there is no other explanation. The engine
was sitting 1/2 inch too low compared to Dan's dimensions, so I got a
couple pieces of steel and put two between the mount and bell, and one
between the mount and frame on each side. Lowered it down and it was
about 1/2 inch too high?!?!

So I removed one of the plates between the mount and bell, and now its
about an 1/8-1/4 higher than Dan's. You would think that the height
would be directly related to the thickness of the spacer ... but nope!

Was sooooo sore this morning from crawling, swaring and cursing last
night until 2am ... I called in sick today because I couldnt move!

Tom

Sonny
10-31-2007, 11:00 AM
quote:Originally posted by sbca96

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96ftp/images/Avantinewimages/TKO_install/rear_mount/Avanti_BellhousingMount_002a.jpg

Tom,

This mount doesn't look too good to me. From this angle, on the right side, the rubber is separated at the outside and it looks compressed too. The rubber on the right side should look more like the left side. In fact, I think it looks somewhat compressed in the center too.

Unless it had been oil soaked and very obviously coming apart, it's hard sometimes to tell if it's any good. Your call of course, but this is not a new or recently changed mount.

Sonny
http://racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpghttp://RacingStudebakers.com

N8N
10-31-2007, 11:27 AM
I swear there was a thread about this somewhere but I can't find it. anyway if my memory serves correctly the C-K cars have thin spacers and Larks have thicker spacers, but I can't find the dimensions anywhere (someone was kind enough to post them when I needed the spacers for my '55.) If you can find that old post and then find out which part number is the one the Avanti used that might help you determine what is correct.

nate

sbca96
10-31-2007, 03:10 PM
Thanks Sonny and Nate ...

The picture lies, if you look at all the photos you can see the mount
is completely intact and there is no separation. I also thought it
might be compressed, but where did the material go?? The mount is a
new one as far as miles .. years wise its over 10 years old! If my
guesses are correct, and it was changed with the clutch, its got maybe
2000 miles on it .. and yes LOTS of oil to get it this clean!

Tom

Mike Van Veghten
10-31-2007, 03:47 PM
I agree with Sonny.

While I'm not Mike M. ...

That mount in your pictures...appears all but shot to me.
The rubber IS starting to pull away from the steel and the stud is slightly leaning toward the right (per your pictures) and the rubber is heavilly squashed in the center AND right lower corner.
Funny thing digital cameras...they show up details the eye sometimes misses....been there many times!

By your previous statement about picture lieing...sounds like you should just take a few bucks and get a new mount rather than telling people they are wrong. It's you asking for the help, the mounts aren't that expensive!

Along with what ever spacers the manual requires...I see it as a waste of time putting things back together until you get a hold of a new mount.

Just my 3 cents!

Mike

sbca96
11-01-2007, 03:04 AM
Mike, I have actually looked at it up close, the pulling away you see
in the picture is a shadow. The bond is still good. Regardless, the
mount not cheap, S.I. listed it for 200 bucks. Perhaps thats cheap for
the budgets you work with, but I will just keep this mount for now. It
sounds like there are spacers missing, which has caused the engine to
sit too low. Two people already confirmed that. I only need to get
the right combination of .29 cent spacers, not a $200 dollar mount. If
I had a "good" mount (if indeed mine is bad) to measure, I would just
soak this one apart and remold a new one at work before blowing $200.

Tom

Karl
11-01-2007, 06:43 PM
current price is $125 ;)

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/twnchgr/Sac2000.jpg

sbca96
11-02-2007, 03:09 PM
It dropped? Thats good news, but still about $125 more than I need to
spend at this point. Anyone have a picture of a "good" one?

Tom


quote:Originally posted by Karl

current price is $125 ;)

Mike Van Veghten
11-02-2007, 08:22 PM
Plus...the fact that the rubber is pulling away from the steel....now plenty obviously shown in two photos...I'd bet you that $125 that a "proper or good" mount...the two pieces of steel...are on the same plane. That is to say....the "angles" of steel to steel at the top of the mount...are "supposed" to be at the same height....no angles anywhere on that mount!

If this is the way you take care of your cars......................!

Mike

sbca96
11-03-2007, 05:41 PM
Mike .. go bother someone else .. thanks!

Tom

Mike Van Veghten
11-03-2007, 09:39 PM
You take better care...I'll "bother" someone else!
I can't even be close to understanding how you can say that mount is in good condition!!

You gotta learn son.

Mike

P.s. - Sorry if I struck a proverbial "nerve"!

sbca96
11-04-2007, 04:18 AM
I got to thinking since Sonny mentioned it, and I had to reorganize
the spacers anyway, I'd take the mount back off and further inspect it
to see how bad this "pulling back" is. Upon closer inspection with a
pick, there is a slight separation on one side of the mount. Using a
thin piece of metal and something to measure, the crack is less than a
1/4 deep around the perimeter of the one side, the bottom and opposite
side are solid. Rough estimate would be 5% of the total bonding area
is become detached. I equate this to cracked rubber on the suspension
bushings - purely cosmetic. I will keep an eye on it though, it may
start to go south quickly with the TKO installed. I will add it to my
5 year replacement plan. I might have also lost up too an 1/8" due to
some settling in the rubber. With the spacers shuffled around, its in
the same neighborhood as Dan's bellhousing mount.

Yes ... you get on my nerves Mike - like nails on a chalkboard. That
said, it seems that Sonny and you were right, there is a small crack.

Tom

sbca96
11-04-2007, 03:41 PM
Yah .. I thought about adding the R3 mounts and leaving the "lowered"
rear mount, but the front mounts LOOK stock height. Everything seems
to be fine there for now. I think I found a new oil leak too.[V]

Tom