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View Full Version : What color is the the front air dam and area between radiator and grill on a GT Hawk



jackwporter
10-28-2014, 12:45 AM
I am restoring a 64 GT Hawk and am near the end of the restoration. I have had the car painted Avanti Burgundy. A member mentioned that he thought the area in front of the radiator might have been painted black. Of course, I have it painted presently the same color as the rest of the body. Does anyone know more about this. For those of you interested I have brought this car up to full R3 Specs. R3 engine with R3 heads and all the goodies. R3 suspension with radius rods sway bars, hd suspension and R3 A arms (original), the axle is flanged also. It has a 160 speedo and an R3 tach (8000). The car has an original Bonneville gas tank for the hawk (30 gallons) and 1/2 inch fuel line. The restoration has been going on believe it or not for 10 years and is almost finished. I even gotten the original engineering blue prints from Andy Beckman for the air intake and carburetor. I also used the photo of the run at Bonneville to match the crash cage that Paula Murphy used in the car. I have also copied the same identification markings that were used to identify the car as a R3. This will be a stunning car for all to see in the near future. The work is being done by the finest restorer in the Sacramento area.

candbstudebakers
10-28-2014, 01:01 AM
Body color.

StudeRich
10-28-2014, 02:20 AM
Welcome to the SDC Forum.

The area of the lower Hood behind the Center Grille on GT Hawks was Flat Black to hide it, also inside the Lower Air Dam.

We would love to see Pics of it, and more information about your Bonneville R3 '64 GT Hawk clone. :!:

Jerry Forrester
10-28-2014, 07:29 AM
That's what I like about this forum. A person asks a simple question and he gets two answers that are 100% opposite.

candbstudebakers
10-28-2014, 09:53 AM
Rich might be right since he has worked with originals , my self have only had cars that could have them gold plated over the years and all I can remember is body color painted, even my 64 supper hawk was body color. If it was such a simple question then why didn't you answer it?

am not r2
10-28-2014, 10:41 AM
Fred Fox did a write up of the 1964 hawks in '97....This particular question was asked there too....I don't remember the ans. but a quick check by someone with old turning wheels copies can tell you for sure....I have it at home but I will not be there for a while. I know somebody here has a copy....I think Aug. or Sept. Rich

Buzzard
10-28-2014, 10:49 AM
My December 1963 production GT is still in original unmolested paint and the dam and surrounding area is body colour (black).
Bill

Dick Steinkamp
10-28-2014, 10:53 AM
When I did my 63 Hawk several years ago, the clear consensus on the Forum was that the area shown should be semi-flat black...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Hawk%20Restoration/IMG_1190.jpg

...as should the area that shows through the grill on the hood...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Hawk%20Restoration/IMG_1259.jpg

It makes sense from an aesthetic standpoint, but lots of added labor at the time of production.

fpstude
10-28-2014, 11:14 AM
The black interior is covered in a feature article written by Fred Fox in the October 1993 (page 11) issue of TW. He refers to the June 1993 issue of TW (page 16) for pictures of how this was done.

As for the hood latch, the article indicates "The lower hood locking mechanism was also painted the same black color".

Dick Steinkamp
10-28-2014, 11:38 AM
As for the hood latch, the article indicates "The lower hood locking mechanism was also painted the same black color".


Like this?...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Hawk%20Restoration/IMG_1214.jpg

Pat Dilling
10-28-2014, 11:52 AM
Jack,

The Karel Staple Chapter will be displaying some of our Studebakers at the Sacramento Autorama in February. If your car will be ready by then we would love to have it with our cars. We would be sure to display it prominently. Please let me know if you are interested, p.dilling@outlook.com. Aside from that we hope to have join our chapter for future activities. Can't wait to see your car!

Pat

swvalcon
10-28-2014, 11:54 AM
From what I was told as I work on my 64 is Dick has it close to right. The area behind the grille should be flat black and if anyone has seen one with body color where you can see it though the grille it looks like crap. Also the lower val. panel should be flat black where it goes back to the core support. Just the lower area that you see under the car should be body color.

swvalcon
10-28-2014, 12:00 PM
Dick it may not have been that much work at the factory as the only part that needs to be black is from the first grille hole up on the side going down all the rest is covered by the grille.

WCP
10-28-2014, 01:22 PM
Dick, if I recall correctly, the '63 GT that you restored was a Canadian built car and should not have had the blackout treatment, as the Canadian cars were not done that way. Check the back cover of the May 1979 Turning Wheels for a picture of an unrestored '63 Canadian GT Hawk that was shipped to a dealer from the factory in July 1963 for my purchase. Otherwise your restoration was top notch. The car pictured was supplied with the Canadian issued chrome on steel wheel disks and of course sported the non-perforated headliner of Canadian production.

StudeRich
10-28-2014, 02:40 PM
That's what I like about this forum. A person asks a simple question and he gets two answers that are 100% opposite.

That does not happen very often Jerry, and when it does that is one thing this Forum is for, to get enough opinions to make a educated decision as to what is correct or at least in the eyes of the majority.

Often proof is given, and there is a obvious answer.

38773 In this Picture of a original New Car being delivered, you can just barely see the Black inside of the lower Air Dam and also in the side grilles, On '62's, it is hard to tell about the Grille though.

nels
10-28-2014, 03:50 PM
I would say Dick's photos are pretty close, however, the satin black paint in the scoop area doesn't start at the spot weld seam line but rather toward the front leading edge, about a half inch back. Also the four bolts holding the latch in place along with the latch assembly are painted the same black. The two bolts on eithe side of the radiator support that show as virgin clean bolts in Dick's pictures should be body color. The hood cable along with the hold down clamp and screw are virgin plated (silver looking). These observations are after looking at a totally original 63, not 64, full package Hawk. I'm pretty certain the two years were done the same way.
Note: the pictures of the scoop area posted by Dick did not come through on my post,
so look back at his post for reference.



QUOTE=Dick Steinkamp;878996]When I did my 63 Hawk several years ago, the clear consensus on the Forum was that the area shown should be semi-flat black...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Hawk%20Restoration/IMG_1190.jpg

...as should the area that shows through the grill on the hood...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Hawk%20Restoration/IMG_1259.jpg

It makes sense from an aesthetic standpoint, but lots of added labor at the time of production.[/QUOTE]

StudeRich
10-28-2014, 05:42 PM
If you enlarge my '62 Pic THREE times you can clearly see where the Flat Black goes to about 3/4 Inch from the front edge as Nels said.

Jerry Forrester
10-28-2014, 05:43 PM
If it was such a simple question then why didn't you answer it?

Because I didn't know the answer, and still don't. I'm going to wait a few days and then count all the 'body color', flat black', 'satin black', 'gloss black', 'semi gloss black' and burple and then pick one. <G>

Dick Steinkamp
10-28-2014, 07:26 PM
Dick, if I recall correctly, the '63 GT that you restored was a Canadian built car and should not have had the blackout treatment, as the Canadian cars were not done that way. Check the back cover of the May 1979 Turning Wheels for a picture of an unrestored '63 Canadian GT Hawk that was shipped to a dealer from the factory in July 1963 for my purchase. Otherwise your restoration was top notch. The car pictured was supplied with the Canadian issued chrome on steel wheel disks and of course sported the non-perforated headliner of Canadian production.

I've never been a big stickler for originality and was glad I got "permission" to paint those areas black by the forum. I would have done it even if I had known the Canadian cars were not done that way. It just looks better painted.

The same to Nels' excellent observations. I cut the black in where it made the most sense to me and where I thought the natural break would be. I absolutely would not have painted the bolt heads. Not only would have been tough to paint the car with it assembled, but it just looks "cleaner" to me to have semi exposed bolts unpainted.

There are other parts of this car I know are not how it left the factory including the location of the washer bag, AM radio but no antenna (I used an amplified hidden antenna), no bumper guards, etc. I know it's heresy to some, but I just have trouble following a cook book. ;)

To Jerry's point, I think we could argue for days about which flattened black was factory correct on which week from which factory :eek:. I picked one I liked.

nels
10-28-2014, 07:45 PM
The non painted bolts do look better to me also but I was just trying to answer the original question. I know what you mean about satin, matt, flat black etc. I'm really not sure what to call it and if I was restoring a Hawk I doubt I would worry how exact things were. I would try to get it somewhat close, especially if you happen to have a nice survivor standing by.

nels
10-28-2014, 07:50 PM
That does not happen very often Jerry, and when it does that is one thing this Forum is for, to get enough opinions to make a educated decision as to what is correct or at least in the eyes of the majority.

Often proof is given, and there is a obvious answer.

38773 In this Picture of a original New Car being delivered, you can just barely see the Black inside of the lower Air Dam and also in the side grilles, On '62's, it is hard to tell about the Grille though.

I blew that picture up and noticed those period California plates are not black. Is that unusual?

62champ
10-28-2014, 08:08 PM
Few photos of a friend's '64 being taken apart last spring as its restoration got off to a chilly start...

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/IMG_3570_zpsb5cc05bb.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/IMG_3571_zps2ad22d50.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/IMG_20140401_145755579_HDR_zps9336546b.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
10-28-2014, 08:12 PM
I blew that picture up and noticed those period California plates are not black. Is that unusual?

Yellow on black CA plates were used 63-70. Black on yellow plates (like those shown) were used 56-62.

nels
10-28-2014, 10:00 PM
Yellow on black CA plates were used 63-70. Black on yellow plates (like those shown) were used 56-62.

Nice to know.