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garyash
10-15-2014, 05:58 PM
The number of cars for judging and "display only" at International meets has decreased significantly in recent years. It has been suggested that one reason is that many people feel their car isn't up to judging/display standards. Is there a way to counter that feeling? How do we get people to bring any and all Studebakers to the meets and park them on the field? It's good to see original cars to see how the factory did things. It's also good to see less-than-original cars that have been fixed or updated over the years in order to keep driving them. Any Studebakers at all! Let's see the cars that people aren't afraid to drive down a dusty road or through a rainstorm.

One option is to have a separate display-only area for "drivers" if it removes some stigma of direct comparison to the trailer queens. There must be other options, as well. The same dilemma also occurs at zone meets. We would love to see 300 or more "drivers" turn up in Warwick, Rhode Island for the 2016 International meet in addition to the cars for judging and more-formal display.

Your ideas and comments, please.

57studesilverhawk
10-15-2014, 06:35 PM
I'm not sure if a separate segregated area would help. I used to show a Classic MG when I lived in BC, I only got a second place once, all the other time it was a first and once a first overall, Yes a nice feeling that you had done all the necessary restoration work, But then you don't want to get it scratched, dirty, or what ever. When I fixed up my 57 Silver Hawk I did not want a show car, I wanted a driver and that is what I did. I now have another 55,000 miles on the car from the original miles of 67,000 with a broken odometer. I enjoy driving to the Annual meets, I had it in Lancaster PA, South Bend IN, Cedar Rapids, Spokane WA, Omaha NB. Sometimes it decided not to cooperate with this old man, so I had to take brand X. But to me the fun of the MEET is DRIVING their, then meeting all my Studebaker friends. If at all possible I want to have it there next year as well, Yes its a long distance, but anything worth while takes an effort on our part. I enjoy taking the pictures for Turning Wheels, I enjoy putting on the supper slide show, This is all fun , but driving their in a 1957 Studebaker Silver Hawk 6 cly. is the best part, as long as the over drive will continue to work..

jbwhttail
10-15-2014, 07:00 PM
Gary:

First let me say that the referense of "trailer queen" is offensive. Those of us who choose to restore a car to "showroom quality" must protect our investments! Yes....... our cars are restored beyond what was produced on any given date. But has the SDC investigated the availability of period correct paints? Not available are they? When I restore,purchase, any car I look at the investment vs return, commonly known as ROI (Return On Investment). Very rarely will a "driver" get an "ROI".

Now to your post on how to get more Display vehicles........ Include them in the registration price. Person who registers for the meet gets one(1) car on the field as a display car. Display cars need to be included in the jugding classes in year /body specific, don't place the daily driver as modified or custom unless they want judged in those classes .

There is not any "looking down the nose" at driver cars, what we "Trailer Queen" owners are looking for is perfection.

If you want to have seperate displays what you are exploitng is those who "Have" and those who "Have Not".

Allow each registrant to enter one vehicle in the display/class they choose as part of the registration price. Judging is extra.

NO car (Studebaker) should be left in the spectator parking lot!

garyash
10-15-2014, 07:27 PM
Sorry, no offence intended. I think we all recognize that it's nice to have a car that is perfect, and it won't stay that way if it's driven very far. It's great to see 400 point cars at the meets and reward the work with a trophy.

Actually, I don't think there currently is a charge for "display only" cars at International meets. Only cars to be judged pay a fee. I'm just trying to figure out how to encourage people to bring any old Studebaker and park it on the display field. We may have to offer a free plate of clamcakes or some other Rhode Island delicacy at Warwick in 2016 to induce people to come and bring a car or more.

Chris Pile
10-15-2014, 07:41 PM
Gary, there is a different reason for the lower numbers of judged cars... many members are sick and tired of missing all the fun while they wait for the judges. Further to that, judging consistency from meet to meet has rankled the feelings of many members. You know it's true.

I predict that one day soon SDC meets will be like Hudson meets - no judging, and maximum fun! You can still have trophies for choice, etc., if someone has to haul home some hardware. Many chapters do this at Zone and Fun meets - no reason why it won't work great at an International Meet.

2R5
10-15-2014, 07:42 PM
Sorry, no offence intended. I think we all recognize that it's nice to have a car that is perfect, and it won't stay that way if it's driven very far. It's great to see 400 point cars at the meets and reward the work with a trophy.

Actually, I don't think there currently is a charge for "display only" cars at International meets. Only cars to be judged pay a fee. I'm just trying to figure out how to encourage people to bring any old Studebaker and park it on the display field. We may have to offer a free plate of clamcakes or some other Rhode Island delicacy at Warwick in 2016 to induce people to come and bring a car or more.

Gary , I do think they charge a smaller fee for display vehicles , but not 100 % sure.
Maybe there should be some kind of a souvenir, so to speak, for people who bring Studebakers that the others don't receive without a Studebaker.
Personally , I feel that people who don't drive a Studebaker to an International are missing out on the best part :D

Corvanti
10-15-2014, 08:22 PM
maybe a "concours" area for the "trailer queens" to fight it out for recognition (?)...

as it has been stated numerous times, we (SDC) are a "Drivers Club". the club should have judging based on the ability to run, drive and stop, as well as other conditions based on the category the vehicle has entered.

i have no problem with those that have the means to make their Studebaker better than when they left the factory. a short trip off a trailer in the parking lot on site doesn't seem to me to be a "driver".

just my $0.02...:)

JRoberts
10-15-2014, 08:38 PM
Originally I had heard that the Dover IM would separate vehicles to be judged and those for display only. I am glad it did not turn out that way. If the two are separated as one who chooses to display his car because it is not of the quality it would take to be judged, I would feel left out. I think too that judging is inconsistent. I know it is hard to find good judges sometimes, but from what I have seen over the years judging at one meet is many times not as strict as at other meets. I imagine if I were ever to have a car good enough to be judged, I would still only put it on display. More fun that way in my mind.

I seem to be seeing more and more people coming to IM's who are not bringing a Studebaker at all. That is something that really bothers me. The best thing about the Dover IM for me was to have Studebaker only tours. I believe these might help to increase the number of Studebakers at the IM meets. I notice there is no mention of Studebaker driving tours in St. Louis. Too bad.

rockne10
10-15-2014, 09:13 PM
With no research to corroborate my thoughts, vehicle attendance may well be determined more by geography and population density than by judging policies or vehicle conditions.
Let's assume it a given that, if our International Meet is on the east coast (Dover or Warwick) there will be few vehicles arrive from further east; equally, if in Long Beach or Seattle, there will be few driven from further west.
The current center of U.S. population density is Plato, MO.
Lancaster '08 was very well attended, as was Springfield '11; while Glendale '10 was a long hot drive for many; and South Bend is always a draw.
Geography and population density will always be a major factor.
That given, it is critical that every interested party has the opportunity to make it to a regionally achievable International Meet.
There are darned few of us who can afford to show up every year at every meet at whatever the cost. Otherwise, we would be owning Hispano Suizas.
The quality of the camaraderie is the memory that will be taken home; not the attendance numbers.

Guido
10-15-2014, 09:36 PM
I think the aging club demographics are also in play here as well. People want the convenience, comfort and reliability of modern cars and many older people are coming for the camaraderie rather than the Studebaker driving experience to and from the event. That is why I have taken horse drawn vehicles to meets, I can travel in comfort in a brand X and still win a trophy once I get there.

stude1964
10-15-2014, 10:57 PM
My Dad and I always mentioned about "half the fun is getting there". We always drove a Stude to a meet unless there was salt here on the East coast! We always respected and appreciated the restored cars as they gave us an incentive to bring back some of our cars that were in storage.
Rob in PA.

StudeRich
10-15-2014, 11:03 PM
I am not convinced that the poor judging at IM's or not having a Driver Class have as much to do with the decline as the aging Membership and the cost and distance for many of us.

JoeHall
10-15-2014, 11:11 PM
Perhaps a class titled, "Honest To Goodness Driver", with certain qualifiers included, e.g. documented 10,000 miles or more in the past 1 year.

I appreciate all Studes: concours, TQs, drivers, projects, etc.. Also, agree with Gary, it would be nice to see more Studes at the IM, no matter the class.

Since around 1989, I have attended around 10 International Meets, and several other Stude meets and functions, but never drove anything but a Stude to any of them. I usually park in the spectator parking lot. Even if parked with display vehicles, I never raise the hood. The motor gets de-greased about every 50,000 miles, so is usually pretty filthy, and with miscellaneous cobb-o-jobs glaring, the underhood would be laughable to many. About 99 percent of other Studes there look nicer, but I doubt any would be more reliable, and that is most important to me.

As for me, to attend a Stude meet or function in a brand x would be akin to going to a Harley rally on a moped. But I understand others have their own reasons for doing so, and respect that. To each their own.

Yea, maybe an "Honest To Goodness Driver" class.... :)

Milaca
10-15-2014, 11:26 PM
I feel that the "display" class serves the same purpose as would a "drivers" class.
My Studebakers are not show cars but I occasionally drive one to meets in my area (within 300 miles of home) and show them in the display class.
When meets are farther away, I prefer to haul a Studebaker on a trailer and ride in the comfort of a modern, reliable pickup truck that has a very comfortable seat and room in the back to haul newly acquired parts from the meet (I hauled a Stude to South Bend in 2012, about 600 miles from home).
Driving a Studebaker a long distance can be uncomfortable and can be very uncertain if the car sees very little use each year. Not many have a tow vehicle and trailer, so hauling a car may not be an option. I believe this leads many to drive a modern vehicle to the meets.
I cant think of any incentives that will bring more Studebakers to meets....although some people will do anything for a free dinner. :)

JoeHall
10-15-2014, 11:31 PM
I feel that the "display" class serves the same purpose as would a "drivers" class.
My Studebakers are not show cars but I occasionally drive one to meets in my area (within 300 miles of home) and show them in the display class.
When meets are farther away, I prefer to haul a Studebaker on a trailer and ride in the comfort of a modern, reliable pickup truck that has a very comfortable seat and room in the back to haul newly acquired parts from the meet (I hauled a Stude to South Bend in 2012, about 600 miles from home).
Driving a Studebaker a long distance can be uncomfortable and can be very uncertain if the car sees very little use each year. Not many have a tow vehicle and trailer, so hauling a car may not be an option. I believe this leads many to drive a modern vehicle to the meets.
I cant think of any incentives that will bring more Studebakers to meets....although some people will do anything for a free dinner. :)
I would like to see the display and driver classes separated. Many spectators assume display cars are all drivers, and that is a very inaccurate assumption.

Xcalibur
10-15-2014, 11:39 PM
Apart from anything else, judging, lack of, etc. is to have the meets where the greatest number of cars are. Statistically, a greater number will likely show up, pure and simple. The "club" is old (and not getting any younger) and every year even less likely to go long distances and deal with hassles during and after arriving. Also, whomever is in charge of meet sign-in--and the entire process of dealing with those who have brought cars, trailered, driven, or otherwise--needs to act in ways that help owners feel they are appreciated for showing up with vehicles. This is not always the case. I trailered a car to a national meet and there was absolutely no parking for a truck and trailer at the registration area. I and a friend with another trailered car had to park several blocks away in what seemed like an abandoned/over-grown basketball court on a residential side street, only to be hollered at as we got out of our trucks. Oh, I've other examples, but I'm sure you get the point. And, I've never been back to another meet.

60ragtop
10-16-2014, 12:06 AM
I agree with StudeRich on this one. As the guy in charge of setting up the show field at Dover, I had been told by some to expect in the neighborhood of 400 plus vehicles. As the registrations progressed, I could see we were nowhere close to that and wondered whether a big slug of cars would show up out of the blue during the meet week. Well, that didn't happen and we wound up with 255 vehicles. I found that surprising and disappointing based on the number of Studes there are within a 300 mile radius of Dover, including many with which I'm familiar. All I have is anecdotal evidence from random conversations with people I know who didn't bring/drive a Studebaker to the meet. One theme from those conversations seemed to be a lack of interest in getting into a hot, unairconditioned, noisy car then dealing with traffic, the threat of breakdowns, etc. These are people who, ten years ago, made trips like this a couple of times a year. So I think age has something to do with it. And I can understand that, turning 72 this month, and knowing that I've lost some of the zest I used to have for this stuff. For example, I've thought about the trip I'll have to make to Warwick in '16. I love driving my Studes over here on the Delmarva Peninsula where we have lots of light or moderate traffic on back roads as well as most of the highways here (at least in the off-season). But Warwick is a different kettle of fish, one involving getting through or around the Philly and New York metro areas, turnpikes, toll booths, speeding semis, distracted commuters, and so on, and I'm not looking forward to that drive. But I'll likely be there. After all, this is what I do.

As for separating display only cars from cars to be judged, this unnecessarily complicates the layout of the field. That would mean either putting the display cars in an entirely separate area or within a division trying to keep one end of a row, lets say, for judged cars with the rest for drivers. Either way, this is more work for the parking attendants and leads to confusion. We never considered doing this at Dover and I'm not aware of any complaints in that regard.

48skyliner
10-16-2014, 01:19 AM
I suspect a lot of the drivers on this forum are retired like me, and don't drive 50-100 miles a day. I have six vehicles currently registered and they are all "daily drivers". I don't think I am driving 10,000 miles a year, though I may be close, and certainly no more than 3,000 miles in any one vehicle. I drive my truck, my SUV, my Stiletto three wheeler, my Geo or one of my sports cars depending on the weather and what I need to carry. I have attended many car shows in the past 15 years, and the past 5 years with the Stiletto. The Stiletto has never been judged because no one knows what category to put it in. But I don't go to win a trophy, and I couldn't care less. I build all my cars to drive, with emphasis on performance, handling, braking, reliability and ease of maintenance.

I have been involved in the judging in the past few years for a local car show that has grown to more than 250 cars judged, including some of the best customs, street rods, and restored classics in the Northwest. Judging is a real hassle when there are so many nice cars. I like the scheme a friend of mine described after attending a car show in Montana, as I recall - several hundred cars, some of very high quality. There were three judges, each was given a trophy to be awarded as he saw fit to a car, truck or motorcycle. He said everyone seemed satisfied with the judging.

Speaking of "trailer queens", a friend of ours drove his Buick GN about 30 miles to our car show, and then drove it home. This car had recently run a quarter mile at 7.72 seconds, 175 mph.

avantilover
10-16-2014, 03:03 AM
Personally, I think it'd be easy to place a card under the windshield with a D for display only, a J for cars entered in judging and an AA or AS for Automotive Art or Automotive Sculpture, namely one of those no longer driven vehicles. As for Trailer Queens, all well and good providing they can be started and driven. It seems to me if that is not so at whatever show, whatever make of vehicle, that vehicle is now an Objet d'art - that is a piece of Automotive Sculpture and no longer a "vehicle" in the sense of a means of transport. That piece of Automotive Sculpture can't or perhaps won't be started or driven, which to me at least, is the point of having a vehicle, namely transport - I want to go somewhere and a vehicle is what I use, something no longer capable of doing so by choice of the owner should go in an Automotive Art category.

Just my opinion.

unclemiltie
10-16-2014, 08:09 AM
Originally I had heard that the Dover IM would separate vehicles to be judged and those for display only. I am glad it did not turn out that way. If the two are separated as one who chooses to display his car because it is not of the quality it would take to be judged, I would feel left out. I think too that judging is inconsistent. I know it is hard to find good judges sometimes, but from what I have seen over the years judging at one meet is many times not as strict as at other meets. I imagine if I were ever to have a car good enough to be judged, I would still only put it on display. More fun that way in my mind.

I seem to be seeing more and more people coming to IM's who are not bringing a Studebaker at all. That is something that really bothers me. The best thing about the Dover IM for me was to have Studebaker only tours. I believe these might help to increase the number of Studebakers at the IM meets. I notice there is no mention of Studebaker driving tours in St. Louis. Too bad.

Joe, they heard earlier on the forum of the desire for driving tours in St. Louis and they are working on putting at least one together. ASC seems to always have a driving tour but I personally was not aware of SDC having them.

Captain Billy
10-16-2014, 08:32 AM
We have driven to a bunch of Studebaker Meets and a many "other" car shows, we are never judged, too lazy to clean the car really. For us the fun is mostly in getting there. That is not to say we don't have fun at the show...we certainly do, Studebaker people are an entertaining and informative bunch.

You live in a land with thousands of roads, surprisingly many without tolls, semi's or centre dividers, and believe it or not you can get just about anywhere without spending too much time on an interstate. I also know that time can be a precious commodity that's why we choose to enjoy the road trip and spend fewer days at the meets.

I can't answer Gary's question, we all have our reasons for not bringing the Stude to a show, I would like to suggest an additional line on the display card, that of 'Mileage Driven to Show'. I'd also like to see a few points added to those judged cars who where driven to the show and still compete head to head with those that aren't.

As Joe Hall, Bob Barrick have articulated, getting there in a Studebaker in any condition is half the fun, making it home is the other half.

See you in Warwick Gary.

Skybolt
10-16-2014, 09:16 AM
Gary: ...When I restore,purchase, any car I look at the investment vs return, commonly known as ROI (Return On Investment). Very rarely will a "driver" get an "ROI"...

That depends on how you quantify and qualify the return. For me being able to drive my Studebaker hard and for long distances means that it has returned the investment of time and money. So a driver to me returns more than a show car. I'm not saying that I don't appreciate a show car but it's not why I buy and drive a Studebaker. For me it enables me to express myself in ways that returning a car to showroom condition does not.

Having shows that bring them all together is great and having people put their Studebaker on display, no matter what condition, is a wonderful idea and I would like to put mine in amongst the mix. On display but not for judging. I guess if I didn't have to pay to display it would be an encouragement.

Len.

pinehurstbob
10-16-2014, 09:18 AM
Agree with Captain Billy. I have had my 2 Studes judged 4 times and achieved my personal judging goals. Will drive my Studes to future meets, as I have in the past, and display them proudly. I do have to admit that driving my Stude to Sacramento in 2003 (a distance of 3000 miles one way) and finding that there was no long distance award was a little disappointing. I would suggest that all future meets have 2 long distance awards: 1 for driving a Stude, and 1 for Brand X. This accentuates the "drive" in the SDC as I believe we "drivers" are in the majority. I love viewing a "trailer queen", I just will never own one. If I can't drive it, I don't want it. There my$.02 worth.

Bob
64 Daytona & 60 Lark Convert

Bill Pressler
10-16-2014, 09:36 AM
Amazing!…..thought we had established that "trailer queen" is an offensive and insulting term. And yet…..a few posts later…..people are still using it. And we wonder why attendance is down?

I enjoy looking at all of 'em, including (or maybe especially), "trailer queens". If the owner of such a car doesn't look down on owners and displayers of 'drivers', why on Earth would someone criticize him? I'll never understand that. I don't look down at people below or above me. Having an inferiority complex gets nobody anywhere IMHO.

JoeHall
10-16-2014, 09:47 AM
Without further regression toward adolescence, with name calling and mud slinging, I will try to restate an answer to the OP's question:

Include more recognition and accommodation for those who drive Studes to events, equal to that given to other classes. It is a shame when Studes are found in the spectator parking lot. Drivers should be encouraged to park in an area designated just for them (not the "display" area).

I agree, it is nobody's business how anyone else arrives at a SDC meet. I never ask, unless a person starts pointing out things "incorrect" on my car. At that time, I usually ask politely, "where is yours?" The answer is most always the same: home undergoing restoration, sitting on blocks, or something along those lines. Even then I am usually still polite, and simply walk away, leaving the person talking to himself.

While many are aware what is required to achieve concours class, many others have no clue what it takes to keep a Stude on the road now days. Conversations with honest to goodness drivers at Stude functions may help round that out. But if there isn't even a place for us to park, oh well...

OK, maybe 5,000 miles per year? :D

pinehurstbob
10-16-2014, 09:47 AM
Sorry to have offended any one. This was not my intention. In fact I would not know how to describe that class of car without using it. What term should be used if I need it is needed for future discussions.
My apologies to anyone I have offended.
Bob
64 Daytona & 60 Lark Convert

paul shuffleburg
10-16-2014, 10:17 AM
Even though I'm not a fan of "Trailer Queens" I don't criticize those that are. As far as an RIO my cars have returned $100,000 in enjoyment
this year alone. Having separate classes for drivers and trailer queens I don't believe that it is necessary since the cars aren't competing
against each other but rather for total points. Yes, getting there is half the fun especially when you caravan with other Studes. Two years ago
it took us two and a half days on back roads to travel 1000 miles to South Bend and this year it was a day and a half to Dover. On Thursday I
park my car on the field, stick my "Display Only" card on the windshield and have the rest of the day to enjoy all the other cars and their owners.

2R5
10-16-2014, 10:20 AM
[QUOTE=JoeHall;876380]Without further regression toward adolescence, with name calling and mud slinging, I will try to restate an answer to the OP's question:

Include more recognition and accommodation for those who drive their Studes to events, equal to that given to other classes. It is a shame when Studes are found in the spectator parking lot. Each driver pulling in should be encouraged to park into an area designated just for them (not the "display" area).

Joe , regarding your comment about cars parked in spectator parking , I really think it because those people didn't want to pay the meet registration more so than any other reason . I've seen this for years and this is a big problem for the SDC in trying to fund these Internationals.....some people are just too damn cheap !

JoeHall
10-16-2014, 10:26 AM
If that is the case, SHAME on those folks. I cannot recall ever going to a Stude event without paying.

However, the last zone meet I went to did not even have a windshield card for any other than show cars. I insisted they give me something, so was given a show car card, which I wrote across in big letters, "DO NOT JUDGE" to appease the giver. So drivers were an afterthought at that meet. Heck, if it keeps going the way its going, drivers may soon need to bring their own windshield cards :(


[QUOTE=JoeHall;876380]Without further regression toward adolescence, with name calling and mud slinging, I will try to restate an answer to the OP's question:

Include more recognition and accommodation for those who drive their Studes to events, equal to that given to other classes. It is a shame when Studes are found in the spectator parking lot. Each driver pulling in should be encouraged to park into an area designated just for them (not the "display" area).

Joe , regarding your comment about cars parked in spectator parking , I really think it because those people didn't want to pay the meet registration more so than any other reason . I've seen this for years and this is a big problem for the SDC in trying to fund these Internationals.....some people are just too damn cheap !

studebaker-R2-4-me
10-16-2014, 10:32 AM
Amazing!…..thought we had established that "trailer queen" is an offensive and insulting term. And yet…..a few posts later…..people are still using it. And we wonder why attendance is down?

I'm totally amazed that calling a "spade a spade" and a "trailer queen a trailer queen", is an offensive and insulting term. Calling a car a "Trailer Queen" has NOTHING to do with the lower attendance at Studebaker Meets.

When cars show up a meet and are driven off a trailer 10 minutes before they are displayed and then driven off the field into the trailer when the first sign of a rain cloud appears or driven back into a trailer two minutes after the show is over, what do you expect them to be called,... a retirement investment?

Who cares anyway? It's the person's car, their money and their choice. I like driving my cars and pounding the crap out them, my car, my money and nobody elses business what I do with my cars.

I am sure if I had a 400 point restoration car I would do the same and try to keep it that way for as long as possible, and yes I would call my car a trailer queen because that is exactly what it is.

As far as getting more cars to the International Meet it's all about the demographics and the aging population of this car club. These cars are not easy to drive comparing to a modern car and understand why our members are driving their brand X's to the meets. To many now, it is about the relationships of old freinds getting together not about getting a Studebaker to a meet.

Let's face it, when I get up to being over 70 years old, I don't want anything to do with changing a fuel pump, waterpump or even a leaking carb float at the side of the road and lot's can go wrong when you are driving a 50 year old car more than a few hundred miles.

I really don't think there is an answer to this thread, the long standing members are getting older and new blood is not replacing the membership. I will be totally surprised if there will even be a International Meet in 10 more years.

Something to ponder; Why was a vendor at Dover selling and displaying mobility carts at the swap meet?


Allen

rodnutrandy
10-16-2014, 10:35 AM
My 2 cents. I drove my modified M5 to the 2012 International meet . Since I had to take off work , I left on Thursday morning to get their. I didn't sign up to be judged since I wasn't sure when I would arrive and heard judging was on Thursday . My biggest disappointment wasn't I didn't get judged, I was disappointed that after getting their on Thursday and enjoying Friday , went to fair grounds on Saturday only to find no one was their . Here was the day most people could come, and I hoped to be able to meet and talk to others witch was hard to do while the speakers were blaring previous days . If I had understood the meet , I would have came in earlier and left Friday night ,

Timj
10-16-2014, 10:59 AM
Here are a couple of thoughts from a Newbie. First, have more weekend events at the national so those of us who still have to work can attend easier and secondly park all cars in the same field and area. Those who wish to have their cars judged can simply place a special colored entry form under the windshield wiper. This will allow spectators to see our cars in various stages of restoration and use. I know many like the trophies, but I enjoy getting to talk with others on how I fixed or can fix our cars to keep them going. The thumbs up signs, can I take a pictures and remembered stories are my trophies. My car is driven daily and she will never be a museum piece to others, but she is to our family.

sals54
10-16-2014, 11:29 AM
Sorry to have offended any one. This was not my intention. In fact I would not know how to describe that class of car without using it. What term should be used if I need it is needed for future discussions.
My apologies to anyone I have offended.
Bob
64 Daytona & 60 Lark Convert

Bob,
Never apologize for the truth. If the owner of a trailer queen is offended, thats his problem. Trailer queen is not an offensive term. And a trailer queen car is not offensive either. They are works of art and should be treated as such. Drivers are drivers. I don't know why so many folks get their shorts in a wad over such things.

Pat Dilling
10-16-2014, 11:43 AM
While I realize it is a different discussion, I agree with Randy about having the meets spanning a week-end, or at least with the concours day on Saturday. In deference to those who find the term trailer queen offensive we could simply refer to them as trailered vehicles, though I am weary of the constant assault of political correctness that has become so prevalent today. There are lots of reasons to tow a vehicle to a meet or drive one there. It is a matter of personal choice and we should all be fine with that. As for incentives for folks to put their cars on the field, judged or not, maybe some form of recognition for doing would help. I know that at the banquets it is mostly about the judged cars. How about a sticker of some sort in the goody bag that says "I showed my Studebaker at the 52nd International Meet" or something like that for all people who sign up to have their car on the field, judged or displayed? Perhaps at the banquet the MC would ask all those who brought a Studebaker to the meet to stand and be recognized, then those who drove their cars and also those who had them judged. I agree there should not be a charge to display your car as there is little to no expense to the organizers for a displayed car. The cost for judging usually is there to cover the cost of the awards and meals for the judges and that is fair and reasonable. I think various means of encouragement to put non-judged cars on the field might also help. A simple statement on the registration form, "We want to see your Studebaker" and encouragement from the check in staff might help too. As for those who show up and enjoy the meet without registering, all I can say is "Shame on you." That said, I realize that there may be local folks who may only be able to attend for one day due to work schedules or other commitments, and I mean no offense to you. (See comments on having the concours on Saturday.) For those there should a "day charge" to visit the swap meet or seminars. Most swap meets have an entrance charge as well as one to sell. Also I have noticed that displayed cars have had their pictures in Turning Wheels in recent years and I think that helps.

Dan White
10-16-2014, 12:14 PM
Being also a proud Hudson owner I can tell you that even without having ever having judging at the National meets we have a great number of cars show up and relative to the size of the club probably a higher percentage than the SDC has show up. I like to bring one of my Hawks to the SDC meets and have it judged just to find out what the current crew of judges sees I am missing or have changed, but I would show up just the same with my car if it was not judged, just because I like to see the other Stude folks and have a good time! Isn't that what we are there for anyway, fellowship and fun? If the only reason you attend a meet is to have your car judged you probably are in the club for the wrong reasons.

Just a note. I was hoping that we could avoid political correctness hitting the forum and our hobby, but I guess I was wrong. Just who decides a term is offensive is the person that says they are offended and that often is a personal problem. Frankly I wish I had the time and money to own a "trailer queen" and if I did I would proudly bring it to meets. Are we going to now find "Rust Bucket", "Barn Find", "Jalopy", "Restorod", "Ratrod", "Daily Driver"... offensive I am sure that someone with a Trailer Queen that had their car called a Driver would be offended!!!! Frankly, I don't give two hoots if you are offended, unless I make an error about something, you will not get any apologies from me if you are offended! We have all been in this hobby for many years and we all know what these terms mean and how they are applied. Somehow it seems that the whole country has become thin skinned and will find something to be offended by one way or another, man up and move on!

garyash
10-16-2014, 12:38 PM
Brad Johnson (Rockne10) referred to the effects of distance and population density on the number of people and cars we get at International meets. I've spent a lot of time in the last month or so analyzing the attendance at meets over the last 10 years. I have been focusing only the last 5-6 years to predict what will happen at future meets. Brad is correct: the number of people and cars increases when the meets are nearer to the center of the population. The distribution of SDC members in the U.S. is about like the rest of the census data from 2010. Clearly, SDC members like to go to South Bend for many reasons and 68% of SDC members live within 1000 miles of South Bend. That contrasts with only 26% of SDC members living within 1000 miles of the Glendale, AZ meet. Typically, more than 90% of the Studebakers at the meet come from within 1000 miles of the meet and about half the cars come from within 300 miles. So, here are the numbers for many of the meets in a PDF file (click on it to open):
38499

I also looked at how many people attended SDC International meets on a repeat basis. I took the 2012 meet in South Bend and compared the attendee list with Dover (2014), Colorado Springs (2013), Springfield, MO (2011), and Cedar Rapids, IA (2009). I haven't done the data for Glendale yet. I used "registrants" as a measure; this includes everyone else in the family who attended. There were 1188 registrations in South Bend and a total of 2446 people registered plus 645 cars (SDC, ASC, & AOAI). Of the 1188 registrants, 665 of them didn't go to any of the other 4 meets. However, 293 of the registrants went to three or more meets and 69 of those went to all 5 meets. At any one of the other meets, about half of the registrants had been in South Bend in 2012. So, there is a group of SDC members who go to many of the meets, even if they are far from home. Here's that data:


REGISTRANTS

Dover 2014

Colo. Springs 2013

Springfield 2011

Cedar Rapids 2009



SB 2012 and meet

222

245

298

287



meet registrants

491

612

572

682



% of registrants

45.2%

40.0%

52.1%

42.1%



SDC registrants

451

515

539

584



% SDC registrants

49.2%

47.6%

55.3%

49.1%






South Bend 2012

1188



SDC reg's at SB 2012

987




83%






5 meets

69



4 meets

86



3 meets

138



2 meets

227



1 meet-SB only

665

SN-60
10-16-2014, 01:00 PM
Just wanted to add that I for one would like to see the International meets NOT held in July or August...It just gets too darned hot & humid in those months! I went to SB in '07 and enjoyed it immensley EXCEPT for the 90-100' temperatures at the Mifflin County Fair Grounds. May/June or Sept/Oct would get more people 'out there' on the road (and to the big meet) in their Studebakers. The kids finished school many years ago, and 'summer vacation time' isn't as relavant as it used to be.

Chris_Dresbach
10-16-2014, 02:01 PM
This topic has been on my mind since before the SB 2012 meet after I came home from the Springfield meet.
Personally I don't think there is one right answer to get more vehicles on the show field but I think there are multiple contributing factors as to why they DON'T show up.
Location of the meet is a big one. Let's just face the fact that a South Bend meet will always be bigger than an IM anywhere else because this is where Studebakers were built and the museum is here.
Another reason is time of year. Part of the reason I didn't go to the IM last year is because it was over the 4th of July. Honestly I don't want to be out of town and away from family during a holiday. I also had the county fair going on at that time. Personally I think the best time of year to have it is in August or September and have the concourse on Saturday.
And another reason is that people don't want to go very far driving their Studebakers. Now before I get jumped all over for saying that members of the SDC don't drive their cars, let me say this: I'm 20 and would feel perfectly fine driving my hard, bench seat Lark from one end of the country to the other and would feel physically fine when I got there. Who else here over 65 feels the same way? Didn't think so.
And finally, I've heard a lot of people say that they don't feel that their Studebaker is worthy of being on a concourse show field. We need to break that way of thinking and encourage that all Studebakers are welcome at any SDC meet regardless of condition.

StudeDave57
10-16-2014, 02:08 PM
I've heard a lot of people say that they don't feel that their Studebaker is worthy of being on a concourse show field. We need to break that way of thinking and encourage that all Studebakers are welcome at any SDC meet regardless of condition.

DING DING DING--- and we have a winner!!!

If I had a penny for every time I've had someone tell me that-
I'd have a garage full of trailer queens myself!!!
But in the meantime-
I'm pretty happy with my drivers, thanks. ;) :!:

john Mitchell
10-16-2014, 02:45 PM
A lot of good ideas have been voiced so far.
Let me add that SDC'ers want to view as many Studes as we can at any event either being judged or displayed . Also, it is important that we expose the non Stude world to our cars. I agree we need more driving tours,maybe even more than one.For example, last year in Colorado Springs driving tours could have been held to the Garden of the Gods,Manitou Springs,the Broadmore hotel,old Colorado city and many more.Anyone driving a Stude can sign up for these tours FREE. No lunch will be provided but locations to eat will be recommended. All it would take is a local person being the tour director.The negative being these might pull people away from paying tours that are for profit.No brand x's allowed.Free tours just for bringing a Stude anyway you can to the IM.

8E45E
10-16-2014, 02:48 PM
As far as getting more cars to the International Meet it's all about the demographics and the aging population of this car club. These cars are not easy to drive comparing to a modern car and understand why our members are driving their brand X's to the meets. To many now, it is about the relationships of old freinds getting together not about getting a Studebaker to a meet.

Let's face it, when I get up to being over 70 years old, I don't want anything to do with changing a fuel pump, waterpump or even a leaking carb float at the side of the road and lot's can go wrong when you are driving a 50 year old car more than a few hundred miles.

I really don't think there is an answer to this thread, the long standing members are getting older and new blood is not replacing the membership. I will be totally surprised if there will even be a International Meet in 10 more years.

Very well stated, and sums it up my comment on it, however, I do hope to see International Meets continue on longer than another ten years.

Only further comment I will make, is by the time we are over 70, our Studebakers will be 70 year old cars; not 50.

Craig

studegary
10-16-2014, 03:26 PM
Gary, there is a different reason for the lower numbers of judged cars... many members are sick and tired of missing all the fun while they wait for the judges. Further to that, judging consistency from meet to meet has rankled the feelings of many members. You know it's true.

I predict that one day soon SDC meets will be like Hudson meets - no judging, and maximum fun! You can still have trophies for choice, etc., if someone has to haul home some hardware. Many chapters do this at Zone and Fun meets - no reason why it won't work great at an International Meet.

I believe that there should be judging for those that want it. Keep in mind that judging has always been optional. No one is forced to have their car judged. I am a strong believer in drive through judging. The best is to have judging upon arrival at the show field. I have been to several SDC Internationals where there was various forms of drive through judging. It worked well in all of them. This frees up the show car's owners to be able to enjoy the rest of the show.

studegary
10-16-2014, 03:46 PM
I may be more intimately involved with SDC judging than most here.
1) I wrote the initial SDC Judging Rules & Regulations.
2) I have attended the vast majority of SDC Conventions since 1971.
3) I have driven Studebakers to many meets.
4) I have won a First Place at an SDC International Meet.
5) I was the authenticity judge for C/K for many years.

SDC judging is available for those that want it. No one is forced to compete. I am a strong believer that non-judged cars should be parked with judged cars at the concours. I am also a strong believer in drive through judging. This is easier on both the judges and the show car owners.

I look at the concours at an International Convention as just one very small part of the week's activities. I am always at the convention from Sunday through Saturday and find myself busy the whole time. This was the case when I was working 50 hours per week and had to take vacation time as well as now when I am retired.

One year, I was having a car judged, was the authenticity judge for a different division and was on the SDC Board. At the end of that week, I said; "never again".

I now attend the SDC Conventions mostly to visit with other members, some that I just met and others that I have known for more than 40 years.

As far as weekend vs. weekday conventions. This has been discussed to death. Please use the search function.

To directly answer Gary A's question, I think that it is mostly that our Studebakers are getting much older as well as the rest of us. Studebakers (not those modified) have a big discrepancy in stopping, handling, comfort, etc. from current cars in the traffic that will be encountered. Driving hundreds or thousands of miles is different from going to a local meet or cruise-in. I know that there are those that still drive long distance to SDC Conventions, but the vast majority of those cars are modified (even Thoms).

rodnutrandy
10-16-2014, 05:12 PM
I don't worry about Judging on my vehicle, it is a streetrod and that doesn't set with some. I do enjoy seeing and talking Studebaker , and meeting the people. As far as judging, I am thrilled what my truck gets at any show I go to. At pumpkin run 2 weeks ago , out of 2471 entries, I was given a top 50 plaque , so I know how the truck shows ,even if it might not show well at a Studebaker meet .

Skip Lackie
10-16-2014, 06:13 PM
With all due respect (and to expand on one of Gary's comments above), the matter of the scheduling of Intl Meets (what months of the year, what days of the week) has been discussed on this forum ad nauseam and should not be used to redirect this thread. It's not that the two issues are not related to attendance -- they certainly are; but there are many other reasons (all exhaustively discussed in past postings) why the IMs are scheduled for Mon-Sat with the concours on Thursday. Those interested in these discussions should use the search function.

studegary
10-16-2014, 06:15 PM
I don't worry about Judging on my vehicle, it is a streetrod and that doesn't set with some. I do enjoy seeing and talking Studebaker , and meeting the people. As far as judging, I am thrilled what my truck gets at any show I go to. At pumpkin run 2 weeks ago , out of 2471 entries, I was given a top 50 plaque , so I know how the truck shows ,even if it might not show well at a Studebaker meet .

I do not know why it would not show just as well in a non-stock class at an SDC International. Just look in the current TW.

Corvanti
10-16-2014, 06:46 PM
Randy, i totally agree with Mr. L !!!:!:

i'd love to see your truck in St. Louis! i'll be there at the Int'l Meet - if all goes well health-wise in the next couple of months. and if that happens, i'll have enough time to get the '51 ready to make the long drive.:cool:

8E45E
10-16-2014, 06:51 PM
Studebakers (not those modified) have a big discrepancy in stopping, handling, comfort, etc. from current cars in the traffic that will be encountered.

One very EXCELLENT reason no one should say anything negative about a car that is trailered to an event. In some instances it is far safer for the occupants and the vintage vehicle (not just Studebakers) to be trailered behind a modern vehicle.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?75382-Sad-Situation&highlight=packard+rain

Craig

Timj
10-16-2014, 06:52 PM
OK Skip. I will at least give you this respect. I did use the search feature and came up with two threads, one of which was this one and the other did not address what we were talking about here. I think this is a real reason the club has a dropping membership. I will be quiet now and not speak unless spoken to.

TimJ

57studesilverhawk
10-16-2014, 06:59 PM
Gary , I do think they charge a smaller fee for display vehicles , but not 100 % sure.
Maybe there should be some kind of a souvenir, so to speak, for people who bring Studebakers that the others don't receive without a Studebaker.
Personally , I feel that people who don't drive a Studebaker to an International are missing out on the best part :D

I have been charged $10.00 for display only and I think this is also fair, no complaint about that, some times I have a dash plaque and then at some nothing. I have always enjoyed getting the memento from that show. I do hope that the SDC Annual Meets continue well beyond the 10 yrs, in that time I will be 84 yrs and I hope to still be attending.

8E45E
10-16-2014, 07:07 PM
....some times I have a dash plaque and then at some nothing. I have always enjoyed getting the memento from that show.

Remember that when 2016 rolls around. We missed dash plaques at the excellent 2005 show your chapter hosted.

Craig

57studesilverhawk
10-16-2014, 07:39 PM
Thanks I will bring this up for the 2016 North Central Zone Meet. Good point thanks Craig hope to see you all their in '16.

JoeHall
10-16-2014, 08:34 PM
OK Skip. I will at least give you this respect. I did use the search feature and came up with two threads, one of which was this one and the other did not address what we were talking about here. I think this is a real reason the club has a dropping membership. I will be quiet now and not speak unless spoken to.

TimJ
Tim,
Arguably, EVERYTHING in this thread has been addressed before (perhaps to "ad nauseam"), so we could all just read the archives and delete this entire thread. So who decides what is re-hash able and what is not? I dunno.

On the other hand, the issue of when to have the IM, as to days, week, or month has been tossed back and forth to the point of exhaustion. The exhaustion may stem from the apparent fact that there does not seem to be a time-frame all, or even most, can agree on. In the end, the powers that be (our elected officials ?), have decided for us. I just try to make it fit, though it often does not.

There are lots of other issues about the IM that will never please all, i.e. upscale, expensive locations, versus more affordable. Again, nothing suits all. Apparently, that one is still re-hash able though, since it was addressed in this thread without the poster getting dressed down. As you, I am not sure how the rules are applied, but hope you don't take it personal.

As far as time and location, if attendance is an implicit way of voting, the numbers speak loud and clear at the end of each IM. Some obviously fall flat on their face, and others have always done well.

rknight89
10-16-2014, 08:46 PM
Just my opinion: I've never been a big fan of "judged" events. I know where EVERY flaw in my car is. I don't need a judge telling me about it. I go to shows and cruise ins more for the people and conversations. I realize there are people that like to know if their car 'passes muster', but I would rather have fun and look at all the great cars, rather than turn it into a competition. Y'all asked...

Colgate Studebaker
10-16-2014, 10:16 PM
I can't speak for myself, but I can for my brother. I finished restoring his 63 Avanti in 2010. At that point it was an R2, 4 speed. No power steering, no A/C, but yes the power brakes. In the time span it took me to do the car, he lost his left leg, and had several other physical issues at age 69. The car is beautiful, but he had great difficulty trying to drive it. In 2012 I changed the trans to a power shift and added power steering, which helped him greatly. He enjoys puttering around locally (within 150 miles) but does not want to drive it on a longer trip. He not only skips the IM's but even zone or chapter events he is not comfortable driving to. So to get to answering Garys question, I believe the advancing age of our membership and their difficulties driving our aging vehicles, coupled with the distance necessary to drive these vehicles makes the brand X more appealing, or skipping the meet entirely. My 2 cents worth also, Bill.

Milaca
10-16-2014, 10:38 PM
It is my understanding that the main reason for having a car judged at a Studebaker meet is to gain knowledge as to how a Studebaker originally came from the factory. In other words, what about your Studebaker is authentic and what is non-authentic. This is unlike other car shows where the best pearlescent paint finish receives the most points. I was recently at a Studebaker zone meet and I watched and overheard a 1963 Avanti being judged, and I found it to be quite educational.

Back to the original question as to what would bring in more Studebakers at meets.... I like the previously mentioned Studebaker driving tours, this sounds like a lot of fun. This could even include tours to local Studebaker members homes so that they can show-off their collections.

Also, a Studebaker parade like was held at the 2012 South Bend meet is a nice thing to have (it certainly introduces a lot of non-Studebaker folk to Studebakers), though I only suggest having such a parade if the weather isn't too warm. Invite the local media as they crave such feel-good stories.

Being that the meets draw many people to the host chapter's city, perhaps local restaurants/drive-ins would be willing to give a small discount to those arriving at their establishment in a Studebaker. A Studebaker certainly would draw a lot of attention to the restaurant where it is parked.

Here is an unusual idea....share the show field with another specific-brand car club (think Hudson or American Motors). Anybody with a running Studebaker will be damned if they are outnumbered by another brand of automobile! ;)

8E45E
10-16-2014, 10:44 PM
Here is an unusual idea....share the show field with another specific-brand car club (think Hudson or American Motors). Anybody with a running Studebaker will be damned if they are outnumbered by another brand of automobile! ;)

How about Packard.....like what was done in 2007.


http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?51526-Orphan-of-the-Day-05-25-1954-Packard-Caribbean&highlight=packard+joseph%27s

Craig

Milaca
10-16-2014, 11:11 PM
How about Packard.....like what was done in 2007.


http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?51526-Orphan-of-the-Day-05-25-1954-Packard-Caribbean&highlight=packard+joseph%27s

Craig

That would make for a nice show Craig, but I am thinking more along the lines of a Ford verses Chevy type of competition. If Nash/AMC Ramblers are invited to attend a Studebaker car show, I think almost everyone with a Studebaker is going to bring their Studebaker and drive around with their fist up in the air as they won't want to be outdone. ;)

Skip Lackie
10-17-2014, 08:20 AM
OK Skip. I will at least give you this respect. I did use the search feature and came up with two threads, one of which was this one and the other did not address what we were talking about here. I think this is a real reason the club has a dropping membership. I will be quiet now and not speak unless spoken to.

TimJ
Tim-
Here are a few. There may be some more recent ones, but at my age, I remember the old ones better than I do the recent ones.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?64030-Future-International-Meets&highlight=Intl+Meet+schedule

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?988-International-Meet-Dates&highlight=Intl+Meet+schedule

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?27190-Opinions-5-Charge-to-see-Parts-at-Int-Meets&highlight=Intl+Meet+schedule

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?18314-Studebaker-Meets&highlight=Intl+Meet+schedule

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?63923-International-Meet-Agenda&highlight=Intl+Meet+schedule

TXmark
10-17-2014, 08:51 AM
I planned to go to St. Louis until I noticed in in August

Stu Chapman
10-17-2014, 10:25 AM
I hope all Forum members will reread this thread…..carefully…..ALL OF IT! The rudeness, name calling, snarkiness, "argue with a fence post" attitude, inability to stay on topic, barely concealed dislike for select other members (I admit to being guilty of the last). When you start with the huge disadvantages of a rapidly aging membership, and add all of this, is it any wonder that the SDC is a DYING ORGANIZATION? Sad. Member since 1978. It didn't used to be this way.

Relax, it's just that many wish to get something of their respective chests. Tomorrow will be a better day. SDC is still a great organization, just that it can't please everyone all of the time.

Stu Chapman

Chris Pile
10-17-2014, 10:41 AM
Relax, it's just that many wish to get something of their respective chests. Tomorrow will be a better day. SDC is still a great organization, just that it can't please everyone all of the time.

Hear, hear!

Deaf Mute
10-17-2014, 11:40 AM
I didn't drive our Avanti (or 1953 coupe) to Dover, as we went thru South Bend, Auburn, and Indy museums on the way and were on a tight schedule. We got back from a great Zone Meet in Wisconsin (563 miles in the Avanti) a couple weeks ago and have plans to drive the Avanti to St. Louis next summer. Yes, I have paid the $5.00 to have the Avanti parked with the other great cars, although all Avantis are "great", I have not been able to restore mine so it would be a waste of time and money to get it judged.
I don't like to pay $5.00 to "display" the car; but I consider it supporting our SDC and is one of the things we need to do. There is not much room for suitcases, spare parts, and items bought at the swap meet in an Avanti; so that is a bit of a hardship, but if I purchase something large, I bet I can find someone with a way to get it close to my home so I can retrieve it with the F-250 at a later date.
Last year we started for St. Louis in the Avanti for the Zone Meet... but the wiring harness burned out on the way. Since we were caravaning with other members, we were able to leave the car at a service station and ride with others. ALWAYS travel in groups if you can!
See you in St. Louis no matter what you drive (or ride, or haul), just get there, it will be a great meet!

jclary
10-17-2014, 11:41 AM
Well...after all, this is a forum, and for goodness sake, we are Studebaker folks. I recall a time when the name Studebaker elicited cat calls, hoots, jokes and derision from just about any direction you could name. Comments like, "What's the matter...Junk yard wouldn't let you in?" The time leading up to the big shut-down and, certainly, a few years thereafter, were rough times for Studebaker fans. Therefore, I have always thought that true Studebaker folks should have a pretty "tough skin" to carry on. Those who constantly need the adulation of others, for validation, will always present themselves as a convenient target for disappointment.:(

As for how to get more cars on the field...FUN, CONVENIENCE, FELLOWSHIP, and COMFORT. I hesitated to comment for some time as I read this thread. Reason being, ideas are easy, good ideas are a little less easy, and jumping in and implementing ideas is another ball game. I am full of ideas, good ideas...not so much. Also, I have admitted in the past, that I am not good at event planning. My hesitance in commenting is due to my feeling that complainers should jump in and be part of the solution to the problems you find so easy to complain about.:whome:

So, the challenge, to me, is to find a way to make the experience of bringing your car a real fun experience. That would include choosing a venue with ample space, restroom facilities, shade, and other amenities that support comfort and enjoyment. While local attractions are important, they should not detract from the main event of celebrating the cars. In addition, chapters sponsoring an event should be supported by a team of ambassadors from surrounding chapters whose contribution could be contacting regional Studebaker owners and encouraging them to attend. Another addition to encourage folks to attend...form a "roadside assist team." That could include an "emergency call number," that folks en-route could call should a breakdown occur. Regional members could offer safe parking should a members car need to be towed to a temporary place until further actions can be taken. :)

See...ideas are easy.:rolleyes: Good ones:confused:... Implementing??? You grab a roster, a map, and start making phone calls, form a group of volunteer ambassadors to contact local Studebaker owners, establish a "safe parking network," find reputable towing references, etc. etc.:QQ:

This is why I try to thank the worker bees and planners at all events I attend. It is not my purpose to make this post a "downer." But, I don't care if you are into Studebaker, motorcycles, horses, or Punkin Chunkin'...the more FUN you can pack into the event...the more participation. Since I am retired, the time of the events is not as important to me as they once were. However, we do need to study and make some intense effort to hold the event in a time frame most conducive to attendance. Having a plan of assisting those encountering difficulty along the way, could go along way in encouraging some to attend.:)

In the four decades I have been a member, I have attended only four international meets. I have fond memories of all. One of them was driving a six cylinder truck over 1600 miles, mostly interstate driving. Met and had a conversation with Bob Bourke, made friends, and won a first place trophy with that truck!:)

I can't believe that was 30 years ago??? Still, great memories...for those of you with the desire, energy, and tough enough skin to jump in and plan the next one...I salute you!!!:!:

R3 challenger
10-17-2014, 12:15 PM
When I was President of SDC in 1988, I appointed Dave Ridge as Chief Judge for the club, and he did a great job for many years. Dave and I discussed with the Board of Directors the idea of trying an international meet with a display-only car show. Dave pointed out that several other major car clubs had been successfully doing that for some years. We never tried it, but it's an interesting idea.

I must admit that when I was young, I wanted those trophies! I kept at it year by year and learned a lot until one of my cars (The Plain Brown Wrapper, 1972) won a best of show at a time when only two best of show awards were given--one for pre-war, and one for post-war. After a couple of decades of competition, I realized that I enjoyed just displaying my cars; the trophy no longer mattered much. For the past 30 years, I have entered cars for display only. But those early learning experiences were extremely valuable, and the incentive to learn came from the desire to have the car do well in judging. I don't mean to denigrate trophies...I still have and enjoy that 1972 trophy!

So I wouldn't criticize either judging or the other option of display only; having both available at every meet is probably a good thing.

Interesting discussion.

George

clonelark
10-17-2014, 12:23 PM
I took my 55 very original paint Conestoga to Denton Tx for a regional meet, every one there liked it but the judges. Even got gigged for dull paint, had it for 9 years now and some parts i still cant get to shine.
http://i59.tinypic.com/29nx8v4.jpg

rockne10
10-17-2014, 12:28 PM
I've always enjoyed driving my Studebakers, as much for my enjoyment as that I see on others faces and smiles. I've found it tripled when driving long distances at highway speed when I have complete faith in its condition; such as I did to Dover, four hundred miles. It sat out in the rain there Wednesday night and I took a chamois to it Thursday morning. It missed a 400 by eight points. Then drove to Lewes and took the ferry to Cape May where I cruised around for a week before heading back home. Some observers might ask why it's not in a trailer, and I think that would deprive all the people who otherwise saw it in motion. And, if anything should, happen, as things sometimes do, they can always be fixed.
One of my fond memories of Gettysburg '80 was seeing a 1924 coupe being brought in on a trailer from Missouri. It was being pulled by a 1942 Commander. That was one very hot International Meet but, as recently as thirty-four years ago, most of us were probably still accustomed to not having A/C at all !

Pat Dilling
10-17-2014, 12:56 PM
I think John Clary has some good ideas. Here are some more. How about sending out a friendly challenge to chapters or zones? Develop somewhat concentric circles on the map with the IM in the middle then issue challenges to bring a certain percentage of people and cars. The closer to the IM the higher the percentage to meet the challenge. Highest percentage within a mileage range gets recognition at the meet and in Turning Wheels. Also encourage caravans, travelling together provides security in numbers if anyone should have a problem along the way. Chapters could organize preparation events to help members get ready for the trip. Chapters could also coordinate modern, comfortable "chase vehicles." If you had 4 or 6 passenger chase cars, family members or even drivers could take turns riding in air conditioning.

SScopelli
10-17-2014, 02:07 PM
How about leasing some Semi Trucks Car haulers to load up from the farthest points and then have pickup locations along the route..

The owners could then fly there and enjoy the time instead of recovering from "Road Lag."

Be one awesome sight to see a car hauler with several Studies on it! that would also give some national attention to anyone on the road..

Dreaming, but might just be piratical..

And for piratical sense, have all cars together. During registration let them indicate if they want it judged or not and what category..
Have different color forms on the window for judged cars, and let the folks vote for any car as show favorite..

i was just at JCCS in Long Beach. its was just a great get together and no pretentiousness. No one there cared if your horn relay is the correct color, or correct angle.. That is just utter nonsense..

Guido
10-17-2014, 02:11 PM
We could just move the IM to the Internet and enjoy it from the comfort of our living room...

Guido
10-17-2014, 02:14 PM
We could just move the IM to the Internet and enjoy it from the comfort of our living room...

No expenses, no commute, no breakdowns, no heat, no humidity, no bugs and no sunburn.

Guido
10-17-2014, 02:16 PM
We could just move the IM to the Internet and enjoy it from the comfort of our living rooms...

No expenses, no commute, no breakdowns, no heat, no humidity, no bugs and no sunburn.

JoeHall
10-17-2014, 06:46 PM
Speaking of honest to goodness drivers, there was a guy who used to show up at International Meets in his late 1920s or early 1930s Studebaker President. It was a 2-seater, with straight 8 motor, and he used to drive it all the way from California. Last time I saw him was in Madison, Wisconsin, or maybe Red Wing. A quick look at the interior of his car would reveal to anyone it was obviously a driver; seats well worn; steering wheel, hand and foot controls worn, etc.. He was a hoot to talk to also.

Does anyone know how he is doing, or what has became of him?

rockne10
10-17-2014, 08:05 PM
Between myself and two friends we could put eight Studebakers on a hauler; then there's the cost of the hauler. Would SDC cover transportation costs :lol: if it meant getting eight cars there instead of three? :rolleyes:

Hallabutt
10-17-2014, 08:08 PM
Gary,

I have said it before, I like September meets! Among my favorites were Lancaster, Rapid City and Spokane each special because of where they were located and the weather. Two of the meets were held in September. Few of us in the West go to IMs any more, for many of us it's about where it is and the weather. We are zero for two when it comes to those factors, and with no IM meets scheduled within eighteen hundred miles of us, driving a Studebaker, in the middle of the summer is a joke. This is not a rant, it is just perspective drawn from countless discussions about the situation.

As for cars showing up at an IM. Consider a personal invitation, a little stroking goes a long way. I know it has worked on me when I have been invited to some prestige venues. I don't think that it has been tried on this level. Give it a try you might be surprised at the results.

JoeHall
10-17-2014, 08:27 PM
Gary,

I have said it before, I like September meets! Among my favorites were Lancaster, Rapid City and Spokane each special because of where they were located and the weather. Two of the meets were held in September. Few of us in the West go to IMs any more, for many of us it's about where it is and the weather. We are zero for two when it comes to those factors, and with no IM meets scheduled within eighteen hundred miles of us, driving a Studebaker, in the middle of the summer is a joke. This is not a rant, it is just perspective drawn from countless discussions about the situation.

As for cars showing up at an IM. Consider a personal invitation, a little stroking goes a long way. I know it has worked on me when I have been invited to some prestige venues. I don't think that it has been tried on this level. Give it a try you might be surprised at the results.
I attended the Spokane meet, and drove there from Kentucky. It was a 4500 mile round trip in a 56J. Only problem was that I got food poisoning along the trail back, and spent four days in the VA hospital in Ames, Iowa. It still was a very memorable trip and meet. The Spokane folks were warm, friendly, and knew how to put on a first class IM :)

8E45E
10-17-2014, 09:19 PM
Here is a DODGE that gets DRIVEN to their meets:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5606/15374247620_6b00ff075f_k_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5611/14939126294_5e0af01d1a_k_d.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3942/15373261979_a9228cdb4e_k_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5607/14939698363_9115247869_k_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5611/15373313569_a8eacb5c02_k_d.jpg

Craig

garyash
10-17-2014, 09:21 PM
Pat Dilling suggested a map with concentric circles. Here's one for the 2015 St. Louis meet (blue circles) and 2016 Warwick, RI meet (green circles).
The SDC membership numbers for St. Louis: 69% of you live within 1000 miles, 30% within 500 miles, and 11.6% within 300 miles.
For Warwick, RI, the numbers are: 46% of members within 1000 miles, 18% within 500 miles, and 11% within 300 miles.
Note: these are straight line, as the crow flies miles, not true highway miles. Side trips to Dollywood, etc. may add distance.
Just drive, trailer, or drag your car to the meets. I liked the idea of the emergency crew to go fetch broken cars. I have a 16 ft car hauler, will be ready for 2016.
38518

JoeHall
10-17-2014, 10:14 PM
Point noted. However, i would argue there are light years difference in the "hassle factor" between Midwestern Interstates and fighting traffic in the Northeast (or Delaware, for that matter). It was EXACTLY a MapQuested 1000 miles from my door to both Colorado Springs and Dover. Drove West (in a brand X) in one day. (And had a wonderful time--Great Meet!) But wouldn't have fought 4th of July traffic going to Dover on a bet. (And I owned property in Virginia for 20 years, so don't anyone DARE make snide remarks about my not understanding "the East"!)
I could not agree more. I really enjoy driving out west, but avoid the NE when possible. Last time up there was maybe 8 years ago when went to Maine to pick up a 56J. The traffic and toll roads were a real hassle.

The west may be changing though, at least around Denver. I was out in Los Angeles last June (in the 62GT) and when coming back through Denver, traffic was stop and go, beginning about 50 miles out, on I-70 East. Never did see anything to explain it, i.e. construction or an accident. So I just assumed maybe lots of folks going there to pick up some of the infamous left-handed cigarettes.

I do not recall ever seeing stop and go traffic like that, 50 miles out from Denver.

jclary
10-17-2014, 10:53 PM
One additional comment regarding trailering ...First, I need to preface my remarks for perspective. When I first began attending meets, I was fresh out of college, (of which I worked and paid for myself) living in a mobile home, wife, and baby. Back then, just buying a bag of chips was an important expense. I would see folks come to meets with fancy rigs, trailering perfect restorations, unload on the show field, win the trophies, load up and haul away in comfort.

I'll admit to feeling unworthy, out of place and a bit envious. However, overall, there were plenty of folks just like me. Even the well heeled, well funded members with trailers, somehow, managed to treat me with respect, were approachable, and friendly. There have been times that my driven ride had to compete with trailered rides. You know, the burnt exhaust manifold is competing with a car/truck that still has a shiny silver manifold. The driven ride has a bit of oil blow on the filler neck, fuel seepage stains around the carburetor, and an oily film from that blasted felt timing cover gasket. The trailered ride...none of that.

So...as time passed, I finally managed to acquire a trailer. Well, I have used that trailer to haul tractors, lumber, and all sorts of things. Finally, I had the ability to trailer a car to a meet. Then...it hit me, driving a vehicle up the ramps onto the trailer is a risk. The first time, you need at least two people. Someone needs to check the transition point to make sure the car does not snag and pull off a muffler, bend a drive shaft, or ding a rocker. Once it is on the trailer, it needs to be secured. Flopping a log chain around a tractor axle and chugging down a load binder is one thing...securing your prize restoration is a completely different matter. Like a lot of things, I'm sure that "Trailering" gets better with practice, experience, and, of course, enough money to buy proper equipment.

I said all that to say this. Those who trailer have to work to do it. It is not fun. It has an entire set of anxieties, risks, and hazards of its own. It ain't cheap. It ain't forever. My once nice red Dodge trailer puller, now has over a hundred and fifty thousand miles on it. Paint is fading, and so on. Same for the trailer. Trailer brakes, tires, bearings, electricals, and hitch...all need maintaining. I've probably had that trailer for about a decade...Never trailered a Studebaker to a meet(yet). For now, I just don't want the hassle.

The last meet I attended, I drove a Studebaker, and my wife followed in her Toyota. Some brought their Studebakers on a trailer. Funny, I no longer envied them. Didn't resent them, and, in fact...enjoyed all that showed up. Like Gary says...if you can get there...get there.

alaipairod
10-17-2014, 11:13 PM
Sorry, no offence intended. I think we all recognize that it's nice to have a car that is perfect, and it won't stay that way if it's driven very far. It's great to see 400 point cars at the meets and reward the work with a trophy.

Actually, I don't think there currently is a charge for "display only" cars at International meets. Only cars to be judged pay a fee. I'm just trying to figure out how to encourage people to bring any old Studebaker and park it on the display field. We may have to offer a free plate of clamcakes or some other Rhode Island delicacy at Warwick in 2016 to induce people to come and bring a car or more.

In response to Gary's "Trailer Queen" comment, I will offer my 2 cents worth.
Like Gary I have restored a Studebaker M5 1/2 ton truck. I have kept the truck as stock as saftey will allow, as I'm sure Gary has.
However you do not want to take this truck on the Turnpike, Freeway, Interstate, or whatever. There is no way you will not be a saftey hazard on these roads. Therefore to get to shows that are not accessible by a 2 lane blacktop road ain't feasible. That's why we trailer our truck...............By no means are we "Queens"......We be "Kings" of the roads...........

dong
10-18-2014, 12:03 AM
At Lancaster, I walked past a guy who was loading up a beaten up old Lark. The paint was worn in places, had primer where repaired, and dents where not repaired. The interior had old mismatched and torn seat covers. An interesting enough car to cause an immediate conversation. He was unhappy because he did not qualify for even a third place award in a "drivers club".
He was livid, saying he was never going to another SDC event because he over heard the judges laughing at his car. He obviously did not think everybody was welcome.

SN-60
10-18-2014, 12:30 AM
Another tip (besides not holding the big meet in July or August) is to drive overnight...sometimes easier said than done..but you'll experience roads clear of traffic and agreeable temperatures!:!:

sals54
10-18-2014, 01:26 AM
At Lancaster, I walked past a guy who was loading up a beaten up old Lark. The paint was worn in places, had primer where repaired, and dents where not repaired. The interior had old mismatched and torn seat covers. An interesting enough car to cause an immediate conversation. He was unhappy because he did not qualify for even a third place award in a "drivers club".
He was livid, saying he was never going to another SDC event because he over heard the judges laughing at his car. He obviously did not think everybody was welcome.

dong,
That is a very important point you made. I've been on the receiving end of similar comments in my car. Mine is not pretty, but I love it. I love driving it and showing it. I've found that it shows extremely well at Brand X shows, cuz many folks have never seen a Studebaker, so they are fascinated by it. It doesn't hurt that its low and loud too. But, yeah, I've seen the snobbery at Studebaker events for many years.

Lamar
10-18-2014, 06:12 AM
Where would I find this list of "standards" you speak off and who is responsible for them?

plee4139
10-18-2014, 07:12 AM
My Sky Hawk is definitely a contender and has won many trophies and other kinds of recognition here on eastern long Island. I didn't attend the Dover meet because some of it was on the Fourth of July weekend. Getting on and off the Island is difficult enough without subjecting my car to choking and potentially dangerous traffic. I am definitely attending the Warwick, RI show in '16 however, as it's an easy and pleasant trip via the cross-sound ferry to CT. At this point, being judged is not a priority. It's the contact with so many people with such a strong common interest. In a politically and socially polarized society like ours I find these contacts to be very important.

Ron Cee
10-18-2014, 07:54 AM
For me simply showing up with one of the Stude's is good enough. I too like the "cars and coffee"/fellowship. I've gotten to the age where the horror of a roadside breakdown represents a challenge I have no use for.

My own enjoyment is to drive them around town and enjoy them. If it's a trip for a SDC chapter event I'll take the daily driver.

Insofar as the normal cruise-in/car show events, got over that years ago. Summer heat on asphalt no longer holds my attention. Besides, most attendees walk right past a Studebaker or Packard anyway. The "who made Studebaker" question gets old.

I credit anyone who has the knowledge to "judge" a car. Unfortunately, many of them have no clue and could benefit from medication and counseling.

Suppose I'm just getting older and grumpy !

Dan White
10-18-2014, 08:30 AM
As for standards I will go back to my comparisons to the National Hudson meets. It is pretty amazing we get cars from actual barn finds driven as is to concours quality restorations. Most of the post war cars, many being stepdowns are almost always driven and many of the pre-wars to, but there are often the elegant '20s and '30s cars that are truly works of art that are trailered, but everyone parks together. There are no classes, no segregation and no one is made to feel their car is not worthy of being there, just getting there is the reward that everyone enjoys.

My experiences at the Studebaker meets have mostly been the same, but there are the occasional snobby comments, but luckily they are few and far between from my experience. I do enjoy someone that has more knowledge than me stopping by though to let me know something that is not right on my car. I take this info and use it to make my car better and never take it as someone knocking my car.

Having a driver class with the ability to get trophies would be a plus in my opinion though. Also, an HPOF (Historic Preservation of Original Features) class, like the AACA has would be a draw. When I got into this hobby my feeling is that i needed to do a full frame off restoration to have a show car and now I find HPOF to be something that readily appeals to me.

DEEPNHOCK
10-18-2014, 10:19 AM
I stopped getting judged years ago.
IM, Zone Meets, State Meets, and Chapter meets...are meets.
Go to have fun.
Getting scrutinized is for the birds.
(rant here)
Judgee's (not judge's) have caused the scrutiny, and sometimes suffer the consequences.
Some of the worst personal behavior I have seen at meets is at the awards ceremony.
Someone has their Avanti (or Studebaker) rated below their last judging.. Oh my! The histeria and foot stomping.
Have seeen it in one form or another at evey big meet I have attended.
My personal experience is that you open yourself up when you allow others to judge your work.
I started low, improved my machine, and was rated lower the next time entered.
Do that a couple of times and you will tire of it.
So... I just go to have fun. Pay the fee (the chapters need the help).. Check the 'display only' box.
Go off and have fun with friends, and try and help some other hapless soul who is getting judged.
Smile and wave at the end.. Tell everyone you had a great time... And drive away happy.
Then, go on the forum and read about how bad it all was,
and how unfair the judging was,
and how hot it was,
and how dark at night it was,
and how bad traffic was,
and how expensive gas was,
and how it interfered with school,
and how it interfered with vacation,
Sigh..... Let's have some fun!

bezhawk
10-18-2014, 12:05 PM
It isn't all milk and honey for the judges either! I have been on the receiving end when you point out something that is not correct. I have been told Gee I went to nationals last year, and they didn't even know that I had the wrong year fender ornaments, and got away with it. If a person enters their car for judging, then be prepared for it to be scrutinized and don't get mad at the judges if they find things that are not supposed to be there.

warrlaw1
10-18-2014, 02:33 PM
I built my car as a driver, but I have the "good" parts in storage to make it into a show car if the time comes when driving it is a pain. I put it on the field in South Bend as display only and couldn't have had a warmer reception. Lots of interest and one person told me it was the nicest car on the field. That's worth it. 38526

Hallabutt
10-18-2014, 03:10 PM
"Judge not lest ye be judged," for that and so many other reasons it's hard to get qualified judges to suffer on the day of the concourse. Been there a done that so many times that I lost count years ago. For those who cast stones at judges, but are unwilling to take their turn at judging, shame on you!

I think that the age of the survivor is upon us. I think that the Bloomington Gold judging has helped to stop some of the foolishness of the eighties and nineties where it was thought that all cars had to be restored to have their place in the sun. So many cars were restored that needn't have been. Don't misunderstand, I love restored cars and have spent thousands of hours restoring my own, but I tried to pick my battles so that I could enjoy the ensuing peace.

What I would like to see is an original class, like at SB in 2012, become a part of all the concourse events. I think that it would go a long way to help encourage participation of owners of original cars who would like to have their cars recognized for what they are. I have read about the Bloomington event and how their large judging team really take the time to get it right. I think that it would be great if a connection could be made with that group for training or oversight by a representative on concourse day. I would like to see this type of judging become a part of all regional judging events. Too much, well I have dreams and that's all I have to say about that!-Bill

plee4139
10-18-2014, 03:29 PM
I've been a judge at two AACA shows here on Long Island, and we were instructed specifically not to discuss anything about the car in front of the driver. I always say what a nice car it is because, in truth, the great majority of cars at these shows really are nice. (The overexposed and underwhelming '57 Chevys nonwithstanding.)

StudeRich
10-18-2014, 04:13 PM
/Cut/Insofar as the normal cruise-in/car show events, got over that years ago. Summer heat on asphalt no longer holds my attention. Besides, most attendees walk right past a Studebaker or Packard anyway. The "who made Studebaker" question gets old./Cut/

Ron; you will NEVER see that at Studebaker Events! You are just going to the wrong events! :)

Skip Lackie
10-18-2014, 05:47 PM
I stopped getting judged years ago.
IM, Zone Meets, State Meets, and Chapter meets...are meets.
Go to have fun.
Getting scrutinized is for the birds.
(rant here)
Judgee's (not judge's) have caused the scrutiny, and sometimes suffer the consequences.
Some of the worst personal behavior I have seen at meets is at the awards ceremony.
Someone has their Avanti (or Studebaker) rated below their last judging.. Oh my! The histeria and foot stomping.
Have seeen it in one form or another at evey big meet I have attended.
My personal experience is that you open yourself up when you allow others to judge your work.
I started low, improved my machine, and was rated lower the next time entered.
Do that a couple of times and you will tire of it.
So... I just go to have fun. Pay the fee (the chapters need the help).. Check the 'display only' box.
Go off and have fun with friends, and try and help some other hapless soul who is getting judged.
Smile and wave at the end.. Tell everyone you had a great time... And drive away happy.
Then, go on the forum and read about how bad it all was,
and how unfair the judging was,
and how hot it was,
and how dark at night it was,
and how bad traffic was,
and how expensive gas was,
and how it interfered with school,
and how it interfered with vacation,
Sigh..... Let's have some fun!
I would like to second the above comments.

Thanks, Jeff.

Lamar
10-18-2014, 06:36 PM
Uh…..well……the very definition of what a Concours Competition is. Judging standards. Authenticity standards. All published. All readily available to anybody. Of course, common sense standards are harder to find. Comments on this Forum prove THAT every day.

Well having never been to "concours competition" or spending time in the show car world I was curious. So there is a set of standards that apply to all concours competitions regardless of the brand or age of the vehicles involved. Interesting.

DEEPNHOCK
10-18-2014, 07:46 PM
Start here for us:

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/judging.asp

And for everybody else...here a little light reading for you:whome:

http://tinyurl.com/Concours-Judging




Well having never been to "concours competition" or spending time in the show car world I was curious. So there is a set of standards that apply to all concours competitions regardless of the brand or age of the vehicles involved. Interesting.

studegary
10-18-2014, 08:30 PM
I've been a judge at two AACA shows here on Long Island, and we were instructed specifically not to discuss anything about the car in front of the driver. I always say what a nice car it is because, in truth, the great majority of cars at these shows really are nice. (The overexposed and underwhelming '57 Chevys nonwithstanding.)

For SDC judging. the general dedutions for cleanliness and condition should not be discussed with the owner. On the other hand, all unusual authenticity deductions are to be brought to the attention of the owner, allowing him to support the use of the questioned item with documentation.

sals54
10-18-2014, 11:12 PM
What some view as "snobbery" others might view as an effort to maintain standards.

Stanwood,
You make a very valid point for cars shown at a concours event. I would never enter any of my cars at a concours event. Mine are driver quality hot rods.
Nevertheless, Studebaker shows are certainly not concours shows. Some want their Studes judged to high standards for different reasons, but some just want to line up with their other fellow drivers and show off what they've brought. There is not harm or fault in doing that either.
I'm jus sayin.

SN-60
10-19-2014, 01:07 AM
Once again, it's very simple....Hold the International Meet in June or September, drive overnight hours, have vehicle wash facilities at the host hotel......In this way you'll ENJOY driving your Stude/Packard to the big show! (Don't worry, be happy!):!:

Lamar
10-19-2014, 06:18 AM
Thanks Jeff, very interesting read. I haven't gotten through all of it yet but far enough to know it isn't something I want to contend with, I enjoy my Studes too much to put them through that. LOL

sals54
10-19-2014, 10:33 PM
My point was and still is that Studebaker shows are not Exclusively concours shows. They are open to all comers.
Well…. I thought we were on the same page, but I guess not. My point was that many just want to line up their cars and feel the commeraderie of fellow Stude owners. Let the judging go on in a specific area cordoned off for that purpose or have the cars tagged. Then let us peons park our "drivers" in the south forty and tailgate party by ourselves. I've been feeling it for decades. Guess not much changes through the years.
See ??? And folks wonder why I have a bad attitude towards the Studebaker DRIVERS Club. As a driver, its sometimes tough to get much love.

WayneXG95
10-20-2014, 12:02 AM
DING DING DING--- and we have a winner!!!

If I had a penny for every time I've had someone tell me that-
I'd have a garage full of trailer queens myself!!!
But in the meantime-
I'm pretty happy with my drivers, thanks. ;) :!:

I tend to agree..I'm more than happy with my driver as well.
I know she'll never be a Major Thophy winner and so be it.
I also know I can't compete with some peanut that throws $250,000 at a 57 Chev (trust me some do over here)
What makes me more than happy is when people walk up and want to have a yarn about my cars.
They might walk around that sweet 57 Chev fulie convertable but it's me they talk to!

Brings back the point that all the people I talk to, if their Dad or Grandfather had a Studebaker the company would still be making cars....go figure.

Anyway I though you guys had a section for origional cars, been trying to get that in my club with no luck.

avantilover
10-20-2014, 03:21 AM
I assisted Bob Johnstone line up the show field cars and we noted the number of car park vehicles which could have been there, "but I'm not being judged."

All cars should be on the field with an appropriate windshield card - display only or judged.

People want to see the vehicles, don't hide yours away considering the effort and expense incurred to bring it to the meet.

Colgate Studebaker
10-20-2014, 04:16 PM
When I finished my brothers 63 Avanti, we (brother and I) decided to have it judged 1 time, to see how good of a job I did on it. Since then it has been in many Stude and general car shows. It was not judged at any meets it has been to, however, twice it was awarded a peoples choice. My brother is thrilled with the car, and drives it as much as he can. He will "display" it, but feels no need to be judged again. The cars need to be enjoyed by each individual in the manner they prefer, trying to make it perfect and win lots of trophies, or just driving it and letting everyone else enjoy it also. Bill

4961Studebaker
10-20-2014, 05:58 PM
Of the handful of Internationals I've been to, Display only stickers or flyers have been implemented on judging day I'm a bit confused at the suggestion of this idea, as I've assumed it's become part and parcel for the day.
Also, reading through International meet posts of the past, as well as seeing Springfield and South Bend 2012 in person,
The judging has been faster, so I'm not sure if criticism is from past experiences?
Because in the last few years the slow judging seems to have been addressed and is working.
Granted if we as a club keep it up, there will be fewer and fewer cars to even judge, so Waiting may not be a future problem.
Personally hats off to the committee and judges, from my perspective this is becoming a non issue when it comes to the WAIT, if you have a gripe about the Point Deduction then that's another issue.

To the Threads orgininal point.

Inculsion on the field is my vote.

As far as increased participation to Display,
A carrot
Have participants receive added value the day of when they arrive or pay for the Display parking....I'm always a sucker for a hat pin or T-shirt commemorating an event, dash plaques do nothing for me. Thats just me. (my kid likes the pins as well, they're small, removable and can be pinned to cork boards or Lanyards or shirts ;))

Last suggestion, create a feeling of anticipation by participating in a driving event after the Judging/Display day.
Mini parade to an evening gathering.
Cruise to the Club Auction after the Judging/Display

For example, South Bends "parade" to Michigan/Studebaker Ave, cars were right there on the field ready to go and participate.
Watch the video's there was a huge participation in this event.
Granted this idea works great when the Venues are in seperate areas.
However, I'm sure there will be quips of, what about cleaning up after a hot day on the field, my car doesn't like slow traffic, ets.
Thats fine, no one forces us to do anthing, there are those of us who would like to "DO" more but feel the can't do attitude.

DieselJim
10-20-2014, 11:12 PM
How about leasing some Semi Trucks Car haulers to load up from the farthest points and then have pickup locations along the route..

The owners could then fly there and enjoy the time instead of recovering from "Road Lag."

Be one awesome sight to see a car hauler with several Studies on it! that would also give some national attention to anyone on the road..

Dreaming, but might just be piratical..

And for piratical sense, have all cars together. During registration let them indicate if they want it judged or not and what category..
Have different color forms on the window for judged cars, and let the folks vote for any car as show favorite..

i was just at JCCS in Long Beach. its was just a great get together and no pretentiousness. No one there cared if your horn relay is the correct color, or correct angle.. That is just utter nonsense..

I heard that someone close to you just bought a Studebaker Diesel tractor. Now get the semi car trailer from the same person. A load of Studebakers pulled with a Studebaker. Would not get any better than that.

SScopelli
10-21-2014, 12:08 AM
I heard that someone close to you just bought a Studebaker Diesel tractor. Now get the semi car trailer from the same person. A load of Studebakers pulled with a Studebaker. Would not get any better than that.

Hey DieselJim!

I guess the "Detroit" is out of the bag now..:yeahright:(shouldn't that be "Cat?")

You mean Roger and his new 4-53 tractor? :cool: (4 * 53 => 212 CuIn 2 cycle supercharged diesel)

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a609/R2Whistler/TransstarTractor/IMG_1008x_zps325c65ec.jpg

Well, I've see the car hauler :drool: and YES, That would be a sight to see several 1963 Studebaker R cars on it heading down the road..:!:

rockne10
10-21-2014, 12:14 AM
YES, That would be a sight to see several 1963 Studebaker R cars on it heading down the road..:!:Now that's what I'm talkin' about !:!: DOT would get him if he's charging for services but, nothing says you can't offer an envelope of appreciation.

DieselJim
10-21-2014, 12:18 AM
Hey DieselJim!

I guess the "Detroit" is out of the bag now..:yeahright:(shouldn't that be "Cat?")

You mean Roger and his new 4-53 tractor? :cool: (4 * 53 => 212 CuIn 2 cycle supercharged diesel)

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a609/R2Whistler/TransstarTractor/IMG_1008x_zps325c65ec.jpg

Well, I've see the car hauler :drool: and YES, That would be a sight to see several 1963 Studebaker R cars on it heading down the road..:!:

That is the one. Glad to see it getting attention again.

8E45E
10-21-2014, 08:10 AM
That is the one. Glad to see it getting attention again.

Looks like a twin to Daune Halvorson's '62 8E tractor. Last photo in post#29 here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?14059-Been-selling-but-then-this-came-along&highlight=bock

Craig

8E45E
10-21-2014, 08:21 AM
That would be a sight to see several 1963 Studebaker R cars on it heading down the road..:!:

You mean something like this? http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?10446-Big-ole-Stude-Diesels&highlight=avanti+diesel

Craig

SScopelli
10-21-2014, 11:13 AM
You mean something like this? http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?10446-Big-ole-Stude-Diesels&highlight=avanti+diesel

Craig

Actually Craig,

The car hauler DieselJim was talking about would look more like this!

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8484/8181050287_ee6d1e8bed_z.jpg