Frame / Springs: 4x4 Truck Chassis

[Skybolt]

I always wanted a Studebaker 4x4 but the reality is finding one for sale is nigh on impossible. So my question is what, if any, are the differences from a standard truck chassis and a 4x4 chassis. I ask because of how the transfer case and other non standard parts might be mounted. Are there any differences in steering components etc...? Any other differences I need to address if I was to replicate the idea, not necessarily with NAPCO parts, but with comparable parts.

Thanks, Len.

[Skip Lackie]

I would love to be proven wrong, but I am not aware of anyone who has compiled the differences or attempted to convert a 2WD Stude truck to 4WD. The only conversions I have seen at national meets were Stude bodies dropped on a modified brand X chassis and drive train. The only way to do it "right" (unless someone has already done it and answers your question) would be to go through the 57-61 truck parts book and highlight every place where FWD appears as a separate listing. But a couple of places in which they differ come to mind immediately: frame, exhaust, rear axle, fuel tank and lines, and springs. Not saying that all these items would need to be changed, but Stude though it was important enough to use a unique assembly on their 4WD trucks.

[Skybolt]

Thanks Skip Lackie, most of those can be addressed quite easily. It would be quite easy to replace both front and rear springs and axles, the exhaust, fuel lines but the tank might be tricky but not impossible. The frame is what I'm mainly interested in as the transfer case is the most significant change to the running gear. Thanks for your input.

I will have to get a hold of the aforementioned books/manuals.

Len.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Len -

Though I haven't seen it in a while, but there's a guy who built one here in SoCal somewhere that "normally" shows up at the La Palma meet every year. It's a little tall, don't know the chassis brand, but it a nicely done 4 wheel drive Stude bodied vehicle.

So yes, it can be done.

Mike

[Buzzard]

Hey Skybolt,
Many years ago I had a '69 Suburban factory 4x4 and it came with a divorced Rockwell transfer case(all gears, no chain, real tough & virtually bullet proof). I think this would be a good starting point as you can mount it pretty much anywhere convenient in the frame which will be easier than the more modern units which are integrated into part of the transmission assembly. This unit sat far higher than the newer units (yielding a much higher ground clearance and far better drive shaft angles) and would be simple to adapt the appropriate drive shafts etc. The only real hiccup would be to find the appropriate front axle with the drive shaft offset to the correct side. There are many different choices-check out various Dodge, Chevy and Ford offsets from different model years. For front axle, I used a GM 1 ton Dana 60 unit (circa 1985) which had king pins rather than the weaker ball joints used in 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks. I would suggest the 8 bolt pattern rather than the much weaker 6 bolt axles.
Good luck
Bill

[Skybolt]

I was trying to keep it pretty much old school, like using running gear from an old jeep to keep it looking like it was stock, but I have had newer FWD vehicles and wouldn't mind setting it up with some mid 80's stuff with auto hubs and auto transmission so my wife could drive it. Whatever I end up doing, if I do proceed, is to have a locker in the rear and a LSD in the front. I did like my 1985 K5 Blazer operation and to have a bit heavier Dana axles, front and rear, would be an easy swap. Having a GM transmission would make a Studebaker engine fit up easy with the currently available adapter plate.

I know using a GM chassis under the Stude would be even easier. Just keep all the running gear as is and swap in the Studebaker engine. If it would fit with some engine mount changes, I could use a TBI from a CA spec truck or SUV, of course I would have to make some sensor adaptations but it would work.

Even better would be to use a diesel engined Studebaker, update/upgrade to a more modern but compatible turbo diesel. I'm dreaming with that one as finding a 1/2 to 3/4 ton truck with a diesel is probably as hard as finding a 4x4. I like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL0fHy3B1QA

All is feasible but I think I would like to keep the heart and soul Studebaker, meaning the engine and chassis. The body is what defines the vehicle to others, but the heart/engine should be Stude and the soul/chassis as well. The bolt on parts that were sourced from other manufactures I am willing to swap out.

I guess this is why I don't mind the idea of the differential, transmission and transfer case being up for change. Even the steering gear change to a power assist would be the most or least I would do for any old 4x4 truck. I have did offroading for work for many years and had non-power steering at first and if not paying attention one can lose a thumb quick smart. Once the company went to using power assisted vehicles life was sweet. I still don't wrap my thumb around the steering wheel on any 4x4 I use.

Len.

[DieselJim]

Got a 4-53 Detroit Diesel out of a Studebaker setting in the garage. It is looking for a project. That Diesel in the u-tube is for sale. Belongs to Ford Stocker in Mo.

[LeoH]

Would there be any help trying to contact the folks from NAPCO as they were what went in original Studebaker 4x4s? http://www.northwesternautosupply.com/ourStory.html

[rockinhawk]

This one belonged to a kid in Florida about 25 years ago.I think he said it had Jeep parts under the Studebaker frame. Seems like I heard it was sold overseas

[Skybolt]

Would there be any help trying to contact the folks from NAPCO as they were what went in original Studebaker 4x4s? http://www.northwesternautosupply.com/ourStory.html

Although it would be fine by me to get a hold of NAPCO parts it would be hard to find a complete setup that was not attached to a truck or a high price tag. I would estimate the basic NAPCO setup consisting of two axles and transfer case would set me back about $6-7,000 and then have to be reconditioned. A complete setup that I didn't have to work on but just adapt and bolt in, with locking hubs and all, I would think would be a few thousand on top of that. Some Dana 44's or 60's with a NP203 transfer case, a 700r4 auto and call it done. An easy swap from a K5 Blazer or similar truck. Now if I could get the NAPCO parts and they would fit a Studebaker I would seriously consider having the older parts.

Len.

[Skybolt]

Hey Skybolt,
Many years ago I had a '69 Suburban factory 4x4 and it came with a divorced Rockwell transfer case(all gears, no chain, real tough & virtually bullet proof). I think this would be a good starting point as you can mount it pretty much anywhere convenient in the frame which will be easier than the more modern units which are integrated into part of the transmission assembly. This unit sat far higher than the newer units (yielding a much higher ground clearance and far better drive shaft angles) and would be simple to adapt the appropriate drive shafts etc. The only real hiccup would be to find the appropriate front axle with the drive shaft offset to the correct side. There are many different choices-check out various Dodge, Chevy and Ford offsets from different model years. For front axle, I used a GM 1 ton Dana 60 unit (circa 1985) which had king pins rather than the weaker ball joints used in 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks. I would suggest the 8 bolt pattern rather than the much weaker 6 bolt axles.
Good luck
Bill

I think for the price

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockwell-T223-Transfer-Case-New-T223A89-for-Napco-CCC-/360940550954?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5409bbbb2a&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-GM-NP203-transfer-case-/321477434139?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ad98c5b1b&vxp=mtr

I think there is a bit of wiggle room there for the desired outcome.

I would like the Rockwell/NAPCO parts but price is prohibitive.

[Skybolt]

I would love to be proven wrong, but I am not aware of anyone who has compiled the differences or attempted to convert a 2WD Stude truck to 4WD. The only conversions I have seen at national meets were Stude bodies dropped on a modified brand X chassis and drive train. The only way to do it "right" (unless someone has already done it and answers your question) would be to go through the 57-61 truck parts book and highlight every place where FWD appears as a separate listing. But a couple of places in which they differ come to mind immediately: frame, exhaust, rear axle, fuel tank and lines, and springs. Not saying that all these items would need to be changed, but Stude though it was important enough to use a unique assembly on their 4WD trucks.

That's why I was asking the questions. I'm sure there are differences but I don't know anyone with a 4x4 around here for me to check out. I'm sure I could hunt one down but if I did that I would be after their truck. I will try to find someone with both and ask them or do some checking but as I mentioned I don't know anyone close to me with a 4x4 Studebaker.

[LeoH]

Since you were initially fishing for parts 'n location on the frame, possibly someone there would either be willing (and able?) to answer, or direct you to sources they have for the originals. Looking at your location, you going there to wade through any original reference materials they might have is not feasible, but possibly someone else on the list who did live near there could?

Stretching it, but I've got a library degree...I'm all about looking up the old books and manuals I guess.

Although it would be fine by me to get a hold of NAPCO parts it would be hard to find a complete setup that was not attached to a truck or a high price tag. I would estimate the basic NAPCO setup consisting of two axles and transfer case would set me back about $6-7,000 and then have to be reconditioned. A complete setup that I didn't have to work on but just adapt and bolt in, with locking hubs and all, I would think would be a few thousand on top of that. Some Dana 44's or 60's with a NP203 transfer case, a 700r4 auto and call it done. An easy swap from a K5 Blazer or similar truck. Now if I could get the NAPCO parts and they would fit a Studebaker I would seriously consider having the older parts.

Len.

[Skybolt]

Since you were initially fishing for parts 'n location on the frame, possibly someone there would either be willing (and able?) to answer, or direct you to sources they have for the originals. Looking at your location, you going there to wade through any original reference materials they might have is not feasible, but possibly someone else on the list who did live near there could?

Stretching it, but I've got a library degree...I'm all about looking up the old books and manuals I guess.

Your right. I will give it a shot. Maybe they can point me in the right direction. I have nothing to lose.

Thanks,

Len.

[Lamar]

Might be worth looking into IH 1/2 and 3/4 ton pickups, heavier components than jeep and scout and should be closer in track width. Lamar