Electrical: R1 Distributor weight springs

[Flashback]

Just tore apart the distributor (R1 Prestolite) yesterday, for a clean and inspection, or rebuild. Everything looks good. No sign of wear. Thought I might replace the advance weight springs. Should I? Who has these? Did they come with a heavy and a lighter spring? I also could use a new wick? Any help? Thanks, Tex

O, and by they, I no longer have a distributor machine. I will have to do it the hard way or find some one nearby to set the curve.

[Bud]

The spring should be useable unless they are seriously rusted or stretched. You should have one heavy and one light spring and the cam should have a P stamped into it if you have an R1 distributor. New advance weights and bushing kits are available, but the cams are not. Bud

[Mike Van Veghten]

If you are looking for the best performance, install the lightest springs you can find.

You need the lower advance to let the engine start easilly, but you want the power that advanced ignition timing that it will provide as soon as you step on the gas, so that's where the light springs come into play. As the RPM rises, the weights swing out and like magic, there's more power at your gas pedal. The high possibility of a little better milage is also there...depending on how you drive..!

A "little" bit of lube goes a long way in providing both rust protection and proper movement of the weights on their rubbing pad and the pivot pin.

Mike

[Bud]

Be careful when readjusting the centrifugal advance rate on Studebaker V8 distributors. Studebaker engineers specified a certain advance rate when they designed the engines. They specified a fairly fast rate of advance, the R1 engines use a full centrifugal advance of 2400 rpm and around 20 degrees. You can bump the base timing a few degrees, but be careful as an R1 engine has around 10.25 to 1 compression and with modern lower octane gasoline, the engine can detonate rather easily. Jim Pepper wrote a good article on ignition timing in the September 2014 issue of Turning Wheels in the cooperator section which is a very informing read. That being said, my Avanti will only tolerate 28 to 30 degrees of centrifugal advance with the stock advance curve running on 91 octane gasoline before it will start to detonate in warm weather. Also keep in mind when advancing the spark in excess of what is called for in the shop manual can cause detonation at higher speeds where the pinging can't be heard until serious internal engine has occured. Bud

[Mike Van Veghten]

I seriously don't think changing the springs...will increase or decrease the actual maximum advance..!
It will just bring in the designed in amount "faster", or slower.
Ignition timing is power. More so than than the fuel mixture (other thAn seriously too lean or rich).

You can do a coupla of things to reduce the "full" advance.
1. You can buy bushings to limit the mechanical advance.
2. You can drop the initial (as adjusted by turning the distributor a degree or two).

Every engine wants what it wants ignition advance wise. The ONLY way to verify what "your" engine wants it to experiment. To say, "all R1 engine require 34 degrees of advance to run well", is silly.
There are the original tolerances that the engine was assembled with, there is currently the wear factor that the engine has gone thru in its life. Even the amount of carbon buildup in the chambers matters...!

An example...one combination in my old Pro Gas Anglia (1950 English Ford), the particular cam, ignition timing, compression ratio, etc. This combination wanted 50 degrees of advance...yea 50 degrees. I had two other knowledgeable people check my work because I couldn't believe or understand this. The cam was in correctly, the compression ratio was 12.5 to 1 in all cases, same heads... This one cam that I used (actually ran the best with)...wanted 50 degrees of full timing to run its best.
40 degrees is normally a max. that's used for that type wedge chamberd cylinder head.

Also, back in the 60's, one thing many (if not most, and maybe still do..!?) drag racers did, was after the engine was running well, they'd run the engine very rich to build up extra carbon deposits in the chamber. I remember some "name" racers claiming 3/4's of a point in compression. So yea...EVERY engine is different, and will require different timing and fuel to run its best.

Mike

[Bud]

There is no way a stock or fairly stock Studebaker engine will tolerate 50 degrees of advance and saying that it's a good idea to just start twisting a distributor without knowing the rate of advance and total advance in the distributor is nuts. I am not smarter than the people that designed our engines and neither are some of the back yard mechanics that make posts here. And while I will use a few extra degrees of advance on my own engines, I won't do it on someone else's engine as I'm not operating it and have no way of knowing how the driver will drive the car or what fuel will be used in it. Again, read Jim Pepper's excellent article on spark advance in the September issue of Turning Wheels if you don't want to believe what I'm saying. Bud

[Flashback]

I wasn't trying to gain total advance or really change the curve. Just trying to get the distributor as new. After a good cleaning and inspection, I find no reason to replace anything. Just going for about 28 total. I still need a wick. It was missing. I can find a old one, I suppose. Putting it back together today.