Rear Axle: Flanged Axle Shafts

[Mark57]

There has been a bit of talk on the Forum lately about flanged axles and I had posted a thread a couple of weeks back as I was looking for flanged axle parts. I have learned some interesting things along the way. So, I thought I would share. When Stude switched to flanged axle shafts on the late 65 and 66 "Lark type" cars, they used the same axle shafts for both the Dana 27 and 44 axles. Both setups also have the same seals, bearings and retainers. As many have noted before me the outer oil seals are (almost) "unobtanium". The tapered cone and roller bearings are different than on the tapered axle shafts of similar vintage Stude cars, but the cone to mate with the bearings are identical. I also note that the bearing cone and rollers and the cones are still readily available. The bearings on the flanged axles require a "bearing retaining ring" P/N 1562427 - this is the part that I have not been able to find despite best efforts at trying most of our well (and lesser) known Stude vendors (and some recommended bearing suppliers). This is puzzling as a new bearing set without a retaining ring is pretty much useless - unless you can figure out a creative way to reuse the retaining rings (The Stude Service Manual advises to cold chisel them off the shaft to replace the bearing). I do have the size now, so I can search a local supply to see if I can find something that will work.

The most interesting bit of information (to me) was the inside bearing diameter - Studebaker used a bearing with an ID of 1.3125". When I checked various Fords, Internationals, Jeeps, etc. that used the Dana 27 and 44 axles - also with flanged shafts they all used bearings with larger ID's usually around 1.5" to 1.75". It is the smaller diameter that is causing the difficulty in finding matching parts. Given Studebakers limited production of flanged axle cars, it is curious why they would not have adopted a more "standard" size of shaft diameter used by many other manufacturers. I am thinking there must be another car maker that used these smaller diameter shafts and bearings.

Also, the listing in many flaps for the flanged axle wheel bearing comes out as a cone and roller bearing for an input shaft on a manual transmission - another interesting adaptation.

BTW, I'll give a plug to S.I. as they actually have complete flanged axle shafts for these cars in stock with a complete bearing, retainer and seal set already installed ready for installation in the vehicle - always an option I suppose if I cannot find a couple of $5 retaining rings...

In the meantime, I will continue to drive my "tapered axle" Transtar.

[nels]

Mark,
Didn't the truck use larger axles than the passenger style Dana 44? I don't think the breakage problem extended to the truck line?

[JoeHall]

Looks like you have done a ton of research, and this good info is some of the fruit of your labor. Not sure what the benefit would be for using a Moser kit instead of SI's OEM type axles, but SI's are about half the price of Moser's. Do you know if SI's are NOS or repro? I think I'd be more comfortable with NOS than repro, but that would depend on where the repros come from.

Also, while none of us wants to experience a broken axle, not sure if there is any benefit to flanged axles over tapered, IF the tapered's hubs are installed correctly. On another thread, waiting on Ted's to answer on his experience with tapereds, prior to his use of flanged. If I am not mistaken, he was racing Studes way before 1966, when Stude flanged axles came out.

[Chicken Hawk]

[QUOTE=JoeHall;

Also, while none of us wants to experience a broken axle, not sure if there is any benefit to flanged axles over tapered, IF the tapered's hubs are installed correctly. On another thread, waiting on Ted's to answer on his experience with tapereds, prior to his use of flanged. If I am not mistaken, he was racing Studes way before 1966, when Stude flanged axles came out.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I was racing well before 1966. A lot of it was on the street back in high school/college days but started racing at Bunker Hill and Stout Field in Indy in the mid 1950's.

Until racing at the strips I didn't experience any axle problems but once entering the U S Nationals in Indy with the '51 in 1962, I went through several axles. Never did break one but always kept an eye for a twisted one. Would jack the rear up and run the car in gear to see if there was any "wobble" and if so, replaced it. If I had not kept an eye out for the "wobble", I'm sure I would have had some broken ones.

I did break one on the Wrapper one night at Muncie. I just finished a run going well over 100 mph and noticed something not right on the return road and opened the door and saw the left rear wheel "wobbling" really bad. Loaded it on the truck and on the way home it broke setting on the truck. Luckily it didn't do much damage other than a slight bend in the rocker panel but shuddered to think what would have happened if it had broken near the end of the run.

Would be very unusual for one to break beyond the start but Malcolm Berry just told me yesterday about that happening to a '57 Chevy at the "Geezer" race at Kil Kare this past weekend so it IS possible.

I was lucky as many have had them break in just normal cars with normal driving. Whether any or all were not assembled properly I have no idea.

Ted

[bezhawk]

I had one break on a 64 Daytona as I was turning a corner to go to work. The wheel turned the 1/4 panel into scrap, and the wheel kept on going, eventually resting on a sidewalk a good block away. Just think of the mass of a wheel with the complete brake drum and tire attached traveling 25+ mph. If it would hit someone it would do horrible damage! You are not only playing with your own life and property, but others as well. Something to think about as you work on your Studes.

[JoeHall]

Yes, I was racing well before 1966. A lot of it was on the street back in high school/college days but started racing at Bunker Hill and Stout Field in Indy in the mid 1950's.

Until racing at the strips I didn't experience any axle problems but once entering the U S Nationals in Indy with the '51 in 1962, I went through several axles. Never did break one but always kept an eye for a twisted one. Would jack the rear up and run the car in gear to see if there was any "wobble" and if so, replaced it. If I had not kept an eye out for the "wobble", I'm sure I would have had some broken ones.

I did break one on the Wrapper one night at Muncie. I just finished a run going well over 100 mph and noticed something not right on the return road and opened the door and saw the left rear wheel "wobbling" really bad. Loaded it on the truck and on the way home it broke setting on the truck. Luckily it didn't do much damage other than a slight bend in the rocker panel but shuddered to think what would have happened if it had broken near the end of the run.

Would be very unusual for one to break beyond the start but Malcolm Berry just told me yesterday about that happening to a '57 Chevy at the "Geezer" race at Kil Kare this past weekend so it IS possible.

I was lucky as many have had them break in just normal cars with normal driving. Whether any or all were not assembled properly I have no idea.

Ted

Thanks Ted,
So can you tell us about your experience with Moser FLANGED axles to date? How long have you been running them, any failures, etc. Just the Moser flanged axles please.
Joe

[Mark57]

Looks like you have done a ton of research, and this good info is some of the fruit of your labor. Not sure what the benefit would be for using a Moser kit instead of SI's OEM type axles, but SI's are about half the price of Moser's. Do you know if SI's are NOS or repro? I think I'd be more comfortable with NOS than repro, but that would depend on where the repros come from.

I am fairly sure the S.I. axles are NOS. I am not really worried as the car has the 230 I6 and a Dana 27. I think the axle would "go" before the axle shafts if enough torque were generated.

[QUOTE =nels] Mark, Didn't the truck use larger axles than the passenger style Dana 44? I don't think the breakage problem extended to the truck line? [/QUOTE]

Yes, the axles on my 1/2 ton are more skookum than on the car - although I have not measured them.

Still interested if anyone has heard of a source for the bearing retainer rings.

[avantibngrant]

Check with a bearing house. Sometimes they come with the bearings. I really wonder if the small diameter is why we run into the unpleasentness of broken axles on occassion. well research post. Thanks for sharing.
Neil

[LeoH]

I had one break on a 64 Daytona as I was turning a corner to go to work. The wheel turned the 1/4 panel into scrap, and the wheel kept on going, eventually resting on a sidewalk a good block away. Just think of the mass of a wheel with the complete brake drum and tire attached traveling 25+ mph. If it would hit someone it would do horrible damage! You are not only playing with your own life and property, but others as well. Something to think about as you work on your Studes.

I remember watching someone make a turn and lose a rear axle like that in a Scout 800 years ago. Back when it was still a new(er) vehicle.

[JoeHall]

I remember watching someone make a turn and lose a rear axle like that in a Scout 800 years ago. Back when it was still a new(er) vehicle.

I dunno about IHI Scout, but a flanged axle conversion kit for Jeeps has been available for several decades now. I know some Jeeps used Dana 44s, but not sure if the Jeep kit would fit a Stude. Price would not be much different anyway. The Stude conversion kit seems a bit of a PITA to setup, but probably the first install would be the worst, like most other conversions, i.e. 700R in a Stude.

[Studerick64]

Jaws gear in Sacramento was able to get a set of retainers for my flanged axles. The retainers came out of a wharehouse in Portland ore.

[JoeHall]

Looking at the subject "retainer" elsewhere on-line, it appears to be a band that is pressed on behind the bearing. Dunno why it is needed, unless as an added measure that the bearing will not move, once pressed on. Yes? No? If the press on bearing's interference fit is same for tapered and flanged axles, I am confused as to the need for that retainer. Does the Fairborn kit have those retainers also?

Only other retainer I am familiar with is the outer one, on the brake backing plate, used to draw everything down tightly.


As for installation of the Fairborn kit, I understand the brake housing hole must be enlarged enough to slip over the axle bearing, but that seems like a lot of extra work. When I installed flanged axles on AMC rear end (identical to Stude for this purpose) I slipped the brake housing and outer retainer on the axle ahead of the the bearing, then pressed the bearing on. To dial the end play in, I ground the splined end of the axle a few thousands at a time till real close, then used spacers to set it at .003'.006". (I purposely had Moser make the axles a few thousands too long, since too long is easily fixed, but too short is a deal breaker).To install the spacers, I used scissors to cut them at narrowest point, in order to slip them into place without removing the bearing again. I also had Moser drill about a 1.25" access hole in the flange, for easy access to the outer retainer bolts.

To me, this seems easier and simpler. I'd almost prefer to obtain a set of Dana 44 flanged axles then do the rest this way.

[Mark57]

Jaws gear in Sacramento was able to get a set of retainers for my flanged axles. The retainers came out of a wharehouse in Portland ore.

Thanks for the lead... another one to track down! Hagens Auto Parts in Puyallup Wa. still has a listing for the retainers but has run out of stock.

Joe - to respond to your question, I was advised that the retainer is required to hold the axle shaft in place, not the bearing (which as you noted, is pressed on to the shaft).

[E. Davis]

I too have been researching the Fairborn axle conversion and watched a video on the process. It seems to me that enlarging the backing plate hole is the easiest part of the conversion. The video I watched showed a couple of old guys about like me and with about the same skills doing the conversion but I'm not sure in reality that its quite as simple as it looks. The set up is expensive and although I'm sure its well built I wonder if the cost and effort offsets the somewhat rare chance that a tapered axle will fail. As they say...your car...your money.

[JoeHall]

I too have been researching the Fairborn axle conversion and watched a video on the process. It seems to me that enlarging the backing plate hole is the easiest part of the conversion. The video I watched showed a couple of old guys about like me and with about the same skills doing the conversion but I'm not sure in reality that its quite as simple as it looks. The set up is expensive and although I'm sure its well built I wonder if the cost and effort offsets the somewhat rare chance that a tapered axle will fail. As they say...your car...your money.

I agree,
I am not so worried about the work, once the holes are enlarged, the rest of the job is about same as repacking the rear wheel bearings. But I am still struggling with whether to spend that much money, especially on three cars. One thing I AM gonna do on all three cars is the Ted H. "wobble test". Its easy enough to raise the rear wheels a couple of inches off the ground, let the motor idle, put it in gear, and have someone look closely at the rear tires as they rotate. Any wobble, swap out the axle.