Steering: Anyone have some manual steering parts for an Avanti

[karterfred88]

I'm on a quest for some parts to use to convert my original "bag of snakes" Bendix power steering to an Astro/Safari integral box. As the original set up uses a different bell crank for power and manual, a different reach rod and a different pitman arm, I'm trying to find the manual parts to change it over. They appear or should be much heavier than the power assist style, as these take all the strain rather than sharing it with the hydraulic assist. The manual shows the part numbers, but of course only the reach rod is currently available. Since I know the reach rod and pitman arm will probably need to be "modified/replaced" with some thing else, I don't want to spend a fortune for parts than will probably never be used (except the bell crank arm). But they will help me mock up the right angles so my Avanti won't loose steering radius and I won't have to spend forever calculating the reach rod angles knowing ahead of time what they need to be. I've looked at the other posts on this conversion and most end without particulars on the parts that worked. Anybody got some??

[63r2]

I recently bought a pitman arm of Jon Myers so they are available and not too expensive. I would have thought you could still use the same bellcrank but need a new reach rod. If you did this you would have the manual quick steering option offered by Stude I believe.
I'm sure someone has done it before but I will be interested to see how the Astro box conversion goes. Good luck and keep the progress posted.
Peter

[SN-60]

From my experience with it, I'd say Studebaker DID NOT have radial tires in mind when they offered the 'Quick Ratio Manual' steering option! (Of course, radials weren't available then!)

[karterfred88]

I recently bought a pitman arm of Jon Myers so they are available and not too expensive. I would have thought you could still use the same bellcrank but need a new reach rod. If you did this you would have the manual quick steering option offered by Stude I believe.
I'm sure someone has done it before but I will be interested to see how the Astro box conversion goes. Good luck and keep the progress posted.
Peter

Thanks for the tip on the pitman arm. The bellcrank is different both in location of the reach rod hole and in width from the P/S one since the P/S one has two force acting points, and the ram actually exerts more force than the reach rod, and as the connecting point for it is directly across the bellcrank shaft from the tie rod pivots it has lot better leverage. I've never held one in my hand but since the manual setup has to use a +/- 90 degree arm to the pivot point without the straight line advantage of the ram, I assume it is heftier on the reach rod arm side than the P/S version. Since the integral box will be exerting the same forces as a manual box without the help of a ram, using the manual version would be an asset, even if the other parts have to be made or modified from something else.

[karterfred88]

Since I'm not getting much response, I'm guessing nobody's got them. Since Studebaker probably used mostly off the shelf parts on the Avanti for steering and suspension, both being in a rush to production and cost of redesigning for the Avanti only, I'm hoping that by putting the part numbers here, someone with a manual for C/K and other body styles might be able to cross reference them to find their origin. That might make the search easier and find more possibilities in locating them.
Bell Crank: 1552345
Pitman Arm: 1557161 found it was also used on 59 Lark
Reach rod:either 1542004 or 1561771 found 1542004 was also used on 59 Lark
I know SI has a listing for 1561771 new but since I'm not sure it will work with whatever pitman arm I have to use/modify/make I was hoping for a CASO solution till then.

[Alan]

Neither the C or K used the same box as the Avanti. I had been looking for years for the parts that you have put up here. No one I have ever run across has had an Avanti with manual steering. On mine I used a Pitman arm from Speedway, but it was $70. Then halfway through the swap decided to make it cross steer.

[karterfred88]

Neither the C or K used the same box as the Avanti. I had been looking for years for the parts that you have put up here. No one I have ever run across has had an Avanti with manual steering. On mine I used a Pitman arm from Speedway, but it was $70. Then halfway through the swap decided to make it cross steer.

I bid on 2 63 Avanti's with 4 speeds that had manual steering (Lost both)!! They were admittedly in the minority as were original 3 speeds. The pitman arm can be handled, I'm not too concerned with getting the "right" one. It's probably the same as a 59 up Lark, since the frames are pretty much identical (different body mount bracket locations and I believe 3 inches chopped of the front and rear of the rail stamping) although they probably came with the Ross box. The "standard" manual steer Avanti also came with the Ross and the parts book shows the same pitman for it or the "optional" Bendix 16:1 box. My real concern is the bell crank arm, I'm sure there are still lots of donor Larks out there with manual steering, or some sitting in a SDCer's parts stash . Making a new one could be done, but having the original would allow me to use off the shelf rod ends and only have to create the reach rod by trail and error. If worse comes to worse, I'll use the P/S crank arm, cut off the ram arm and weld on some reinforcement to stiffen the reach rod arm on it. The end of the P/S reach rod could be machined down and threaded to accept a heavy duty rod end and sleeve. I'd still be concerned with the reach rod to bell crank arm ball end, as to whether it was strong enough.

[Alan]

On my 63 Avanti, the Pitman arm hole and spline was larger than the C's, K's and Larks. It used the same size as the 63-64 T Cab trucks, but those Pitman arms are short and the taper is on the wrong side.

[SN-60]

Thanks for the tip on the pitman arm. The bellcrank is different both in location of the reach rod hole and in width from the P/S one since the P/S one has two force acting points, and the ram actually exerts more force than the reach rod, and as the connecting point for it is directly across the bellcrank shaft from the tie rod pivots it has lot better leverage. I've never held one in my hand but since the manual setup has to use a +/- 90 degree arm to the pivot point without the straight line advantage of the ram, I assume it is heftier on the reach rod arm side than the P/S version. Since the integral box will be exerting the same forces as a manual box without the help of a ram, using the manual version would be an asset, even if the other parts have to be made or modified from something else.

I find this thread very interesting. Are you saying that a manual steering bellcrank has a different mechanical advantage (at the reach rod or 'drag link' attachment point) than a power steering bellcrank?

[karterfred88]

Yes. And no. The Bendix set up uses two points of force input for rotational force. Ram and reach rod motion (two different arms on the P/S bell crank). Manual steering one point of force (equal to the two on the P/S set up) the arm that the reach rod end goes into. The twin forces disappear when the pump stops working. Watch the motion (flexing) of a Bendix set up with no hydraulic pressure and watch the different deflections with it. A manual set up needs to handle the deflections as though the power is missing all the time, as does an integral box since it acts like a manual box in relation to the steering linkage. The turning force of the steering wheel is multiplied before it gets to the pitman arm in an integral box, not after as on the Bendix set up.

[sals54]

Am I missing something here??? Why not simply use the Lark bell crank and reach rod? Then, using the Avanti pitman arm, you could have it machined to fit the Lark reach rod.

[karterfred88]

I would, if I could find a Lark manual bell crank, and a manual steer Avanti/Lark pitman arm. That's what I'm looking for! The P/S pitman arm on my Avanti is cocked inward and the control valve ball fitting area is too small and thin(weak) to take a reach rod end if drilled out.
By the way I'm sorry it's so hot there in Sacto hope it cools off fast and you get some rain.

[61Lark]

Bell Crank: 1552345
Pitman Arm: 1557161 found it was also used on 59 Lark
Reach rod:either 1542004 or 1561771 found 1542004 was also used on 59 Lark

I don't have my books here. Are the parts only found on a 59 Lark or would they be found on a 60 also? How about 63 Lark manual steering parts, would they work?

[sals54]

I would, if I could find a Lark manual bell crank, and a manual steer Avanti/Lark pitman arm. That's what I'm looking for! The P/S pitman arm on my Avanti is cocked inward and the control valve ball fitting area is too small and thin(weak) to take a reach rod end if drilled out.
By the way I'm sorry it's so hot there in Sacto hope it cools off fast and you get some rain.

Thanks for the note about the heat. Its already cooled off, thank goodness. Its down to a balmy 95. We just had some brutal 90% humidity for a couple days with temps in the mid 90s. I don't know how ya'll do it every year in the South. I was dyin. I'll take 105* dry heat any day of the week compared to the high humidity. UGH ! ! !
And BTW, those Lark parts are a dime a dozen. Put out the call for Lark parts specifically and they'll be raining down on you for free.

[karterfred88]

Thanks for the note about the heat. Its already cooled off, thank goodness. Its down to a balmy 95. We just had some brutal 90% humidity for a couple days with temps in the mid 90s. I don't know how ya'll do it every year in the South. I was dyin. I'll take 105* dry heat any day of the week compared to the high humidity. UGH ! ! !
And BTW, those Lark parts are a dime a dozen. Put out the call for Lark parts specifically and they'll be raining down on you for free.

Sal, Since you've been on here a long time, would it be best to just start a new thread, so I could experience the "raining down" of the parts I need??
By the way, I worked as an appraiser outside all the time in the Sac area for over 25 years, and Hot is Hot, dry or not. Here in Delaware we are not really in the South, so it's hasn't been too bad, a couple of 90's but mostly low to mid 80's.