Hot Studebakers

[plee4139]

A letter I wrote to the editors at Old Car Weekly is printed in the July 24th issue. It disputes the widely held belief that the Pontiac GTO was the first muscle car. You're welcome.

[SN-60]

The Pontiac GTO WAS the first muscle car sold in high volume......numbers that astounded Pontiac management at the time....and caused the other carmakers to take serious notice. The GTO legacy must be respected.

[drpreposterous]

Volume shmolume. First is first. That must be respected as well.

[8E45E]

Sounds familiar: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...muscle+century

Craig

[Dan White]

It all depends on what you count as muscle car. One could easily count the '56 Golden Hawk as a muscle car and it did sell in volume.

[Pat Dilling]

Or the Olds Rocket 88 or the Chrysler 300 or the Max Wedge Dodges and Plymouths, Super Duty Pontiacs, Ford Cobras, and Chevy 409s . All that aside, it is hard to dispute that the GTO triggered an avalanche of high powered American mid size cars.

[plee4139]

Amen, broter!

[jclary]

A letter I wrote to the editors at Old Car Weekly is printed in the July 24th issue. It disputes the widely held belief that the Pontiac GTO was the first muscle car. You're welcome.

I have noticed, from magazine articles, to "Coffee Table Show Books," how Studebaker is virtually ignored in the muscle car discussions. I'd appreciate it if you would share your letter with us here. Waaay back before Studebaker was on my radar (I was only about ten), I recall my older brother (now deceased) talking 'bout a high school classmate, Mitchell Britton (Later...killed piloting his WWII Aircraft around 1962) embarrassing other classmates (in their dad's cars) while driving his dad's mid-fifties Commander.

Even more remarkable, was that Mitch was the last person you'd expect to be kicking his dad's car around. Mitch was an intellectual looking (wire framed glasses & all) mild mannered kid who otherwise made straight "A"s, and never cussed. I rarely gave much thought to the wild tale exploits my brother related about many of his classmates. However, because it was Mitchell...that got my attention.

As to "Muscle cars"...if there had been roads, and tires, of sufficient quality to allow the speeds they were capable of, some of the cars of the thirties and forties, could probably qualify.

[Chris Pile]

I was talking to some Mopar guys once and mentioned Studebaker Challengers and Daytonas, and they gave me a look like I had suddenly grown a 2nd head. So I said, "YEAH, we had 'em before you guys did".

[Silverplate]

I was talking to some Mopar guys once and mentioned Studebaker Challengers and Daytonas, and they gave me a look like I had suddenly grown a 2nd head. So I said, "YEAH, we had 'em before you guys did".

Awesome Chris!

[Hallabutt]

Just to muddy the waters a bit. I picked up on John's last two lines of #8 indicating that if there had been roads, tires that they were capable of cars of the thirties and forties, could probably qualify. My feeling is that given any time frame there was always the opportunity for the fastest, most powerful cars of their time, to go as fast as they were capable of going. If the paving that started in earnest in the twenties was not capable of the high speeds there was always the track.

I think that it was Hemming's Classic Car that did a big article on the first muscle car. I agreed wholeheartedly with them that putting a large engine in a medium sized car was nothing new in the sixties. From the early days of motoring it was being done with the cars being referred to as speedsters. When other issues like price and production figures were used to help define the breed, it narrowed the field significantly. Remember the term "muscle car" was not part of our vernacular until the seventies or even eighties so it could easily be applied to any car meeting that kind of open ended definition and built before the term's usage began. Unfortunately their choice for the first muscle car was, what I had expected, the late thirties Buick Century. Packard might have started the trend in 1924 with their straight eight and a smaller production body, but when price became a defining feature, it was kicked out.

I felt that Studebaker was never given the credit it was due in the article. Going back to the middle twenties the Sheriff with its light body and big 354 cu." engine had to be one of the earliest "muscle cars." Then in 1928 when Studebaker developed it's own straight it immediately put it in a small roadster body with a wheel base of only 122" and people took it racing. On the track on hill climbs and on the open roads it was really a trend setter. I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong on any of this. Then of course there was the "Four Seasons", but by then most of the other independent car makers were on the band wagon with their own straight eight and light body offerings. So my vote for the first "muscle car" had to go to Studebaker but almost forty years before the cars talked about in this thread!-Bill

[63larkr1]

I was talking to some Mopar guys once and mentioned Studebaker Challengers and Daytonas, and they gave me a look like I had suddenly grown a 2nd head. So I said, "YEAH, we had 'em before you guys did".

Chris,
Same thing happened to me at the Melt Down Drags. I was racing our 1964 Challenger in Super Stock and some MOPAR guys thought I just put Challenger on the fender from a Dodge. Why would I do that?
Richard

[allstudedude]

My 2 cents worth..
It depends on the definition of "muscle car", which is a bit rubbery IMHO. If the definition is low priced, base appointments, big HP, small body. Then I don't know if anything from the 20's to 40's would qualify, none of the big HP cars were cheap and most were big bodies. The 50's, I believe, produced a few contenders. Perhaps Hudson's with twin carbs but I don't know their price bracket or interior appointments. The Rocket 88, again depending on price. I don't think the 57GH would qualify due to price and interiors, same goes for the '57 Rambler big HP certainly but price and interiors could drop them out.
The Daytona and Challenger would fit the above description to a T. (That's why I want one)

[Studerick64]

1957 Rambler Rebel 327 T-85 0-60 time 7.5 seconds a definite contender.

[clonelark]

Buick Century's used the Special body with a Roadmaster engine. The 1941 had dual carburetors, A real hot rod before WWII.
For 1954 Buick Century's would hold their own on the drag strip. If more people would have run their 55 Speedsters at the drag strips of the day would probably done alright. There were a lot of 56 Golden Hawks in 1956 They were put in the S/S class.
So you could call the Golden Hawks the first super stocker.