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View Full Version : Rear Axle: Rear end set up



tripowerman
07-22-2014, 11:25 AM
Here's what I'm doing. Getting ready to install R-4 engine in an F-3 4 speed car. The transmission is Chrysler A-833 overdrive unit.
The car currently has a Dana 27 non posi with 3.07 gears. I would like to go with a 9 inch Ford rear end with a minimum of 3:73
gears. Or should I stick to a Dana 44 twin traction? Its not going to be a race car. On the contrary, all I want is a reliable street
machine and highway cruiser. What say you out there in Studebakerdom

DEEPNHOCK
07-22-2014, 11:36 AM
A Dana 44 'Twin Traction' with flanged axles would be durable enough, and more appropriate (from a historical viewpoint).

However, the Ford 9" will give you an option to change 'nuggets' (gear assy) to get different ratios a bit easier.
You can order a 9" Ford style housing to the exact width you desire (helps with maximizing tire/wheel well opportunities).
Ford housings setups are very reasonably priced as of late,
and nuggets are readily available from used race parts suppliers (especially in the SE USA).

Sounds like a fun project!

Alan
07-22-2014, 12:08 PM
I am going to get some flack from this, but. Since you have a 27 in there now I would go with the 9". I have 5 Studes and they all have 9" in them. You can build a carrier in a weekend and with the Currie 31 spline axle you will never break one. The A 833 OD was a bad design, gear ratio wise and when running them a number of years ago I had problems with the shift levers in the side of the case.

Mike Van Veghten
07-22-2014, 12:29 PM
The main problem with the 9"...it robs horse power...!
Because of the design of the 9" higher (thAn normal) offset ring and pinion there is a "measurable" friction increase (read that HP loss) with this gear/axle design. While it IS about the strongest thing going for normal street cars...is it really required for your application ?
And per Jeffs comment, while it does making swapping gears MUCH easier, how many non-racer type people actually do this ? I've known zero.

And for my "robs power" comment, while it IS measurable, it isn't a lot...but with the "low" powered Studebaker engines (I'd say 95% under 300hp), in my opinion, the Stude engine can't give up any to additional parasitic losses.

I just put a Dana 44 in my soon to be daily driver 54 wagon. Narrowed 4", new gear driven Posi, new 31 spline axles, new Ford disc brakes.
But then...my other 54 wagon has a Quick Change axle in it. There's twice as many gears in that one. There's probably more friction/parasitic loss in that thAn the 44, but my guess...still less thAn the 9".

My vote is for the Dana 44 and 3.73 gears. With the overdrive, this will provide the best of both worlds, street power along with the overdrives highway capibilitys. Most all of the overdrives trans. builders I've talked to, read about, recommend the 3.73 gear for a good match of street and highway.

Mike

"Nugget"...that's one I've never heard before..! Must be an east coast thing !?

DEEPNHOCK
07-22-2014, 12:46 PM
Could be... Common term in the midwest and southeast..
(Easier to say 'nugget' with a mouthful of 'chew' than to try and say/spray 'center section':rolleyes::whome:)


<snip>
"Nugget"...that's one I've never heard before..! Must be an east coast thing !?

Mike Van Veghten
07-22-2014, 03:34 PM
Funny...

Mike

mapman
07-22-2014, 03:50 PM
I understand that streetable R4 is an oxymoron. Please explain further?
Rob

Flashback
07-22-2014, 06:23 PM
The main problem with the 9"...it robs horse power...!
Because of the design of the 9" higher (thAn normal) offset ring and pinion there is a "measurable" friction increase (read that HP loss) with this gear/axle design. While it IS about the strongest thing going for normal street cars...is it really required for your application ?
And per Jeffs comment, while it does making swapping gears MUCH easier, how many non-racer type people actually do this ? I've known zero.

And for my "robs power" comment, while it IS measurable, it isn't a lot...but with the "low" powered Studebaker engines (I'd say 95% under 300hp), in my opinion, the Stude engine can't give up any to additional parasitic losses.

I just put a Dana 44 in my soon to be daily driver 54 wagon. Narrowed 4", new gear driven Posi, new 31 spline axles, new Ford disc brakes.
But then...my other 54 wagon has a Quick Change axle in it. There's twice as many gears in that one. There's probably more friction/parasitic loss in that thAn the 44, but my guess...still less thAn the 9".

My vote is for the Dana 44 and 3.73 gears. With the overdrive, this will provide the best of both worlds, street power along with the overdrives highway capibilitys. Most all of the overdrives trans. builders I've talked to, read about, recommend the 3.73 gear for a good match of street and highway.

Mike

"Nugget"...that's one I've never heard before..! Must be an east coast thing !?

Might be ya understand " Chunk", better than nugget? LOL LOL Differential center section, Carrier, Nugget, Chunk.

starliner62
07-22-2014, 06:28 PM
It's a "punkin"

bezhawk
07-22-2014, 07:26 PM
I always hear the term pumpkin for the center section. The stock R4 is way over carbed for street use. If you run it @ 7000 rpm and don't vary the RPM, then it may just work fine for you!:rolleyes:
Anything can be modified to work better. I've rebuilt 3 sets of R4 Carbs, and can modify them for better throttle response.

Jerry Forrester
07-22-2014, 08:51 PM
IMHO, the best way to get an R4 to run better is, Take the butterflies out of the front carb and install a solid plate under it.


I always hear the term pumpkin for the center section. The stock R4 is way over carbed for street use. If you run it @ 7000 rpm and don't vary the RPM, then it may just work fine for you!:rolleyes:
Anything can be modified to work better. I've rebuilt 3 sets of R4 Carbs, and can modify them for better throttle response.

tripowerman
07-28-2014, 03:28 PM
That's the advice I was lookin for. The guy who built the R-4 engine has a Dana 44 TT that came out of a 64 Avanti and I'll get him to recondition it and then I'll
bolt it on to the F-4 along with a set of SI traction bars and rear stabilizer bar. That oughta do me. appreciate the earlier reply outta
(how do you say it Wet Tump Ka?)

Flashback
07-28-2014, 04:34 PM
That's the advice I was lookin for. The guy who built the R-4 engine has a Dana 44 TT that came out of a 64 Avanti and I'll get him to recondition it and then I'll
bolt it on to the F-4 along with a set of SI traction bars and rear stabilizer bar. That oughta do me. appreciate the earlier reply outta
(how do you say it Wet Tump Ka?)

Originally it was We wa tumpkis . It's pronounces We tump ka. LOl Some say it means rumbling waters (we are on the banks of the Coosa river) My Great Grandmother (Half Cherokee)taught me it meant: We will go no farther. The shoals/rapids begin at Wetumpka and go North, hence this meaning.

56pres
07-28-2014, 07:53 PM
How about a hogs head. Very common when I was young.

Dan White
07-29-2014, 06:24 AM
Just curious as to the choice of the A833 instead of a 200 4R? Plenty of adapters for the GM trans out there not so much the Chrysler units.