Steering: Power Steering Pressure Hose Routing from Pump

[karterfred88]

Hi guys,
Well I ran into a little bump in installing my new hoses. All the prior hose routing posts, as helpful as they were seem to deal with 64 and up Avanti. As you know the left apron and battery box area is different on the early ones. Well, as the old hoses were "home made" to be polite and were routed pretty much as described in the earlier posts, I went to put the new pressure hose on the pump and remount the pump assuming the hose would fall naturally where it should go--wrong. As I tried to show in the photos, it wants to go either down to the cross member or, if coaxed way up in the air and around the regulator. There are no signs of any clip mount areas except at the top flat area behind the regulator, nothing else. Any ideas where to route it? Or should I re-bend the "L in the hose to make it work!"

[karterfred88]

Since no solutions were offered I installed the hoses best possible. No way would they fit as per prior posts. Way too short to go up and around the voltage regulator and the bend on the pressure hose ensured there would be no way to get to where others have gotten theirs. I sent both to the apron, up and in front of the regulator back to the corner of the tower and apron joint, down around the solenoid to the frame, over the brake line block, wrapped to the bottom and held with one clamp. Even at that there was no extra hose and the curves at the valve are pretty tight. works but just barely. I want to support our vendors, but there is no way anyone has tried to use these as a one to one replacement while the valve was still on the pitman arm and still installed on the reach rod. Not one of the attack angles of the flare nuts was even close. Had to message every one of them. The return hose to valve tube ran straight down on top of the grease fitting when you finally get it engaged and I had to take it off four times to put a kink in it to clear the grease fitting. The left turn hose is shorter than the right turn hose by at least 2 inches and doesn't follow the arc of the right turn hose coming forward and applies pressure to the tube because it's too short. Have any of you received a set of hoses you didn't need to "tweak" (being polite) and if so what source. I'm leaving out my source in hopes they will look more closely at their stock and have a long talk with their supplier.

[StudeRich]

I don't believe it matters which Stude. Vendor these came from, as I am pretty sure they are Single Sourced from our Studebaker Wholesaler.
However I have to wonder about that Control Valve.
Is there a reason it is painted Ford Turquoise GREEN? Studebaker used a similar color on the Engine in '56 & '57 but that was before Bendix (Ford Type ) Power Steering.

I know the Bendix/Ford system is SIMILAR and shares SOME Parts, but I doubt ALL of them are exactly the same.

[Bob Andrews]

I don't know if it helps, but the Daytona I'm working on right now has them routed right down between the steering box and exhaust manifold. They are held away from the exhaust manifold with a spring wrapped in rubber. It looks like a jury rig, but could that be the way they built them?

[63r2]

Yes I think you are right, all the hoses need some type of massaging to get them to work.
I just attached mine on a bare chassis and it was a task. The return line and power line seem to me to be way to long and could be routed a lot easier and neater than running it up the inner apron. That being said I have a transition body with the 63 inner apron and I noticed a hole drilled at what would be below and at the end of the brake booster location . I assume it is for the power steering. As I said the body isn't on so I have clipped them to one of the steering box bolts and will attach them to the body when it gets one.
pb

[karterfred88]

I wondered about the turquoise paint also, but it's also on the pitman arm. Maybe rebuilt at one time by a Ford guy?? Looks almost like an early Stude color. The valve and pitman are the right ones as the ends all engaged and fit the threads. I used Mike Mudd's post from 2002 as the one posted in 2007 routed the left turn hose on the frame side of the valve after re-bending and that's where my problem was, as the lines were cutting into the return hose side. I couldn't use the old hoses as a guide since some one had reused the tube portion going into the control valve and "adapted" an off the shelf hydraulic hose to them and re-bent the others as "needed". Worked but a real mess. The advantage of the homemade ones were that the pressure and return were so long they easily went from the pump up the apron behind the battery, around the regulator and then down to the frame and wrapped to the valve. Unfortunately they also leaked at all the joints-just a little.

[karterfred88]

Yes I think you are right, all the hoses need some type of massaging to get them to work.
I just attached mine on a bare chassis and it was a task. The return line and power line seem to me to be way to long and could be routed a lot easier and neater than running it up the inner apron. That being said I have a transition body with the 63 inner apron and I noticed a hole drilled at what would be below and at the end of the brake booster location . I assume it is for the power steering. As I said the body isn't on so I have clipped them to one of the steering box bolts and will attach them to the body when it gets one.
pb

I think when you get the body on the frame that about one inch hole in the apron behind the "A" arm kick up will "almost" line up with the steering box pitman shaft adjusting screw (on a left hand drive car). Carefully check all the corners in the battery box area for cracks, seems like the battery "box" is not strong enough to support the 40 lb. battery.

[WCP]

The pressure and return hoses on the Avanti should leave the control valve rearward and then bend forward to the front of the steering box where they bend upward around the front of the steering box, loop upward onto the apron, where they are held with a clamp and then pass forward beneath the rearward terminals of the regulator (and above the starter relay) and wrap forward around the apron "tower" to the pump. Once installed, check to ensure that there is not contact between the pitman arm and any tubing through the full sweep motion of the valve and that there is enough hose length to accommodate the vale sweep.
If the hoses won't follow this routing, then they have to be the wrong hoses.

[karterfred88]

The pressure and return hoses on the Avanti should leave the control valve rearward and then bend forward to the front of the steering box where they bend upward around the front of the steering box, loop upward onto the apron, where they are held with a clamp and then pass forward beneath the rearward terminals of the regulator (and above the starter relay) and wrap forward around the apron "tower" to the pump. Once installed, check to ensure that there is not contact between the pitman arm and any tubing through the full sweep motion of the valve and that there is enough hose length to accommodate the vale sweep.
If the hoses won't follow this routing, then they have to be the wrong hoses.

Checked with SI and the hoses are "correct" per them. Tried to do it the way you described but as the pressure hose outlets back toward the apron and past the front of the tower by at least 2 inches only a 90 degree plus bend in the hose would get it there and then it was 3-4 inches too short. The left turn hose routed as per Mike Mudd to keep it on the other side of the valve and the bend is the same as his photos puts it 1-2 inches shorter than the right turn hose, causing a very tight condition to the ram when turned full lock. It works my way but it's not right. After buggering all the hose ends to get them to fit, I'm sure getting an exchange on them would be out of the question. That's why I asked if there was a supplier that anyone had used that didn't cause the above problems. It's in and I just want to get the car inspected and licensed so I can drive it, collect the right parts and do it again (more torture). The hoses don't leak anymore, the pump id now leak free, but of course the control valve that wasn't leaking, now is dripping off the end cap lower screw. Probably a sign that the inner seals have gone out to lunch, but I'm going to pull the cap and seal the screws for now to see how long I can get away with that, really not looking forward to pulling that apart!! I found these two cars and the pump pressure hose both go in straight!!

[WCP]

These pictures may help. Unfortunately, the one of the pump hose connections is very dark at that point, but you can make out the hoses leaving the pump rearward to the apron and wrapping around the "tower" beneath the regulator terminals.

[karterfred88]

Big help!! Seems pump hoses in your photos go down behind the steering gear not in front of it. After some hard looking it seems the hoses on this car have been routed both ways at one time or another. I found some "notch" marks in the inner frame rail flange about where they would pass this way, and also some "notches in the lower rail just in front of the spot where the rail "kinks" as it goes to the front cross member. Indicates over the last 50 years all sorts of routing was tried. Only problem I see for this routing is: 1) I have no sleeve described in the repair manual and shown on yours, 2) how do you avoid getting tangled up in the parking brake cable as it moves back and forth, or does the sleeve protect it by sacrificing itself rubbing against it? I'll try it, will mean redoing my new brake lines located in about the same area the hoses will need to move, but beats what I had. Also, there is no factory nut in the apron or hole where your clamp holds the lines running down to the steering box. I guess this has been a "work-in-progress" for the last 50 years. My next move will be to get rid of this mess forever, either by an "Electrasteer" power unit on the column or engineering an Astro reverse steer box and do away with this mess once and for all. Many thanks for the photos, almost had it right, just went in front of the steering gear and over the rail, instead of behind, which will free up a lot of hose. Won't fix the left steer hose as I still think it's 1-2 inches too short since it applies stress to the tube at the valves rearmost position.

[63r2]

That's where the hole is in my apron and it also doesn't have a captured nut arrangement. The factory obviously decided to use a nut and bolt instead.
Thanks for the photo's WCP.
pb

[Mike]

My Oct. '63 Avanti has only a 1/4" hole for the clamp bolt on the apron. There is no nut plate molded in the fiberglass, like for other components. This makes me think the routing in front of the steering box is a revision. Maybe the version drawn in the parts book, with the spring, was an early version. It's also possible Stude just used a Lark or Hawk drawing. Sometimes they did things like that.
The single apron clamp, and the associated bolt and nut, are listed in the Dec. '63 parts book; maybe with the pump. I do remember the two clamps for the hoses to the ram are on another page. I looked for the spring, but didn't find it. Is it in the earlier parts book?
By the way, I had no problem at all with the hoses to the ram, routed as shown in the parts book, and my photo of the control valve.
Mike M.

[karterfred88]

My Oct. '63 Avanti has only a 1/4" hole for the clamp bolt on the apron. There is no nut plate molded in the fiberglass, like for other components. This makes me think the routing in front of the steering box is a revision. Maybe the version drawn in the parts book, with the spring, was an early version. It's also possible Stude just used a Lark or Hawk drawing. Sometimes they did things like that.
The single apron clamp, and the associated bolt and nut, are listed in the Dec. '63 parts book; maybe with the pump. I do remember the two clamps for the hoses to the ram are on another page. I looked for the spring, but didn't find it. Is it in the earlier parts book?
By the way, I had no problem at all with the hoses to the ram, routed as shown in the parts book, and my photo of the control valve.
Mike M.

I have the Dec 63 parts book also, there was or must have been an earlier book as the Dec 63 shows the 64 variations for "after serial # ***)> Mine was produced on Sept 21, 1962-- and as such has some teething problems later probably fixed in production. I think it may have had the "spring and cradle" originally so there would not have been any apron holes at all as the spring set up bolted to the steering box. Of course the drawing in the parts book shows no bends to the tubes for the pressure and return lines at the valve at all--just straight forward and to the pump. Not sure how they kept that away from the exhaust and rubbing on the frame edge where the bottom plate and u channel are welded. Just one of many mysteries I will have to wade through on this poor car.

[WCP]

The drawing of the hoses in the parts books is totally misleading. The hoses on my car do in fact fasten to the apron and pass forward around the front of the steering box. I'll try to get some better pictures of that detail tomorrow. The sleeve you see in the one photo is simply a length of bicycle tube to keep the hoses together and free from any contact with the clutch bell crank etc. and not a factory item.