Electrical: Drop in Alternator replacement for Prestolite generator on 1964 289?

[pbrown]

If I do indeed keep my Studebaker 289 in my 59 Silver Hawk instead of swapping to a new engine, I'm thinking an alternator would be a good thing.

I panics me a bit when I see the Ammeter go to discharge at idle...

So is there a drop in Alternator replacement for my Prestolite generator?

And should I change my Amp Meter to a Voltmeter?

Or should I just not be so uptight about all this, and quit looking at that darned gauge so much?

[RadioRoy]

I do not know about replacement alternators, but personally I would never eliminate the ammeter. To me, the voltmeter is as functional as an idiot light.

[JoeHall]

Easiest route is to graft an alternator mount onto the generator mount. For that, you can use a 1963 and later Stude alternator mount, or SBC mount available at FLAPS. I prefer the 1-wire alternators to generators and to OEM Stude alternators. Have installed 1-wires on every Stude owned since the late 1980s, from 1956 through 1965 Studes.

Have never changed an ammeter out, and they all worked just fine. Matter of fact, the 1-wire alternators on the 62GT and 56J both work exactly same as the 1-wire on the 63GT. The 63GT likely came with a voltmeter, since it originally had an alternator, but it reads same as the others.

I prefer 60-70 amp alternators, in the 1-wire version.

[StudeRich]

A VOLT Meter on a Studebaker? I don't think so Joe.

A Volt Meter just taps into a Power source and reads the system Voltage, as Roy said, no better than a Idiot Light!

The advantage of the Ammeter is that, you can tell what your actual CHARGING Circuit is doing, BEFORE it kills the Battery, not after, like a Voltmeter.

I would love to see the wiring diagram of how you wired a One Wire GM Alt. that requires a trigger wire or High RPM to charge, through a Ammeter.

If I were using a Delco, I would use the real setup, the Factory 3 wire one.

[JoeHall]

A VOLT Meter on a Studebaker? I don't think so Joe.

A Volt Meter just taps into a Power source and reads the system Voltage, as Roy said, no better than a Idiot Light!

The advantage of the Ammeter is that, you can tell what your actual CHARGING Circuit is doing, BEFORE it kills the Battery, not after, like a Voltmeter.

I would love to see the wiring diagram of how you wired a One Wire GM Alt. that requires a trigger wire or High RPM to charge, to a Ammeter.

If I were using a Delco, I would use the real setup, the Factory 3 wire one.

I don't know a volt meter from an ammeter. Whatever is OEM on the car is what I run; never replaced the OEM meter with anything else when running an alternator. If there is a difference in meters, I'd think it would begin in 1963, when alternators came stock on Studes.

Oh ye of litle faith Wiring a 1-wire alternator is simple: For starters get rid of all the OEM generator & regulator wires but the "hot wire"; do whatever you want with them; I usually cut them off and insulate them. Then run that hot wire to the hot post on the alternator, held on by a 10mm nut.

With the early 1-wires (don't see them very often anymore), it was then necessary to run a jumper wire from the alternator's spade type, plug-in receptacle (either spade), up to the alternator hot post. With that setup, its necessary to "kick" the RPM up to 1500-2000 very briefly to start the alternator charging. After that, it will continue to charge till the motor is shut off.

An improvement to the early setup came later and is still available today (see the ebay link), with a diode in the jumper wire, which resulted in instant charging (no more "kicking" the RPM up). http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delco-Altern...ae49e5&vxp=mtr


With the latest ones, just plug the generator hot wire to the hot post on the alternator, do away with the other wires, and you are done. They come with a rubber plug in the spaded plug in receptacle, and you can just leave it in place. They charge instantly, as the ones mentioned above with diodes in the jumper wire.

Once done, charging problems are over. Now days, I buy the Duralast brand at Atozone with lifetime guarantee, and do not believe I have had to return one yet

[StudeRich]

?Cut/Oh yea of litle faith Wiring a 1-wire alternator is simple: For starters run the hot wire, that used to run from generator to battery, to the hot post on the alternator, held on by a 10mm nut. With the early 1-wires (don't see them very often anymore), it was then necessary to run a jumper wire from the alternator's spade type, plug-in receptacle (either spade), up to the alternator hot post. With that setup, its necessary to "kick" the RPM up to 1500-2000 very briefly to start the alternator charging. After that, it will continue to charge till the motor is shut off./Cut/

You might have misunderstood my intent Joe, I know it is the easiest thing in the world to Wire one of these One Wire GM's to WORK, but what I would like is for it to work CORRECTLY.

To do that, the Charge Power must flow TO the Ammeter to show a Charge, bi-passing it makes the Ammeter non-functional or totally inaccurate, by not deleting the current draw (Usage) from the Alt. output reading.

[JoeHall]

Rich, if I am not mistaken (don't have a wiring diagram handy), the hot wire I referred to above runs directly to the ammeter. Note the ammeter in the pic, which is with the AC on high, and the EFI operating. The more current draw, the higher the ammeter reads, i.e. turn on the headlights, wipers and heater on, and it would read just a tad higher than is does in the pic. With EFI, both GTs always run higher than the 56J, which has alternator but still has a carburetor.

[StudeRich]

It is showing about 20 Amps charge of the 35 Total Max of the Ammeter, meaning on a stock setup that the Battery is low on charge from a former usage, Headlights, starting etc. or there is currently high usage from Headlights AND A/C or some other high draw unit, causing the high charge since center is normal.

But I don't think all of your "Draw" (usage) and Alt. Regulated Output is going through the Ammeter, probably it's just showing the Alt. output which at this time was high for some reason on your "modified" one wire, wiring setup. As I said it WILL work, just not the way it was designed.

Just an AC Fan and clutch trigger should not read that much charge, the Regulator would increase the output to make up for the small load and show a low or no charge.
Back to my original post, It makes me wonder if there is a way to do this right WITH an Ammeter?
Now we need Dr. Gord's technical HELP! I always know how a Studebaker should perform, but not always WHY.

Holy smoke, I just noticed that you were going 60 Miles an Hour at 3000 RPM, just the time it took you to get there from a stop, would have been enough time to fully charge any Low Voltage in my Batt. and drop my Cars Ammeter to 0 easily with only a 30-35 Amp. Prestolite.

[JoeHall]

Rich,
The car was going an INDICATED 60 MPH (70-71 actual, per GPS) at an INDICATED 2000 RPM (2200-2300 actual). That was on the 5100 mile trip recently. You missed the mention of EFI above, which probably draws more current than all other combined. The ammeter is very consistent, and has always read a little high since the EFI was installed over 23,000 miles ago. The above pic was taken about midway between Kingman and Vegas, and the car had not been stopped or shut off for at least 50 miles, so the alternator was not working extra hard trying to recharge the battery; it has indicated about that same reading, anytime the AC is on, since installing the EFI.

This ammeter still reads as "correct" as ever, in the 290,000+ miles I have owned the car. If nothing else, it is very consistent. Someone else may need to fix theirs, but mine work just fine as is, including all three Hawks currently owned.

[gordr]

Having owned several later-model vehicles with voltmeters, they can and do tell you plenty about the electrical system. If it shows you less than 12.6 volts, key on, engine off, then you know the battery is discharged. If it fails to show about 14.2 volts running down the road, then either the alternator output is weak, or it is working hard trying to charge a near-dead battery (which you ought to have noticed, key on, engine off). If it shows a lot higher than 14.2 volts, you may have a bad regulator, or faulty connections in the charging circuit. Remember Ohm's law, it says E=IR. That means volts and amps are related reciprocally.

Ideally, we would have both, but either alone is way better than an idiot light alone.

[JoeHall]

Having owned several later-model vehicles with voltmeters, they can and do tell you plenty about the electrical system. If it shows you less than 12.6 volts, key on, engine off, then you know the battery is discharged. If it fails to show about 14.2 volts running down the road, then either the alternator output is weak, or it is working hard trying to charge a near-dead battery (which you ought to have noticed, key on, engine off). If it shows a lot higher than 14.2 volts, you may have a bad regulator, or faulty connections in the charging circuit. Remember Ohm's law, it says E=IR. That means volts and amps are related reciprocally.

Ideally, we would have both, but either alone is way better than an idiot light alone.

Your description of a volt meter is ringing a bell from a BMW "boxer" motor cycle, I owned in the late 1970s-mid 1980s. Lotsa BMW folks did not care for the volt meter, but it was what it was. It communicated plenty to the rider, but only if the rider knew how to interpret what it was saying. In that sense, kinda like an ammeter, I suppose.

[Bordeaux Daytona]

There was a couple of threads here on using a Honda alternator a few years back.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?3856-64-Prestolite-Honda-Alternator-conversion

Here too

http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/Alternator/Honda/hondaalt.html

Chrysler alternator has been used too.

http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/Alternator/Chrysler/moparalt.html

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?3543-Wanted-Prestolite-Alternator-for-64

[pbrown]

If I understand, the ammeter connections are passing all the current for the whole car (it has to, or it wouldn't be accurate - right?)

I guess my thought is that those connections are a failure waiting to happen on a 55 year old car, and I believe that failure either means I'm stranded or my car catches on fire.

So if I change to a volt meter, I could take that failure prone piece out of the equation.

Please correct me if I'm off base.

[StudeRich]

Yes, you are correct according to SOME people, BUT I have yet to hear of that ever happening to a Studebaker after owning dozens over 54 years, and knowing of hundreds, how about you?

The only "dead short" I am aware of, is the Ignition Switch Bezel breaking and allowing the Batt. Terminal on the switch to ground on the Dash frame on '63 to '66 Lark Types.

[JoeHall]

If I understand, the ammeter connections are passing all the current for the whole car (it has to, or it wouldn't be accurate - right?)

I guess my thought is that those connections are a failure waiting to happen on a 55 year old car, and I believe that failure either means I'm stranded or my car catches on fire.

So if I change to a volt meter, I could take that failure prone piece out of the equation.

Please correct me if I'm off base.

You know, since you put it that way, it is kinda scary. It is a "hot wire" in every sense of the word, from beginning to end. On a couple of occasions, when too lazy to disconnect the battery, I have accidentally grounded that hot wire a second or so. Though as Rich mentioned its almost unheard of, I still shudder to think what would happen if a short went un-noticed, even for 30 seconds. Wonder if a person could install an in-line fusible link. It would have to be a large capacity one, I am sure.