Brakes: ABS on a Studebaker

[Springstreet]

[rockne10]

If I had the option of eliminating ABS in any vehicle, I would go out of my way to do so! (Stated as a truck fleet manager).
Maybe some folks brains are not better than the computers, sensors and tone rings on those ABS systems. Your experience may vary.

[StudeRich]

I see no advantage to overcomplicating a well Engineered System that works well when left stock or even better when converted to a Turner Brake upgrade kit.

[rockne10]

Well, the advantage, Rich , is that you can put someone behind the wheel who has no clue how to drive and the computer may--underscore may-- permit them to choose what they will run in to.
To be fair, this is only based on my five years of driving taxi, thirty years as a professional trucker, then ten years as a fleet manager. It's entirely possible that I am full of s**t and my hat don't fit.

Having said that, I have in no way assisted Doug in the technical pursuit of his ABS installation.
If he can ignore my biased experience, hopefully someone on the other fence can provide the technical expertise he requests.

[sweetolbob]

Springstreet

ABS has been a great addition to vehicles driven by the Vox Populi as it does assist the average driver in stopping safely particularly under adverse road conditions. That said, I'll join the others is just putting the best brakes I can on my Classic Cars.

My disclaimer though is if you do go ahead with this modification, please post the construction and final results as it can help a lot of folks in the future to upgrade to ABS.

Also, just because I have no suggestions currently, please ask as you go along as I don't think the folks on the forum want to do anything but help. Our opinions are just the viewpoint of older folks that grew up driving without ABS. But if you are working to improve the old technology then I can't see why most of us won't add constructive suggestions.

Neat project, Bob

[Mike Van Veghten]

On one had, I agree with the others...in general.

On the other hand, if you drive on the track and push the car right to the very edge of it's limits...then yea, ABS can be of great benifet. Come-on you'd be called a sissy-boy in the 60's/70's NASCAR for wanting power steering and better working brakes...NOW they are there..!

Well...in thinking a little more...maybe accident avoidance ABS could be of a benifet...one of those AAH-S#!T moments.
But still, not worth the effort for me. I've so far managed to avoid being in the middle of one of those moments by paying attention to my surroundings.

Sounds like an interesting project though. Keep us posted.

Mike

[sbca96]

You could look at the parts on a 1994-1996 Impala SS, they use a ring on the rotor that a
sensor "sees" as it spins past. A 4th Gen F-body (Camaro/Firebird) has an inclosed system
up front, but a pressed on ring in the rear. As long as the tooth count is the same, a rear
ring could be added to the rotor and the rear hub. My disc brake adapter could be modded
to allow the use of the sensor, and the Studebaker hub could be machined to accept that
ring I mentioned. Its all very possible, but not inexpensive. ABS is great for a street car,
but most racers disable the system as it adds a level of uncertainty in how it responds. It
also has a tendency to "disable" itself when high temperatures of hard braking are seen. I
recall one night of hard two lane road carving I was doing in my 1993 Camaro Z28 that an
ABS light came on to notify me the system may or may not operate. Once cooled off the
light went off and the system worked again as advertised.

There is also the early truck ABS systems that only operate the rear wheels, that can be
used to at the very least keep the rear end from coming around.

Tom

[jbjr]

I fully agree with rockne10 about abs in cars and trucks. Having 20 + years of driving a big rig anything that will help keep you safe is good. One other point in my humble opinion most people should take their driving test every year, which would leave less people on the road

[rockne10]

ABS has been a great addition to vehicles driven by the Vox Populi as it does assist the average driver in stopping safely particularly under adverse road conditions.

Love you to death, Bob but! Based on my experience, which is not minimal and, granted, I am biased to my own opinion; ABS has never been minimally wonderful, let alone a "great addition to vehicles", other than to the engineers and manufacturers of ABS parts and systems. My favorite Rolls-Royce mechanic verifies it's maximum value is in enabling you to have the opportunity to choose what you will hit.
I grew up and learned to drive experiencing the affect and control of my own foot on the brakes. Then spent more than 6 MILLION miles behind the wheel of trucks with ABS. When you put your foot on that pedal and you have absolutely no idea what the computer is going to tell the brakes to do...THAT..is not the most comfortable feeling!

Rant over!

[R_David]

When I first moved to New England and was learning to drive in the snow ABS in my daily driver saved me from numerous certain accidents. Mostly related to me not leaving enough room between me and the car in front of me when approaching a stop. When I was 'panicking' due to the person in front of me stopping and my car sliding towards them I kept trying to push the brake pedal through the floor board (even though my brain was saying 'PUMP THE BRAKES' my feet weren't listening ), and the ABS system would take over and stop me safely.

In my opinion ABS is essential if you live in a place with snow. I don't need it on my Hawk because I would never drive my Hawk in the snow. Just my 2 cents.

[Springstreet]

[Bordeaux Daytona]

There was an article in Hot Rod magazine a while back (I thought it was only a year ago but it was a bit more, how time flies) about adding abs to older muslce cars. I found it online.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_1108_abs_for_hot_rods/

[sbca96]

You mean like this? Turner doesn't deal with modern tech, his system is based on 1st Gen Mustang rotors
and 70s era calipers. If you want MODERN disc brakes for your Studebaker .. that would be me ..







PM me, I have one set of PBR 13 inch brake mounting brackets left... read up on the link in my signature.
From the links below, depending on what year Corvette caliper you have - its a bolt on.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/wheels-tires/m5lp-0407-pbr-pin-drive-caliper/

http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/1177444-cobra-calipers-corvette.html

Tom

[JoeHall]

If I had the option of eliminating ABS in any vehicle, I would go out of my way to do so! (Stated as a truck fleet manager).
Maybe some folks brains are not better than the computers, sensors and tone rings on those ABS systems. Your experience may vary.

While disc brakes on a Stude are an unquestionable upgrade, not so with ABS. ABS is nice on modern cars, and probably safer for the wife in her Honda Odyssey. But putting ABS on a Stude would be kinda like putting a saddle on a boar hog; bragging rights and interesting conversation maybe, but that's about it.

As for DBs, the Turner kit needs an easier pedal push, and leaves one in a quandary: keeping the hydrovac keeps the easier pedal, but no safe way to plumb a Turner dual MC conversion into a Stude with a frame mounted MC, and keep the hydrovac. Giving up the hydroac in favor of the dual MC leads back to the stiffer pedal. Using a "standard brake pedal" provides a little more leverage, and is close but no cigar; no where near the easy pedal of a hydrovac equipped Stude.

No experience with your brakes Tom, but I know for a fact the old, NLA, 12", "DL style" brakes result in a pedal that is very close to a PB equipped car. Actually the feel is near identical to a 1993 Volvo 240 winter rat, I once had. Hopefully, yours are moving in that direction too.

[bezhawk]

These are just as well,lighter than the PBR calipers, and fit STOCK wheels. Even 14" if so desired.