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View Full Version : Transmission: How NOT to put in a Scotsman trans/driveshaft



allstateguy
06-01-2014, 06:53 PM
I knew from the pictures and a receipt that came with the car, that my 58 Scotsman 4dr had some "custom" engineering

I had been concentrating on the engine compartment and cosmetics for the past few weeks, but greasing the chassis yesterday and wanting to adjust the T96 shift linkage, I made a few discoveries.

I wasn't able to get a production order from the museum, as they don't have records from Hamilton. Based on what I had seen in the auction pictures, I assumed that it was a straight 3-spd, no O/D. I also made the assumption, also based on the pictures, that a pre-58 T96 had been swapped in, and a custom driveshaft with a built-in slip joint installed to compensate for the shorter transmission.

I was partly right. It is a short tailshaft transmission, and it is a T96, BUT . . . it is an O/D short tailshaft, and I'm pretty sure it is NOT from a Studebaker. It is mounted to the bellhousing by the typical 4 bolts, but with ~5/8" thick NUTS used as spacers between the faces of the trans and bellhousing. About as Mickymouse as it gets, but likely done because this transmission's input shaft was not going to work in a Studebaker without the shenanigans. Beautiful driveshaft by the way, but WHY did they use the wrong trans, so a custom driveshaft was needed??

I have a 63 Lark T96 O/D trans sitting waiting to be installed, and it does not look like a big job. However, I am a bit concerned that there will be surprises INSIDE the bellhousing. Like a custom pilot bushing, a clutch plate with different splines, etc.

So, while I can do this, I had to share this small nightmare. What other vehicles used a short tailshaft O/D T96 trans? Willys? Rambler? I know Warner didn't put any vehicle brand name on their gearcases, so I guess I'll have to pull the substitute out and do some research.

So what I thought would be simple, and the rest of the car certainly deserves to have this el-crappo engineering brought back to original, it is unexpected and kinda threw me for a loop.35324

jclary
06-01-2014, 07:14 PM
Just a suggestion, and, unless you know someone with a machine shop...could be expensive. Here goes anyway. How 'bout making a simple cardboard pattern of the openings you need to make a simple adapter plate spacer. Four bolt holes, a center hole for the transmission shaft, and the correct thickness. If everything is lined up and working otherwise...replacing those nuts with an adapter plate would give you a strong bolted connection, and you wouldn't have to mess with the drive shaft.

Of course, depending on the dimension of those spacer nuts, the spline might still have enough room to work as is...as long as you stay with a short tail shaft transmission. Just a thought.

junior
06-01-2014, 09:46 PM
The engineering may not be as mickey-mouse as you first think. If there was a collar or some sort of sleeve that was installed to center the transmission in the bell housing, or if the transmission itself fits tightly in the bell housing, and the mainshaft of the trans. fits properly into the pilot bushing the nuts may just be acting as fore/aft spacers alone. How long has the car run in this configuration? May be a case of if its not broke don't fix it...of course further investigation would never hurt. Can you provide photos? Seems kinda of weird that an old caso owner would use such a mickey-mouse method of trans install and then pay to have a custom drive shaft built...then again with the car being a Scotsman, maybe the owner was living up the car's name. Cheers, Junior.

allstateguy
06-02-2014, 09:15 AM
I don't know how long/how far this arrangement has been on the road. Judging by the cleanliness of the driveshaft, I'd say not long. The clutch works fine, but shifting is problematic. The transmission has no wiring, no solenoid, I can touch the front bearing retainer by putting my hand up in the gap between the trans and bellhousing. There is no O/D cable, and looks as if there never was one. The O/D lever is baling-wired to the NO O/D position. The speedo hole in the trans is plugged with a rubber plug, and the too-short speedo cable is electrical-taped to the passenger side frame rail.

I'll try and take some pictures this coming weekend. Thanks for the input so far.

Oh, and I really need a working O/D. From my one drive around the block, I'd estimate that it has either a 4.10 or 4.55 rear gear. No highway driving with a 185 till I fix something.

jclary
06-02-2014, 10:36 AM
....and wanting to adjust the T96 shift linkage, I made a few discoveries....


...The clutch works fine, but shifting is problematic.....

I edited your previous posts to amplify the fact that often creative solutions create additional problems.:( Apparently, for some reason, known only to the person making the modifications, he needed to connect the engine to the drive-train. Lacking good "bolt-up" components, he improvised. Those improvised spacers created other problems. Such as, the shifter linkage needing corresponding adjustments, O.D. cable length, and speedometer housing. If the car didn't have an overdrive before...then the required electrical components would naturally be absent.

I am not familiar enough with the year-to-year variations of Studebaker transmission variances from car to car, but I suppose there could be minor changes for pilot shaft diameters, bearing/bushing thicknesses, etc. Hopefully, somewhere, you could identify the correct "bolt-up" complete set up and swap it out. That way, you and any future owners could continue forward without having to keep up with the modifications and confusion it entails. :confused:

With a bit of diligent searching, patience, and luck, you might find one of these cars hiding in the high weeds somewhere that has gone undetected by the scrappers.:)

allstateguy
06-02-2014, 11:42 AM
IF the bellhousing isn't full of non-original parts, I'm close to having what I should need. I have a long tailshaft T96 O/D, which is what a 58 should have. It has the electrical components and the wiring harness. It was said to work fine in its prior home. I noticed the Scotsman has, on the accelerator bellcrank, a place to mount a kickdown switch, but no switch. That should be easy to source, and other than having to "re-modify" the driveshaft, I am pretty close to having a 58 Scotsman with O/D.

junior
06-03-2014, 08:58 AM
After your more detailed description I guess the engineering is closer to mickey-mouse than not. I'm sure you will be smiles ahead with OEM parts, will be well worth the time and $ to go that route. a buddy of mine had a 37 Plymouth sedan that was used as a tractor...had two stock 3spd trannies bubblegum welded inline with each other....now that was mickey mouse engineering at it's best. cheers, junior.