Goodbye good gas.

[E. Davis]

One last gas station in Great Falls, Montana held out on the ethanol gas but today, while gassing up the Hawk, the manager informed me he was going to be unable to provide non-alcohol gas after what he had on hand was used. Sorry state of affairs when something so unnecessary takes precedence over common sense. I guess I will have to start looking for alcohol neutralizing additives if such a thing exists.

[starliner62]

Sta-Bil makes an additive that is supposed to prevent damage from ethanol fuel. I have not heard any reviews, but I am planning on picking some up this week.

[Dick Steinkamp]

I've used 10% ethanol fuel in my daily drivers, my collector cars and my Chevy V8 Mercruiser powered boat for many years. I drive my collector cars a lot. I use my boat a lot (in the summer). I have had no ill effects from 10% ethanol...performance, mileage, fuel system parts failing, etc.

IF you have fuel system parts over 10-15 years old that are not made for ethanol fuel, the ethanol may harm them. If you don't know, I'd change the soft fuel lines, fuel pump diaphragm and accelerator pump in the carb. If you have soft fuel lines over 10 years old, they need to be changed anyway.

IF you store the car over winter, I'd put some Sta-Bil in a full tank in the fall as Jamie suggests (I'd do that no matter what fuel you use).

Theoretically, there is a minor fuel mileage penalty (3-4%) which would mean about 1/2 a MPG or so at highway cruise. I've never noticed it or worried about it.

IMHO, too many old car ills with other ACTUAL sources are blamed on 10% ethanol fuel. My experience with many different vehicles and a lot of miles is that 10% ethanol doesn't make any noticeable difference.

[R_David]

Have to agree with Dick, my 1961 Hawk likes ethanol just as much as it liked regular gas. I expected to have all sorts of problems that just never materialized.

[nels]

Dick, I would think you've had enough old cars to notice the problems although maybe your geographic location is a benefit in some way. I will have to say that I have noticed a couple things with alcohol fuels that seem to be enormous problems. Foremost is the damage to the inside of the original fuel tanks and second is the swelling of rubber fuel lines especially when bent at 90 degrees over a short distance. They work ok for a time but soften up and collapse at the bend reducing flow. I've started using fuel injection hose trying to correct the problem but man that hose isn't cheap. I haven't had carb problems yet and fuel pumps hopefully are built with alcohol friendly diaphrams.

[Dick Steinkamp]

I haven't had those problems, Nels, but keep in mind I don't keep my cars as long as you do. The longest is about 10 years and 30,000 miles. Most others are a matter of a year or two.

The weather here in the PNW is pretty mild year round and not humid. That may be a factor also.

[showbizkid]

The thing I've noticed most has been the rapidity with which the fuel evaporates from the carb bowl. More than 4 days without starting and I'm cranking for 40 seconds to fill the bowl before I fire.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Clark,
I think that may have more to do with the porosity of a carb that has been rebuilt a couple of times. Whenever I run a new (or newish) carb, I don't have that problem.

The jury seems to be out, however, on evaporative losses on ethanol vs straight gas...

[BShaw]

Back in the mid nineties I bought a new bass boat with a 175 hp Johnson fast strike motor. From the get go that thing never ran right. When it got warmed up it would never restart. A hot soak problem for sure. I took it back to the servicing dealer 3 or four times. They did all sorts of stuff to it including changing the carbs as directed by OMC. No change. Finally, OMC had me bring it to a marina down on the St. Croix river (tween MN & WI) and they sent the factory tech to go over it. Changed carbs again and other stuff to no avail! After each attempt they'd take it out on the river for a test run. No love for Bob's bass boat...hot soak and no-start persisted. Finally, they used up the 10% ethanol premium pump gas in the tank and had to fill it up with gas at the marina dock. Amazingly, the motor ran perfectly! Reason? Dock gas was ethanol free.

Fortunately, Minnesota allows non-oxy gas for classic cars, boats, lawn mowers, etc. (thanks to the Minnesota Street Rod Association) and I used that without a single problem thereafter until I sold that boat.

So, that's why I use that in my Hawk, even at $4+ a gallon. I realize and respect differing opinions on ethanol and support it in my newer cars but still have to go by my experience for other applications.

[showbizkid]

Clark,
I think that may have more to do with the porosity of a carb that has been rebuilt a couple of times.

You may be right, Dick. Unfortunately it's impossible to do an apples-to-apples comparison, as they ain't makin' brand-new WCFB's no more

[Dick Steinkamp]

Clark,
The better carb rebuilders will reseal them after soaking in the nasty stuff. Not cheap, however...

http://www.thecarbshop.com/

[jclary]

I once had a customer who bought some of the largest Binks pressure pots I ever sold. I don't recall the capacity, but they had to use fork trucks and overhead hoists to move them around. Even the lids were moved by overhead hoists due to their weight. This company was vacuum sealing small engine carburetor castings (mowers, lawn tractors, etc.)

After purchasing the tanks, my main sale to them was replacement lid gaskets and an occasional gauge. Therefore, I didn't hang out there enough to learn much about the process. I think the process is to load the casting into the tanks with the sealing liquid, draw a vacuum to eliminate any air, and then leave the castings soaking in the sealing liquid while slowly releasing the vacuum, then adding pressure... allowing the sealant to replace the air that was in the casting pores.

It seems to me that a small batch system could be made to do re-sealing for a carburetor re-builder. Like a lot of things we discuss...the idea is always easier, but the reality, usually makes these discussions nothing more than a fun mental exercise. For example, used pressure pots can be had for not too much. Then you'll need a vacuum pump, compressor, and all the plumbing, gauges, etc. to make them work. Next, is the chemical solution (something I never learned) resistant to gasoline required for sealing. Besides learning the skills to make all this work...you'd also need a complete set of carburetor tools (many specific to a particular carburetor), and probably some kind of test equipment.

I have an old vintage Carter Carburetor Tool kit. I bought it off of Ebay. Much of the goofy little instruments in that box is a mystery to me. My last carburetor adventure was installing new jets in a couple of Honda V-twin carbs. Even with instructions...the kit itself required parts to be altered/modified for my particular model. Before I was done, I had employed medical hemostats, dental pics, micro needle nose pliers, and a dremel tool. None of those items were mentioned in the kit instructions or the service manual.

Most of us "back-yard tinkerers" don't completely tear down a carburetor when installing a kit. To re-seal one would almost certainly require that. All those jet seats, jets, springs, ball checks, floats, and those weird little aluminum plugs that are hammered into various places (hiding the mystery parts), would have to come out, only to be reinstalled later. It would be nice to know of a small batch carburetor re-sealer business. I'd just about bet, due to today's tons of chemical handling regulations, that if you did a Google search for casting vacuum sealers...most would be overseas.

Well...if any of you want to launch a carburetor re-seal business...I think I have an old 5 gallon pressure pot buried in the man cave somewhere. Good luck.

[southbend]

A few gas stations around here sell 100% gas for the boaters. There are a couple of lakes in the area. Unfortunately, it's only premium 93 octane, so you end up paying for it. I guess Great Fall, MT isn't lake country. I've heard stories on both sides of the ethanol debate. Some claim no problems running ethanol. Others say just the opposite. I am thoroughly confused by it all. But I go 100% gas when I can to err on the side of safety.

[LarkTruck]

You may not think there are problems with 10% ethanol, but wait till all we can get is 15%! Stations around here are already selling it, and it runs like CRAP in my fuel injected Mail Jeeps! In case you haven't noticed, "the contains 10% ethanol" stickers are being removed from pumps. Just one more thing we are having shoved up our ..... whether we like it or not!

JS

[Kurt]

I lost my last pure gas station here about a month ago. I have used a lot of ethanol in old cars, old tractors, lawnmowers, weed eaters, and chain saws. If I use these things often and keep the gas fresh, I don't have any problems. I use a mixture of sea foam and stabile for ethanol in all of my fuel for my small engines. It seems to help as these do sit a lot. I think our biggest problem in my area is the humidity. Ethanol draws water and water causes corrosion.