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63larkcustom
09-25-2006, 12:47 AM
Hello Everyone, I'm new to the forum and have a few questions about the 170ohv. I just rescued a 63 Lark from the crusher. The good part is the body is straight and rust free, all glass and chrome is there and in good condition. The bad news is the engine is stuck and will not turn. I'm not too familiar with this engine and am trying to decide the best course of attack. I have done some research and have seen that this engine has a problem with the heads cracking. I've considered swapping out the engine with a 194 engine or even a flathead 6. I am not sure of the complications that would arise. the body number is 63s y4 382. All of the fluids are in the engine/radiator and look good. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My goal is to have the car mechanically capable of making the trip from palm springs to south bend in June 07.

Bob Sporner

63larkcustom
09-25-2006, 01:37 AM
[http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg/img]
not sure if this will work.. trying to post a pic of the car

Bob Sporner [img/http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg]

sbca96
09-25-2006, 02:02 AM
Bob, I would suggest taking out all the spark plugs, and pouring some
Marvel Mystery oil into each cylinder. Then let it sit for a week.
The oil will seep down past the rings, and unstick the rings. After
you do that, leave the plugs out, and try cranking the engine. If it
still wont budge, try a socket on the front bolt on the crank. Once
you got it unstuck, then you will want to add an upper engine lube. I
like "Rislone" myself. Good luck. Keep us posted on this post.

http://www.rislone.com/

"Here’s why you can depend on Rislone engine Treatment: When added to the crankcase oil, Rislone Engine Treatment will normally raise and even compression in the cylinders by freeing sticking valves, lifters and rings so that they seal better, thus improving smoothness and power. It reduces friction and wear, especially at start-up time, and maintains normal oil viscosity at engine operating temperatures."

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

63larkcustom
09-25-2006, 02:13 AM
Thanks Tom, do i need to remove the oil pan after running the treatment to clean out the gunk?

Bob Sporner
[img=left]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006-1.jpg

sbca96
09-25-2006, 02:34 AM
No, its not that strong a cleaner, just change the oil when it looks
like its dirty, like you normally would. You might want to start by
changing the oil, and such AFTER you get the engine unstuck. I would
not change it before, since if something is mechanically wrong you
will waste 5 quarts of oil, and these days thats not cheap!

If you click on the "reply with quote" option on my post above that I
included your picture, you can see the correct syntax to make it work.

Tom

63larkcustom
09-25-2006, 02:39 AM
Thanks Tom.. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that its nothing too major.. but whatever the outcome.. i'm committed to getting the ole girl back on the road where she belongs.

Bob Sporner
[img=left]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006-1.jpg

63larkcustom
09-25-2006, 02:43 AM
thanks for the syntax on the picture.. worked fine.

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

John Kirchhoff
09-25-2006, 11:30 PM
I don't want to be the party pooper here, but depending upon how long the car sat and how humid the climate, it could very well take a heck of a lot more than dribbling a little lube down the plug hole. My '51 Land Cruiser had been driven into a hay barn where it sat for 13 years. After I got it, I tried all the different remedies but after I tore the engine apart I found out why my endeavors were fruitless. As we all know, steel and aluminum only tolerate each other under the best of circumstances. Let an aluminum piston with steel rings set for years with moisture making its way into the cylinders through open valves (either exhaust or intake) and that funky white corrosion forms in the open space in the ring land. When it does so, it swells up and the piston is locked in place. On my V8, two cylinders had open intake valves and stuck pistons. I must have sweated 10 gallons and split a winter's worth of firewood using oak blocks between the top of the piston and my sledge hammer. Even if I hadn't bashed in the tops of the pistons, they were junk. It's impossible to get the rings out of the corroded land. Both intake valves were deeply pitted and also junk but the open exhaust were fine. Must be some stainless steel in them. Hopefully your engine isn't in the same shape. On the bright side, being a 6 cylinder there's a good chance only one piston is stuck. On the down side, I've had to sledge hammer corroded pistons out of tractors, motorcycles and lawnmowers too. I wonder if the sledge hammer trick would work on one of those little gas powered model airplanes?

63larkcustom
09-26-2006, 01:06 AM
Thanks for the input. The car spent its life in southern california.. so luckily not too many humidity type issues have shown their head so far.. but.. i havent gotten it unstuck yet either.. we'll see what happens.

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

sbca96
09-26-2006, 05:15 AM
I was kinda taking in consideration that it was in SoCal, but those
points are worth making. Its very possible that the engine is a total
loss, but you gotta start somewhere. I just picked up that R1 engine
and was told it turns over. I havent tried it yet myself though. If
its the one I think it is, its been out of the car, non-running for
about 15 to 20 years in Santa Barbara. It had plastic over it, but
wasnt sealed. It might be toast, or it might turn like I was told. I
will try to turn it, if that doesnt work, the oil in the cylinders, &
THEN I will start using the sledge hammer!:D;)

Just kidding, but I did get a 63 engine from a salvage yard many years
ago, and I did have to use a chisel and a hammer to break the pistons
into little pieces. The engine also filled up with water. Nice part
was it was all still usable- except the pistons. No amount of JB weld
was going to fix them.[:p]

I just bought my first sledge hammer, its a small one, but it packs a
big whollop. Made knocking the hubs loose on the Avanti go smoothly.
That reminds me, I need to return the puller[:0][B)]!!!

Tom

63larkcustom
09-26-2006, 10:30 AM
Well, I filled they cylinders with the MMO and also a bit of atf, suggested by a mechanic friend. Better to try the less expensive alternative first before it starts costing.

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

sbca96
09-26-2006, 01:11 PM
Just make sure you dont have the plugs IN the engine when you try and
turn it over or you could end up with a hydro-lock from the oil in the
cylinders. You probably know this, but I wanted to restate in case!;)

Tom

63larkcustom
09-26-2006, 08:36 PM
good point.. though i have the plastic spread and am hoping it turns and makes quite a mess..else..time for the rebuilder...

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

rockne10
09-26-2006, 08:58 PM
A less stressful and more leveraged release of siezed rings would be to apply a prybar to the ring gear. I did this to a Lark VI that had sat in a carport for 12 years and ran it for many years after. I did prybar it through several complete revolutions, relubricating often with MMO.

Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
33 Rockne 10
51 Commander Starlight
53 Commander Starlight
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/51x2.jpg
previously: 63 Cruiser, 62 Regal VI, 60 VI convertible, 50 LandCruiser

sbca96
09-26-2006, 11:08 PM
Good idea, yes the pry bar on the ring gear CAN give more leverage
then the front bolt. Years ago we got my dads 64 GT Hawk engine free
doing that. Actually, doing BOTH, ring gear AND front bolt! It got
quite a few miles on it after that. It had been rebuilt, & sat out.

Tom

63larkcustom
09-26-2006, 11:17 PM
not sure if good news yet or not..but got it to turn very slightly tonight.. enough to move some of the mmo out of a plug hole.. will continue each day.. see how far it can get..

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

sbca96
09-26-2006, 11:36 PM
"If it bleeds, we can kill it." - Predator.

http://aazealh.nerim.net/Divers/If_it_bleeds....wav

Not sure if thats a good quote since you want it to turn, but it did
pop into my head, when I thought of that red fluid oozing out.;)

Sounds like the start of success to me!

Tom

63larkcustom
09-27-2006, 12:33 AM
well if nothing else its a great stress releaver crankin on the bar...lol

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

63larkcustom
09-27-2006, 06:48 PM
Day off today, so of course.. spent a good portion of it working on the engine. I pulled the head and took it over to a machine shop to have the top half refreshed. The good news is they cleaned the head and found NO cracks, but in tearing it down noted two bent valves. I was fully expecting cracks in the head. The are also no signs of it having been rewelded. I have a feeling getting the bottom half freed up is gonna get ugly.

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

63larkcustom
10-02-2006, 01:58 AM
well.. looks like a worst case scenario has developed... the block is cracked. How hard/costly would it be to convert the car over to the mckinnon setup (I know..its a stude and needs a stude engine). Being a basic 6cyl lark, the value is rather low. I'm trying to find the most cost effective way to get it up and going. Does anyone have any suggestions? Your help is greatly appreciated.


Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

sbca96
10-02-2006, 03:51 AM
The Chevy mounts are available from Studebaker International, page 97
of the engine section "Part 6". They list them for $175 a pair. You
will have to order a 65-66 Lark exhaust also. For the driveshaft you
might be able to find one that will fit, from another car. Just keep
in mind that you will want to upgrade the front springs eventually,
but if you just buy items for a 65-66 Lark, you should be fine. Sorry
to hear about the engine, but since you arent a "purist", you have a
few nice options available for that Lark. I would consider an LT1/T56
combo for it myself. An easy 300hp, and 25+ mpg. The alumnium parts
drop the weight down even further then an all iron GM engine, the OD
makes freeway driving quite nice, of course thats a manual trans.

If you get the engine from a "P" code 94+ Caprice, you can get the
engine and 4L60E auto trans for under 1000 bucks.

Tom

John Kirchhoff
10-02-2006, 09:19 AM
You didn't say where it was cracked. If it's the cylinder, they can be bored oversize and a dry sleeve pressed in. If it's between cylinders, there's ag and construction shops that can heat, weld and repair the block (and heads) although you could probably get a used one cheaper. If it's the side of the block like the coolant having frozen, just have it welded, preferably with nickle rod. Just make sure the top of the block isn't distorted (been there) and you may need to have the block planed. Don't get too depressed, I've seen tractor blocks where a thrown rod punched out a 6 inch square hole and after it was repaired, you never would have known except for a few stray grinder marks. Ag and construction folks don't have the luxury of just throwing a block or head away and then easily finding replacements. Yes, I know Stude parts are sometimes hard to find, but believe me, it isn't nothing compared to finding such parts for tractors of the same era. And they'll cost many, many times more.

63larkcustom
10-02-2006, 10:12 AM
I totally understand about the welding,etc.. my father and I restored a 1921 Fordson tractor in the late 70's. That was a pain in the butt to get parts. I'd like to try and keep my studie a studie or as close to it as possible. I can stomach putting a 194 in the car as even though it didnt come from South Bend like that, Studebaker did produce a later vehicle with that setup. I'm originally from South Bend and most of my family worked for Studebaker right up through the end. My father was an electrician at the plant, grandfather and one uncle worked in dept 308, the other uncle was a wood pattern maker. I'd like to think a few parts on the car came through their hands. So, while not a purist, I would like to put the little car back together as close to what it was as possible economically.

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

Kurt
10-02-2006, 09:23 PM
If you use the Chevy 6 you will need the radiator support for a 65-66. The Chevy engine is longer than the Stude, so the radiator has to be moved forward. Why not swap to a 283. Still a bolt in without the hassle of moving the radiator.

sbca96
10-03-2006, 02:24 AM
There is a saying I have read, "dont just replace, UPGRADE!":D

Tom

63larkcustom
10-03-2006, 04:56 PM
can the frame on my car support the larger engine? I've read several posts on the subject. i'm going to have to do a bit of research before i decide what i want to do with it. Thanks for the input and am open to suggestions.


Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

John Kirchhoff
10-03-2006, 05:07 PM
The frames on the 6 cylinder cars were made of a little thinner metal than the V8's and technically weren't as strong. Frankly I wouldn't worry very much about that. However, you might want to check the area of the frame where the front spring supports attach to the frame. Sometimes the frames would crack in that area regardless of the size engine. If so, it's time to do a little bit of welding. Unless your California car spend it's life near the ocean, I doubt there's penetrating rust problems on the frame. If there's anything good to be said about a small block Chevy, they are considerably lighter in weight than a Stude V8.

sbca96
10-03-2006, 05:18 PM
You can add some "T" bar to the bottom of the front frame from the
spring holes down to the next crossmember. I think it was an old
publication I saw them recommend this for the "lighter" frames. The
53 C/K were prone to cracking there. I think in 54 the added the
larger crossmember under the door A-pillar. Chances are the frame
will be fine, unless you take my earlier advice on the LT1/4L60E. Or
if you REALLY want to worry about that frame, drop in a 500 hp LS7.:D
Its all aluminum, you might have to cut the 6 cylinder springs to get
the front end back down.;)

Tom

StudeDave57
10-03-2006, 07:18 PM
Bob~
If you're interested in NOT having to re-engineer your car (IE installing a V8 and all the changes that go along with it...:() I have an OHV Six here in San Diego that should be rebuildable. I have not seen it in a few years as it's buried in the corner of my storage building. If you're interested I'll un-bury it and have a look-see. It's a full-flow from a '63, ran when pulled, been in storage since~ I'm not sure of too much else about it at this time, but can find out more for you if need-be...
I hope that this my help you in your pursuit of hapiness.


StudeDave [8D]
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
'57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

63larkcustom
10-03-2006, 08:10 PM
Hi Dave, yes, please check I am definitely interested. The engine thats in the car is a full flow unit as well. I would prefer not to change for the original setup.

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

StudeDave57
10-03-2006, 08:43 PM
Bob~

I will take a look, and get back to you (offline) soon! Just trying to help, and this seems like it'd be the easiest solution for you...



StudeDave [8D]
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
'57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

StudeRich
10-04-2006, 01:38 AM
John I do not think Bob need worry about his frame, even if he were to install a V-8. A look in the shop manual reveals that only 2dr. sedans had the lightweight 13 ga. frame and '61 2dr's. had 14ga. !!!!!!!!
The engine has nothing to do with it, it's the body type. All '62 & on Non-export Hardtops and 4dr's have the 11 ga. frame. Of course I am aware that cars that have been in a front end colision, have high HP engines or have 200,000+ miles etc. can tear the frame at the bottom of the coil spring pocket at the rivet that attaches the front crossmember, but I have found it is way worse with 2dr's,:( the worst being the '65-'66 Daytona Sport Sedans and Commander 2dr's with 283 engine, less torque and HP than a 289/305 FT LBS. ...go figure![:0]


quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff

The frames on the 6 cylinder cars were made of a little thinner metal than the V8's and technically weren't as strong.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

63larkcustom
10-04-2006, 11:45 AM
Thanks for the info on the v8. I'm sticking with a six and most likely a stude 6 as the cost to upgrade the car to handle the v8, ie springs, brakes etc, would be rather prohibitive.

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

sbca96
10-04-2006, 12:18 PM
Considering that a GM V8 is probably the same weight as a Stude 6, you
dont HAVE to update the springs and brakes unless you want too. I do
always suggest that people DO upgrade their brakes regardless. Back
when ALL cars had 4 wheel drum brakes and non-syncro first gears, it
wasnt a big deal. Today, most of your 6000 pound SUVs can stop MUCH
faster then your little Lark can with drums. If they are in front of
you, that means you rearend them - simply put.

If you are interested in a GM V8, I forgot to mention that I have a
running '78 305 V8 with a TH350 trans that I would sell to you CHEAP.
The engine runs good, but needs valve seals (simple job on the car) &
the trans needs a rebuild (but works - mostly;)). Reason its being
sold/removed is we are installing a '94 LT1 350 with 4L60E trans into
the car as part of a economy 'G-machine' project.

I am in Santa Barbara County, California.

Tom

63larkcustom
10-04-2006, 01:36 PM
thanks for the information on the v8 Tom. I'm sure its much faster and easier to get parts for. I kinda like the sound the six makes. Most of my driving is done locally in palm springs, though I'm working very dilligently to have the car in shape for a South Bend trip in June as you can see in the picture.. its got a long way to go.

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

sbca96
10-04-2006, 03:02 PM
Not sure if a 78 305 V8 would be much faster then the stock 6, its a
pretty wimpy V8, rated at 125 hp. There isnt an "re-engineering", as
Studebaker Canada did that for you. Everything is available to make
the swap, if you chose to go that route. The 6 should be easier to
do since there is no modification. I suggest you take inventory on
the car, and figure out WHAT all needs to be replaced. What condition
is the trans behind the engine thats in it now? Will it need to be
rebuilt? How are the brakes? Do you need all new drums/shoes/cyls on
each corner? How is the exhaust? Rusted out? Holes? In good shape?
Its worthwhile factoring all that in. Let say that the trans is bad,
and the exhaust is bad. You need to have those done also. If thats
the case, then its the same cost to order a 65-66 exhaust as it is to
order a 63 exhaust. If the 6 cyl engine thats being offered needs to
be rebuilt, it will cost more money then a GM V8. I used to think it
was pretty close, but others on SDC and Racing Studes have pointed out
that EVERYTHING has shot up in cost, where as GM rebuild kits are not
much more then they were. I am not trying to sway you either way, I
am keeping my Avanti Studebaker powered, even though its going to cost
me a LOT more to complete what I want. Would be cheaper for me to put
an LS2/T56 6 speed into the car, then to keep the Stude, rebuild it,
and have the T56 adapter made. The LS2 will make 450 hp, compared to
the R1's ~300 hp (with ported heads), and be about 200 pounds lighter.
Something that isnt a bad thing in a front heavy Avanti - 60/40 dis.

Tom

StudeDave57
10-04-2006, 04:34 PM
Bob~
The motor is indeed still there, hiding in that corner. It's got a carb, both manifolds and such. There is no bellhousing, so you'll have to use the one off your old motor. I'll email you off line for more details.

That's all I've got to say, as anything else (about anything else) will get me into trouble... ;) [:0]


StudeDave [8D]
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
'57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

sbca96
10-04-2006, 04:41 PM
The bellhousings on Studebakers are dialed in at the factory, without
the factory matching bellhousing you can not just "use" your old one
without using a dial indicator and dialing it in correctly. This will
require new dowel pins being added to keep the proper fit.

GM did this differently, and their transmissions (with intregal bell-
housings) can be swapped between engines without problems.

Tom

StudeDave57
10-04-2006, 07:07 PM
And to think that somehow or another that part about the bellhousing got deleted out of my last post~ imagine that~ opps!!! Been there done that- it's tons of fun!!!
Trust me, it would've come up when he comes to get this thing, Either that or when he reads his shop manual... ;)
I'm going to shut up now.

StudeDave [8D]
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
'57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

bams50
10-04-2006, 07:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by 63larkcustom

I kinda like the sound the six makes.

You know, I've never heard anyone else say that- besides me! I had an ugly old 64 that had a rebuilt engine and S/S exhaust; I just loved the way that thing purred! I just sold it to a local guy who plans to restore the car- WITH the six!

I know he's gonna con me into helping with it some... I'll tell him I will, provided he join the SDC ;)

I say, good for you for staying with the six!! [8D]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

63larkcustom
10-05-2006, 02:23 AM
Well after some research and a lot of guilt from my two uncles... I've decided to keep my studebaker a 100 percent South Bend Studebaker. As one of the uncles put it.. "if you wanted a chevy, you should have bought one. You bought a Studebaker and you need to keep it as such." Those words kinda stung, but he is exactly right. Even though its just a plain standard Lark, it would be wrong to make it anything but what it was meant to be. So, guess I just gotta slow down a bit and do it right.

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

63larkcustom
10-05-2006, 02:38 AM
I've had the car for a little over a week and its looking kinda different..attached is the pics of where the progress is at.. Loooong way to go.
http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

sbca96
10-05-2006, 12:11 PM
Making the decision is the first step, there was no wrong choice. Good
luck with your project!

Tom

63larkcustom
10-07-2006, 09:19 AM
Well, over the last few days, got a bit of an education. The car is not a Custom, but rather a Regal. As much as I want to put the car back together, I've been warned by several people offline that this is "the least desireable Studie" as its a 6cyl automatic regal. The car pretty much needs everything. The only thing going for it is the rust free body. In the pics posted, the gray is primer that the previous owner sprayed over paint chips. As its pretty obvious I have limited experience with the brand, I'd like to get some opinions on the route to take. Guess I'm a bit overwhelmed with the real numbers of what must be done to make "the readheaded stepchild of the studebaker family" a nice car again. I like the car, but not sure its worth the 8k that will need to be spent to make it nice. I read a thread that said that "the old larks are like wayward puppies and kittens, they know who to follow home." I guess i gotta admit thats true..

Bob Sporner
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/PictureorVideo006.jpg

sbca96
10-07-2006, 06:36 PM
Not sure what kind of advice you are getting off the forum, but there
are two ways to go about a project like this :

1. Fixing it up to keep.
2. Fixing it up to sell.

Pretty much NO Studebaker is going to turn a profit if you buy in that
condition to fix up & sell. None are desirable enough in the publics
eye to demand enough cash to get your return. The problem is just as
true as the more desirable of the Studebakers such as the Avantis, GT
Hawks, and C/Ks. They usually cost MORE to fix up, for things like a
fender or factory disc brakes.

This leaves you with a choice, are you fixing it up to enjoy, or are
you fixing it up in hopes to make money when its finished? It sounded
to me like you wanted a car to enjoy, and keep. With a 6 cyl Lark, it
really isnt worth paying the cash required to keep the Stude engine.
You will spend a decent sum of money to rebuild it. Going with the
early mentioned GM engine simplifies the process. I assume the car is
a non-power steering car? Not sure what "everything" is that it needs
since I havent seen it in person, but if the body and frame are sound,
its a great base to build on. If you were to do a small block Chevy,
with a TH700R4 trans, you will see some returns on MPG savings just in
the trip to South Bend. Someone will take the old Stude motor/trans
off your hands for chump change, and you can order the GM mounts from
S.I. that I listed earlier, OR you can see if used ones are available
from someone near you. As I mentioned, the exhaust is available, and
it quite reasonable compared to similar systems for brand X cars. The
brakes can be had from Steeltech for roughly 700 dollars (send me your
old hubs please:D;)). It is a true "bolt on" setup, that you can
do with regular hand tools. The rear brakes are available from your
local part house from what I read on this forum. The model 27 axle on
your Lark will work fine with a mild GM engine, and a light foot. As
long as you dont plan on drag racing, just have the axles checked for
cracks and be on your way. Most other parts are available from SDC
vendors, including interior pieces, or you can source interior parts
from your local salvage yard. I got both front & rear leather seats
from a 97 Camaro for 200 bucks (www.recycler.com). Simple brackets
can be made from different materials. This can also increase driving
pleasure, and reduce back pain on that trip to South Bend.

If you look at it as a soon to be nice driver, then the money you put
into it will pay YOU back in years to come, from having something that
is your OWN, different then other cars on the road, & fitting to your
personality. Its not going to be cheap, but if you do research, & do
most your own work, you'll be surprised how far little money can go!

Tom

Scott
10-07-2006, 06:58 PM
Ah, geez 63larkcustom. Who cares if it's the "least desireable" Studebaker. That's only true in the eyes of certain (and many) snobs. A good car is a good car. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. If it makes you feel good and the car works the way it should, then close your ears to the nay-sayers and follow your heart.

studeclunker
10-08-2006, 05:48 AM
Keep looking around. You might find a suitable six in the local junk yard or another member might be able to locate one for you. Just have some patience.

You're right in wanting to keep things as they originally were. The Chevy engine is not really superior to the Stude. The parts are just more available. After all both Chevy and Ford were each able to out produce Studebaker ten to one.

Besides, the car was originally designed for the Stude motor. Adding a foreign component is asking for trouble. Good luck. You've got a nice car. Hope it goes well for you.

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

StudeDave57
10-08-2006, 06:31 PM
"The model 27 axle on your Lark will work fine with a mild GM engine, and a light foot. As long as you dont plan on drag racing, just have the axles checked for cracks and be on your way. "

Yeah, right~ I've seen the results of 259 vs. Dana Model 27...
Oh, wait- you said "light foot"- better make that more like "REALLY LIGHT FOOT", or a really mild SBC

StudeDave [8D]
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
'57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

sbca96
10-08-2006, 06:50 PM
GM put weaker axles in some of their high performance cars then a 27.
One of the biggest complaints about the 4th Gen Camaro is the axle.
It is the same rearend that GM used in the Monza. Yet, I have over
230,000 miles on my 1993 Camaro Z28 with a HEAVY foot. The reason it
would break is if the car gets good traction with high hp. If its an
"open diff" which most likely it is, the right rear tire will just
spin harmlessly when too much gas is applied. Its not something that
would HAVE to be replaced right away, but could be done later to save
some money up front.

Back to the Camaro, its an operating posi rearend, & 275/40R17 tires,
so its probably been getting better traction then his Lark will get
with one 205/75R15 tire grabbing the road.;)

Tom

63larkcustom
10-08-2006, 10:26 PM
Thanks for the cost cutting information on the chevy. I will not install anthing under the hood of my car that is not circa early 60's south bend studebaker. If I change to the gm, then i have a chevybaker... not what I'm after. Its not a matter of not having the money to spend on the car..but rather spending where it makes sense. Frankly, I if I had to, I would rather sell my studey for parts in the hopes of keeping someone elses alive.

Bob Sporner

sbca96
10-09-2006, 03:53 AM
Thats unfortunate, to rather part out the car then use a Chevy engine
to put it back on the road? We sold a low miles 64 Stude straight 6
for 150 bucks years ago. Had a 3 spd w/OD attached. Ran great.

I have a 1960 Hawk V8 with low miles, but no bellhousing. It had the
TH700R4 bolted to it and the Steeltech kit. Its a built engine tho
and would tear that little Lark apart.

I hope you change your mind on parting it out, a rust free Lark really
should be saved, whats good about it is under the skin. Studebaker
Canada used Chevy engines in 65-66, so its not like its evil. Maybe
you might get lucky and find a semi-local running Stude 6.

Tom

John Kirchhoff
10-09-2006, 09:36 AM
You know Bob, asking questions is good but listening to all the answers isn't always good. You've been given a lot of good advice, but sometimes you need to stop listening to others (myself included) and start listening to yourself. It sounds like your car has a sound body and to me that's worth more than any high horsepower engine. If you want a Stude 6...go for it. Having the most horsepower on the block impresses no one except maybe the 13 year old kid that rides his bicycle past your house everyday. And yourself. If it's hp that you live and breath for, go ahead and mortgage the house in your quest. You don't need a concours quality paint job. All it takes is one pokeberry eating bluejay to poop on the car and you have a permanent purple spot for all enternity. You want paint? Buy some sandpaper, a Chinese made spray gun and a gallon of tractor enamel at the local farm store. It's good stuff, believe me. Fix the stock brakes and they'll stop you. Not as well as new discs, but so what? You could have super disc brakes but be hit by an old man in a restored '57 Chevy with orginal brakes. You can't out guess everything. If the seats are shot, hit a salvage yard for something that will work. In short, please yourself with what YOU want and don't let anyone else's ideas or opinions sway you. If you want a driver, it's won't stay pristeen no matter how careful you are, so don't strive for perfection the first time. Knowing from the get go that the car isn't going to be perfect reduces the headaches. Consider this; forget what you've been told by myself and others, go out and look at your Stude, decide how and what you want it to be and go from there. And if someone comes along and offers "advice" without you asking, politely tell them to go work on their own car because you're busy working on yours!

63larkcustom
10-09-2006, 10:10 AM
Thanks guys! The car is not going to be parted out!! I repeat NOT parted out. What I was saying is in my opinion, I would rather part it out than put a chevy under the hood. If others choose to do that to their car, that is their perrogative. For me, my little putt putt studie 6 cylinder and a Maaco paint job with some nice leather seats from something a bit newer will do the trick. I'm not gonna skimp on the mechanicals nor will i be destroying the original interior parts. For right now, it will be put back on the road with Studebaker running gear and brakes. I've already spent a lot on the head, it would be a shame not to finish what i've started. SO, respectfully, if you have a comment or suggestion on how to do this project best with the studebaker parts, whether new or used, please comment.

thanks,
.

Bob Sporner

Scott
10-09-2006, 11:45 AM
Will you be sticking with the overhead valve six, or put in an earlier flathead? If I remember right, the 185 cu. in. flathead had a little more power than the later six. I could be wrong. Nothing wrong with the later one either. I'm just curious.

63larkcustom
10-09-2006, 08:02 PM
Right now I'm sticking with the ohv6. My machine shop is trying a few things with the original block. If that does not work. I know where I can get a decent core to work with. So, for right now, my focus is on getting the engine done.. see if the tranny has issues..then go from there.. the biggest expense is gonna be the engine.. hands down.. but well worth it upon hearing the little engine putter back to life.

Bob Sporner

Scott
10-09-2006, 08:52 PM
If you just want to get it on the road, you might be able to find a good running Studebaker ohv6 and put it in cheaper than rebulding yours now. Then you could enjoy your car and take your time getting the original engine rebuilt. You'd probably have to dial indicate the alignment of the bellhousing, but that shouldn't be a big deal. A decent six cylinder engine should be relatively easy to find.

63larkcustom
10-10-2006, 12:16 AM
HI Scott, I'd love to just put it on the road..but it needs the suspension/brake system/dashboard/wiring harness etc gone through.. I've disassembled pretty much everything on the car.. So, I might as well take my time and do it a step at a time. My machine shop is pretty good and a quick turn. I have some parts on order from SASCO so, not its a matter of waiting on them to arrive. The car trully is just a shell.. albeit a very good one.

Bob Sporner

63larkcustom
10-20-2006, 01:45 AM
Well, I thought this was just gonna be a driver project.. looks like I've taken more of a plunge than anticipated... Attached are photos of where the car is now. I guess its safe to say, she'll hopefully be very nice in a few months from now. http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m190/63larkcustom/

studeclunker
10-20-2006, 02:46 AM
Oh, it's that old Lark! Was the interior of yours Rose Mist? I have a wagon in that colour. Exterior was white. Kind of like yours.:D:D:D(LOL)
I have a four-door '62 with a stuck six as well. I'm currently taking apart the running six out of one of my Champs to reconfigure into an automatic setup for the sedan. Hopefully I'll have it back on the road in a few weeks.:D
Good luck with yours! Looks like you've got a really good start.

Oh! Oh! Brain storm here. If you want some comfortable seats, try those from an old Merc. Cougar. Something I'm seriously considering for my sedan. I had an 82 that had the best seats of any car I've ever owned. The rest of the car was junk. But what can you expect for a Ford product?



Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

JDP
10-20-2006, 10:03 AM
I have to admit, you guys make me feel guilty for the 100 or so cars like that, that have died at my hand to become organ donors. If it was not for the guys saving the " bread and butter" Studebakers, they'd mostly be gone by now.
On the flip side, someone will likly provide parts from cars they've parted out to bring this one back.:)

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
Arnold Md.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Lark 2 dr.
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark convert
60 Hawk
59 3E Truck
56 truck
55 Starlight
53 Starlight
52 Starliner
51 Commander

63larkcustom
10-20-2006, 10:37 AM
Yeah.. its THAT Lark!!! lol.. and she'll be back in her old rosemist glory(yuck). I honestly didn't intend to tear into it as far as I've gone and was seriously contemplating parting it out over the past few weeks. What can I say, its under my skin, its gonna cost a lot more than its worth and i really don't care. The car was originally rosemist with the rosemist interior.

63larkcustom
10-20-2006, 10:45 AM
Do you have pictures of the wagon?

studeclunker
10-20-2006, 11:48 AM
Yeah! It's the Daytona twin! The Twin was originally Ermine white with a Rose Mist interior. I rather like the interior. You can see it here:
http://studebakerdriversclub.com/sdc_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6462

Enjoy!

JDP, it seems that for every Stude that's restored, there's two donors (usually rust buckets) who give up their sundry parts. Sad, but true.

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

63larkcustom
10-20-2006, 12:03 PM
Nice colors on the interior. Mine was a regal model and had the cloth. I've thought about putting the daytona interior in it. I like the way it looks. I haven't named this one yet.. I called the 62 Cruiser "aunt bea". A buddy of mine in college coined the name when he saw the car the first time and it kinda stuck.

StudeRich
10-20-2006, 01:03 PM
Funny you should say that, :Dbecause "in real life" aunt Bea actually DID drive a Lark, '62 if I remember right. We serviced it at Frost & French Studebaker in Los Angeles in the 1970's. [:0]


quote:Originally posted by 63larkcustom

I haven't named this one yet.. I called the 62 Cruiser "aunt bea". A buddy of mine in college coined the name when he saw the car the first time and it kinda stuck.


StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

sbca96
10-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Wow! I havent heard that name in YEARS! "Frost and French".

Tom

studeclunker
10-20-2006, 08:49 PM
My Mum called her car Bess. She called my Grandmum's car 'that lousy Studeclunker'.
I liked Grandmum's car better.

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

63larkcustom
10-31-2006, 12:30 AM
Great News!! got a call from the machine shop that has the block in its custody... The block is savable without any real major work. Though they did note that the crankshaft had "barnacles" hanging off of it..lol.. Tomorrow am supposed to be getting the "shopping list" to go out and get. So far am figuring a new crank, set of pistons, camshaft, all associated bearings and an oil pump rebuild kit... Am I missing anything that should be done at the same time? The top half of the engine is complete with new valves, springs, valve guides, hardened exhaust seats, freeze plugs, etc... So.. hopefully the little bugger will be coughing its way back soon.

63larkcustom
10-31-2006, 12:32 AM
oh yeah.. the car now has a name... Lucy.. between her flying off the back of the tow truck, etc.. the name just seems fitting

studeclunker
10-31-2006, 05:09 AM
Well... If you're gonna call her Lucy, better stay away from big long trailers!:D:D:D(LOL)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/bugsport/HappyHalloween-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

65cruiser
10-31-2006, 11:17 AM
Lucy...as in Lucy fer[}:)]?


quote:Originally posted by 63larkcustom

oh yeah.. the car now has a name... Lucy.. between her flying off the back of the tow truck, etc.. the name just seems fitting


________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

63larkcustom
10-31-2006, 11:34 AM
nah.. Lucy as in Lucille Ball... there have been several rather humorous things that have happened with the car.. it kinda fits

bams50
11-01-2006, 05:33 AM
quote:Originally posted by studeclunker

Well... If you're gonna call her Lucy, better stay away from big long trailers!:D:D:D(LOL)
Ron Smith


I know what you're referring to, Ron... I love that movie :D

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

StudeRich
11-01-2006, 10:24 PM
Yes you are Bob; the Valve Lifters must be replaced with a new or re-ground cam. And the Cam Gear needs to be replaced, also the oil pressure relief valve needs servicing or replacement. Please remind the mechanic that 6 cyl. oil pump shafts (distributor drive) need to be clocked (timed) on installation. They cannot be AFTER assembly to the camshaft and you cannot time the ignition afterwords like a V-8. :( You must tear the whole engine back apart to time the dist. driveshaft, don't ask me how I know![xx(]


quote:Originally posted by 63larkcustom
Am I missing anything that should be done at the same time?

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

kamzack
11-04-2006, 04:27 PM
Hey 63LC,
I just took the time today to read all the posts referring to your 63 Regal. I applaude your convictions to stay with original power source.
One of the big expenses of bringing a Studebaker back to life,is the expense of fixing factory rust,and I'm sure a portion of the forumites have been involved in making those repairs. It looks and sounds as though you have a big savings in your restoration, not having to spend rather hefty sums to prep body for paint. Sound bodies like your Regal are not plentiful. I have a 63 V8 Regal that's been in my family since new and I'm just now beginning to show a liitle bubling of rust here and there, it too is Ermine white.
The front end is much easier to rebuild with sheet metal off and engine out and as ya know everthing ya need is available. As you may know if everthing is in good shape and done correctly, there's no need for power steering.
All this to say, when you're done you'll have a sound, dependable car that you've not spent 30 to 50k to get on the road and you won't meet yourself going down the road. I hope this is of some encouragement to ya cause you've encouraged me by keeping the original engine, transmission and so on.
If you've not noticed there's a roll of the correct fabric for 63 Regal on Ebay, don't know what color it is, might be worth going for.
Thanks for letting me share,
Kim

63larkcustom
11-04-2006, 11:57 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Kim, I saw the fabric.. just not the right color. My car was originally Rosemist with the chestnut interior... After stripping through the three coats of paint that are on it.. have decided to put it back to Rosemist. Have run into a few challenges with the titlework. Everything is at a standstill until this is fixed.. So...keeping fingers crossed here. I went and looked at a 64 Lark today as a backup in case the title issue cant be resolved. I don't particularly like the way it felt.. I guess ol Lucy wormed her way under my skin..must be the wayward puppy/kitten/studey syndrome.

sbca96
11-06-2006, 05:21 AM
Whats the problem with the title?

Tom

63larkcustom
11-06-2006, 02:48 PM
I bought the car from a lien sale with a supposed clean california title... the paperwork does not match the vin on the car... I'm workign with dmv to figure out what to do.

StudeRich
11-06-2006, 04:58 PM
Bob; is there any sign that the electric welds on the Serial # plate are not original? There should be at least 2 or more on the perimeter. Plate torn etc.? Not welded in the masked, bare square on the forward drivers' door post? These would be signs of funny business going on, with the body being re-serialized. There is supposed to be a duplicate serial on the lower flange of the rearmost frame crossmember that the Calif. CHP is aware of, and can be verified.
Rich.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

sbca96
11-06-2006, 11:50 PM
Doesnt really fit the bill of a popular car for some underhanded VIN
switching. We arent talking about a Ferrari here. Very odd! You
should be able to do a paperless title change, as long as there is no
history of the actual VIN being stolen. From your pictures, I dont
think there will be a dispute, though I would make sure everything is
taken care of before you sink the BIG money into it! Restoring a car
is hard enough, restoring it for someone else, with your money - sucks!

Tom

63larkcustom
11-18-2006, 01:45 AM
SUCCESS!!!! at 8pm tonight.. the little engine sputtered back to life!! Now for the rest of the car! The title issue has been resolved. Thanks for all the encouragement! New pics will be posted in short order.

StudeDave57
11-18-2006, 01:54 AM
Glad to hear it, and that we here on the forum were (hopefully) able to help...

StudeDave [8D]
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
'57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'