M 5 Trans

[kamzack]

M experts,

I've been working on an M5 coupe express doing a number of things and Now I'm working to solve a trans problem. Truck has had a T86 OD installed by second owner that was converted from side shift to top loader. The problem is jumping out of third gear in or out of overdrive. I gaged all the gaps, had a seasoned expert, who builds race engines, agree all inside is in excellant condition. All gears are as new condition, synchronizer works as it should. Had Stude expert walk me through all the clearences over the phone, checked out good. He suggested a pilot bushing. Installed a new one, same problem.
I wasn't thinking very well in the first reassembly, so I installed bushing where old one came from. It was in the flywheel. So, not thinking anything about it, put the new one there also. The old one was a bit mushroomed on trnas end and I've always known bushing goes in the crankshaft, so out it came again. Before I reinstall again, please advise me on where and what to look. My question is will the bushing riding on the input shft cause enough pressure to cause my problem? As I'm sure ya'll know, third gear is the very first gear on the main shaft in front of the sychro. HELP Can't get paid til it's done correctly.

Thanks in advance
Kim

[StudeRich]

Kim; I have no idea what engine is in this modified Truck, but if it's an M5 it would be a pickup TRUCK, not a '37, '38 or '39 Coupe Express!

It SHOULD have a Champion 170 cu. in. small "6" engine, which has the pilot bushing in the flywheel. The reason it comes out of gear may be because it has had a engine or bellhousing change and the crankshaft centerline is not "dial indicated" to the Trans. input shaft centerline!
That procedure is in the Shop Manual under Clutch Housing Installation.

So I guess that means, if you can put the input shaft in the crankshaft, it has the wrong input shaft AND the wrong flywheel!

Or...it's not an M5, it's a Commander Big "6" with the pilot bushing in the Crankshaft!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

Kim; I have no idea what engine is in this modified Truck, but if it's an M5 it would be a pickup TRUCK, not a '37, '38 or '39 Coupe Express!

Studebaker referred to its M series pick up trucks as "Coupe Express"



(BTW, people were either very tiny back in the day, or pick up trucks were HUGE [:0])

[whacker]

As Studerich says, the problem is most likely the bellhousing alignment. It needs to be dial indicated per the shop manual. This situation can also occur if you are using the original bellhousing and it has beem improperly assembled sometime in the past and then run that way a little. The first syptom of bellhousing alignment problems is jumping out of gear.

[kamzack]

Thanks for your respones. Thanks Dick for taking up for me "ie" Coupe Express. I wasn't keen on the idea of it's problem being the bushing, and had posed one the problems of jumping out of gear could be bellhousing alightment to the block being outside of .003. I have done several of these operations over the years, but was not lookin forward to Having to do it under the truck, will prsent it's own set of problems. The ones I've done have always been before installing in vehicle. I also did these procedure on my 64 T Cab, which was sold over 10 yrs ago. So I know what the proceedure is and have detailed it to the owner.
This M5 is a restored truck that it's owner, the third owner, bought at a Kruse auction for 13k in Auburn and I am it's caretaker. Has 21k original miles and is a nice truck, still has the original floor mat. I also know what the 37,38,39 coupe expresses looks like. and have ridden in Ford Stoecker's years ago. This M has a Champion six 169.6 cubic inch motor. I'm also curious if any of the M's came with a top loader shift. I've asked him to send for the build sheet in hopes it would tell if it was ordered with top loader or if some one changed it to tl. It also makes sense that the bellhousing was changed as it appears to have the off set bolt hole on lower passenger side of the transmission.
Again, I appreciate your input and any light you can shine on this, would be much appreciated.

Kim

[mbstude]

Most all of the M trucks came with a top loader, only the OverDrive equipped ones came from the factory with a column shift.

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA

[garyash]

I had to align the bell housing on my M5. I had a tough time trying to get a magnetic indicator base on the clutch housing, so I pulled the whole clutch out. Even then, I couldn't get the base to sit flat against the flywheel and still go around inside the bell housing without hitting something. I eventually made a 3" wide x 1/8" thick plate to bolt to the flywheel to get a big enough flat area near the crankshaft center. My mismatched engine and housing were out by about .025-.030". It took forever because I was working alone, had to climb out from under, turn the crank 90 degrees by hand, crawl back under to read the dial indicator. It would be much faster with two people. It also helps to have a little tiny dial indicator to ride around the inside of the bell housing hole.

After lining things up, I put a couple of 3/16" roll pins through the housing and engine plate to hold it temporarily, then reamed two bolt holes to use the big alignment bolts.

[img=left]http://www.studegarage.com/images/gary_ash_m5_sm.jpg[/img=left] Gary Ash
Dartmouth, Mass.
'48 M5
'65 Wagonaire Commander
'63 Wagonaire Standard
web site at http://www.studegarage.com

[kamzack]

Hey Gary,

Shoulda contacted you first, as you've helped in the past.To bring ya up to speed on the T-86 trans, we found some problems inside that couldn't been realized until dissambly. Whoever had been in it, should be allowed to work on transmissions. The top load shifter has to be modified to work correctly, the front bearing is shot, missing a couple of snap rings that would disallow third gear to engage compeletly, and on and on. what we got to thinking was after having miced the new and old pilot bushing, there is no evidence of being out of round. Old bushing worn evenly. I've orderd parts this AM, and hope to have back on the road by Monday.
Thanks for your positive input,

Kim