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**John Ratliff** · 09-25-2007, 08:10 PM

JDP, What rate are you useing for labor? I am about to have my 259 rebuilt.

John Ratliff

**StudeRich** · 09-25-2007, 08:13 PM

So John, is that $400.00 then for the Block machine shop labor?

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

**fmarshall** · 09-25-2007, 08:26 PM

Any chance that you are going to do a how-to, with pictures and special tips as only a highly experienced Studebaker lover can do?

That way the rest of us can effect a JDP quality rebuild.

========================
63 Avanti R2, 4-Speed, 3.73 TT
Martinez, CA

**Dick Steinkamp** · 09-25-2007, 08:32 PM

Hopefully, you can get away with just those items. Maybe even just rings, bearings, and lap in valves.

Most major rebuilds, however, would include things like: new valves, valve springs, valve guides, keepers, valve seat inserts, 3 angle job on valve seats, rebuild rocker shafts, deck block, true up heads, timing gear set, rebuild rods, line bore mains, new (or reground) cam, new oil pump, grind (and/or polish) crank.

Again, you can often get away with less, but if the car is a "keeper" I would most likely do a complete rebuild. I think Leonard and a few others here had bad experiences with "short cut" rebuilds.

The other half (maybe more than half) is the proper assembly. JDP has obviously done many Stude V8's successfully. If you haven't, I'd pay whatever it takes to have a Stude V8 expert do that part. After all the money in parts and machining, it's all too easy to end up with a hunk of scrap iron with improper assembly.

**JDP** · 09-25-2007, 09:01 PM

Dick, I have heard over and over about replacing damn near every part in a rebuild, but even on a keeper, it's usually not needed.i.e. if the guides are worn just a bit, the Perfect Circle seals will do a better job then NOS guides and the factory crap seals. As to 3 angle valve jobs, head decking, new timing gears and the rest are just a bit over the top on a typical Studebaker V8, especially replacing the aluminum timing gear and steel crank gear.
Having said that, don't use my rebuilds as a expert guide since when you pay for a pro rebuild, they will replace most every part since the customer is paying the bill. To me, a valve and seat in good condition will function just as well as shiny new ones after a valve grind. Same with the rest of the parts, if they are inspected and checked out, they'll do just fine. I rebuild V8's, just like the Studebaker dealer would have done, check all parts, replace ones out of spec, use the rest. I know how the pro's can charge 5-7K to rebuild a V8, I'm just not convinced it's worth the extra cost. I did bore this block even though the the bores checked out within specs though. The engine only had 60,000 miles or so on it, and didn't look like it even needed a rebuild, but it was apart when I got it.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 Lark 2 door
58 Packard HT
56 Golden Hawk
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

**JDP** · 09-25-2007, 09:07 PM

StudeRich
Yea, I forgot to put the $400 in the detail listing, but did include it in the total. The $400 was to bore the block .040, hot tank the block 3 times total,once after the bore, and install cam bearings.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 Lark 2 door
58 Packard HT
56 Golden Hawk
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

**JDP** · 09-25-2007, 09:31 PM

fmarshall

I'll be glad to share what I do, and others can chime in with other idea's. Basically, follow the shop manual, with a few enhancements. Here's a few I use:

Pull all the oil gallery and water/freeze plugs before you have the block hot tanked, pay to have it "cooked" long enough to get rid of all the sludge and left over sand. When you get it back and on the stand, wash it down with soapy water, flush everything, blow and towel dry, run a thin bush down all the oil passages. (Eastwood tools sells engine brushes just for that purpose.) I install brass freeze plugs and drain plugs. Chase all the bolt holes with a tap, especially the head bolts holes. If you are going nuts, you can grind off all the casting flashes on various edges before cleaning and paint the inside of the engine with Glyptal Red coating. Keep everything clean, including your hands when you assemble the block.
That and installing the crank and cam is all I got done today, as I put it together if I think of anything not spelled out in the shop manual. BTW, I use lots of assembly lube on everything as it goes together. Don't skip checking the crankshaft end play and bearing clearances, nor bang on any gears with a hammer.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 Lark 2 door
58 Packard HT
56 Golden Hawk
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

**Dick Steinkamp** · 09-26-2007, 07:43 AM

quote:Originally posted by JDP
The engine only had 60,000 miles or so on it, and didn't look like it even needed a rebuild, but it was apart when I got it.

I'd say there is a BIG difference between what you are currently working on and a worn out motor that needs a rebuild.

**59r2** · 09-26-2007, 12:51 PM

Sorry if you took it wrong, I was only trying to show costs
of options and services on the east coast.

1959 HARDTOP R2 clone
1960 conv
SDC member since 1972

**rusty nut garage** · 09-26-2007, 12:57 PM

For a quote "hot rodder" your spot on. I like you more and more and we've never met other than a couple of emails!!
Russ

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

Hopefully, you can get away with just those items. Maybe even just rings, bearings, and lap in valves.

Most major rebuilds, however, would include things like: new valves, valve springs, valve guides, keepers, valve seat inserts, 3 angle job on valve seats, rebuild rocker shafts, deck block, true up heads, timing gear set, rebuild rods, line bore mains, new (or reground) cam, new oil pump, grind (and/or polish) crank.

Again, you can often get away with less, but if the car is a "keeper" I would most likely do a complete rebuild. I think Leonard and a few others here had bad experiences with "short cut" rebuilds.

The other half (maybe more than half) is the proper assembly. JDP has obviously done many Stude V8's successfully. If you haven't, I'd pay whatever it takes to have a Stude V8 expert do that part. After all the money in parts and machining, it's all too easy to end up with a hunk of scrap iron with improper assembly.

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

**Dick Steinkamp** · 09-26-2007, 02:33 PM

quote:Originally posted by 59r2

Sorry if you took it wrong, I was only trying to show costs
of options and services on the east coast.

Joseph,
My comment was in reference to JDP's 60,000 mile engine that he is presently doing. Your experience is more like what I have seen with a Stude V8. It looks like you've got about $4,000 into yours (without the supercharger) plus 26 hours of assembly labor (not counting the port job).

My personal opinion is that if someone thinks they are going to get a completely rebuilt Stude V8 for $1400 in parts and machining plus a day and a half labor they are probably in for a big surprise.

I'm sure JDP's engine will be a nice running engine when he's done, but not everyone starts with a 60,000 mile engine that "didn't look like it needed a rebuild" nor does everyone have JDP's expertise.

To rebuild a worn out Stude V8, my experience is a MINIMUM of about $1500 in parts, $1500 in machine work, and $1000 in assembly. Could be more if your crank is no good, cracked head(s), etc. You can "freshen" one for less, and if you are an expert on assembling Stude V8's you can save the assembly cost. IMHO, if you count on $4k, you'll not be too disappointed with the final cost. If you only budget $1400, you could be another "failed project" statistic when that is spent and the motor is not close to being done.

Russ,
Funny thing, but I've owned and restored far more bone stock Studebakers than Studebaker hot rods. I think because a lot of folks believe you HAVE to be one or the other (you're not allowed to enjoy multiple segments of the old car hobby) and that's why I get labeled a "hot rodder". Shoot, I also do antique tractors, SCCA racing, drag racing, and fly airplanes. I hope the word doesn't get out!

**studelover** · 09-26-2007, 02:33 PM

you all are kind of close, I am replacing most things. I have alot of machining, I bought all my parts.[

]

Studebakers forever!

**JDP** · 09-26-2007, 02:53 PM

Well, the short block went together like butter, just got hung up on getting that damn connecting rod pinch pin lined up on a couple of pistons. BTW, I learned from Ted Harbit to give the bolt a few taps with a brass drift and keep tightening. It'll make sure it seats all the way in. Also, especially with the Avanti pistons, make damn sure you have the correct ring gap. I'm 8 hours in to go from the bare block to a short block, no major surprises on anything yet.
Again, I rebuilding the engine the way your Studebaker dealer would, not replacing every moving part. i.e. I've never, ever, line bored a Studebaker blocks or needed to replace a valve seat. I do have a stash of good, used heads, valve spring and such that many will not, but nothing on this engine needed it yet. I also noticed in the other post that he paid almost double for his parts, $220 for a gasket kit is just a example. It also helped that a NOS cam, lifters and crank shaft came with the car.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 Lark 2 door
58 Packard HT
56 Golden Hawk
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

**Roscomacaw** · 09-26-2007, 02:57 PM

I would NEVER buy one of those "overhaul kits" unless I'd taken the engine apart and found that EVERY SINGLE part was worn beyond rehab.

There's this SBC mindset (actually Machine Shop mindset) that you just summarily replace EVERYTHING because if part of the engine's tired, it's ALL gotta be tired. Factor in that Stude parts ARE gonna be more expensive than BrandX parts (mainly 'cause there ain't a BAjillion suppliers competing for your bucks!) and a "rebuild" sounds daunting at best. This is often (if we can believe what we read here from time to time)the catalyst to 350-izing a Stude.
I know what the "experts" say and what I've gotten away with over the years. Crap - last time I was into Pete's old engine (11 years ago), I used one old compression ring to reassemble it because I'd broken one and didn't want to buy another set for one ring or wait while I located one ring. When I got it back together, you couldn't tell that I'd fudged on #7 cylinder. It ran for 11 years like that until it developed a coolant leak. That was certainly my fault rather than any of the used parts I stuck back together, of which new rings and valve seals were all that was really warranted.[^]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

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