'57 Packard with Factory A/C BEING PARTED OUT!

[studesnbldr]

Well, the 1957 Packard Clipper with factory air that was just on Ebay, which we discussed over the last week, did not meet the seller's reserve. [u]The car's untimely demise has now arrived.</u> As I write this post, the factory supercharger set-up has already been removed and will be posted for sale on Ebay very soon. The owner plans to have the entire factory trunk mounted Novi brand A/C system removed from the Clipper within the next few days and, it too, will be auctioned off to the highest bidder. After installing a 4bbl carb & manifold, the rest of the car will be sold off as-is. Others on the forum seemed to feel that, as equipped and requiring a complete restoration, $2,500 would have been a fair price to pay for this complete & well-optioned '57 Clipper. It was bid up to $3,750 and was still over $1,200 away from the seller's reserve!! Amazing what short-sightedness and greed can do to people in this hobby. So much for preserving our automotive heritage.

Christof Kheim
---studesnbldr
christof@rockymountainstudebaker.net

[bams50]

Sometimes it's hard for me to remember that the majority of people could not care less about Studebakers- or any old car, for that matter; and that a large percentage of people believe the world would be a much better place if all old cars were wiped off the face of it...

Seems this car is owned by one of the above; wants to get rid of the piece of junk, and squeeze every possible penny out of it It's likely he will get more that way, if he breaks it down far enough

I truly believe that God likes old cars. I also always agreed with JDP's karma-wheel concept.

Hope the seller has a good life.......

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

[bams50]

Sometimes it's hard for me to remember that the majority of people could not care less about Studebakers- or any old car, for that matter; and that a large percentage of people believe the world would be a much better place if all old cars were wiped off the face of it...

Seems this car is owned by one of the above; wants to get rid of the piece of junk, and squeeze every possible penny out of it It's likely he will get more that way, if he breaks it down far enough

I truly believe that God likes old cars. I also always agreed with JDP's karma-wheel concept.

Hope the seller has a good life.......

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

[JDP]

I don't see where he is parting it out, he's just removing the valuable bits. By selling the blower and AC he can reduce the price of the car enough that someone might be tempted to restore it. I got the same kind of comments when I sold the fog lights off a President sedan to save the rest of the car. Give the owner credit for installing a 4 barrel to keep the car on the road. Just because "others on the forum felt $2500 was a fair price" does not mean the owner agrees. He apparently knew that the AC and supercharger alone was worth more then that.
I can't accuse the owner of greed, since I don't know how much money he had in the car, but where is it written that a seller should sell a car for less then it's parts value ? If you want to preserve our automotive heritage and money is out of the equation, buy all the project cars that are worth more in parts and save them. I hate to part out any car, but I also understand why it happens. I can't tell you the number of times I've offered a low ball price on a project Avanti for example even though I knew it was worth a lot more in parts and got no takers. Sorry for the rant.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 Lark 2 door
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

[JDP]

I don't see where he is parting it out, he's just removing the valuable bits. By selling the blower and AC he can reduce the price of the car enough that someone might be tempted to restore it. I got the same kind of comments when I sold the fog lights off a President sedan to save the rest of the car. Give the owner credit for installing a 4 barrel to keep the car on the road. Just because "others on the forum felt $2500 was a fair price" does not mean the owner agrees. He apparently knew that the AC and supercharger alone was worth more then that.
I can't accuse the owner of greed, since I don't know how much money he had in the car, but where is it written that a seller should sell a car for less then it's parts value ? If you want to preserve our automotive heritage and money is out of the equation, buy all the project cars that are worth more in parts and save them. I hate to part out any car, but I also understand why it happens. I can't tell you the number of times I've offered a low ball price on a project Avanti for example even though I knew it was worth a lot more in parts and got no takers. Sorry for the rant.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 Lark 2 door
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

[56H-Y6]

Hi

Sad that the car won't be preserved and restored as the factory equipped it. But not surprising considering the demand and value both the supercharger and factory air units have to restorers of more widely collected Studebaker models.

I too would love to see a restored full equipped '57 Clipper but I doubt that will ever happen, given that only a few of us consider them worthy of preservation at all.

I suppose we should be pleased to know the owner will at least make the car functional enough to sell to someone who can restore it as a driver.

By the way, anyone have a decent '57 Clipper driver condition within 300 miles of Western New York they would be willing to sell reasonably to an underfinanced enthusiast?

Steve

[56H-Y6]

Hi

Sad that the car won't be preserved and restored as the factory equipped it. But not surprising considering the demand and value both the supercharger and factory air units have to restorers of more widely collected Studebaker models.

I too would love to see a restored full equipped '57 Clipper but I doubt that will ever happen, given that only a few of us consider them worthy of preservation at all.

I suppose we should be pleased to know the owner will at least make the car functional enough to sell to someone who can restore it as a driver.

By the way, anyone have a decent '57 Clipper driver condition within 300 miles of Western New York they would be willing to sell reasonably to an underfinanced enthusiast?

Steve

[bams50]

John, all I'm saying is that this seller obviously has no interest in the preservation of this car as it was meant to be. Probably bought it thinking it was worth 10 or 20K because he hadn't seen one before, and bought it just to make big bucks on. Now he's disappointed and trying to find a way to get what he can. I'm a little surprized at your defense of the concept, knowing that you've taken less for stuff in the interest of preservation- I own a good example of that! Surely you know you could have gotten more out of Gertie than you did!

This car is significant because of how it's equipped; now he'll probably be disappointed AGAIN when he sees what it'll draw with the blower and A/C gutted....

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

[bams50]

John, all I'm saying is that this seller obviously has no interest in the preservation of this car as it was meant to be. Probably bought it thinking it was worth 10 or 20K because he hadn't seen one before, and bought it just to make big bucks on. Now he's disappointed and trying to find a way to get what he can. I'm a little surprized at your defense of the concept, knowing that you've taken less for stuff in the interest of preservation- I own a good example of that! Surely you know you could have gotten more out of Gertie than you did!

This car is significant because of how it's equipped; now he'll probably be disappointed AGAIN when he sees what it'll draw with the blower and A/C gutted....

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

[JDP]

My point is you can be both interested in the preservation and be a capitalist. The question is, how much money should the seller be willing to lose to preserve the car ? Many times, I'd be willing to part with a few dollars to save a car rather then part it out, but there is a limit. I think his 5K reserve is based on what he thinks he'll get for the car and the AC/blower. At the $3750 high bid, he may think that a potential loss of $1250 is a bit much just to spin the Studebaker Karma wheel.
You have two preservation choices in your own dealings, never part out a car regardless of the loss of potential profit , and buy all the project cars you can at close to their parts value. I don't think picking on the seller just because he's trying to get the best price possible is useful. We can all agree that it's sad that someone did not pay what the car and parts may be worth and save the car, but I don't fault the owner for selling the parts and reducing the price of the car.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 Lark 2 door
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

[JDP]

My point is you can be both interested in the preservation and be a capitalist. The question is, how much money should the seller be willing to lose to preserve the car ? Many times, I'd be willing to part with a few dollars to save a car rather then part it out, but there is a limit. I think his 5K reserve is based on what he thinks he'll get for the car and the AC/blower. At the $3750 high bid, he may think that a potential loss of $1250 is a bit much just to spin the Studebaker Karma wheel.
You have two preservation choices in your own dealings, never part out a car regardless of the loss of potential profit , and buy all the project cars you can at close to their parts value. I don't think picking on the seller just because he's trying to get the best price possible is useful. We can all agree that it's sad that someone did not pay what the car and parts may be worth and save the car, but I don't fault the owner for selling the parts and reducing the price of the car.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 Lark 2 door
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

[StudeDave57]

I'm going to stay well clear of this topic...


StudeDave [8D]
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
'57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

[StudeDave57]

I'm going to stay well clear of this topic...


StudeDave [8D]
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...) 'Betsy'
'57 Commander 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

[studesnbldr]

Sorry JDP, but I [u]cannot</u> agree with your rsponse to my post. Forgive my following rant, but I am, admittedly, very passionate about this subject.

The number of these cars produced was very few to begin with, let alone an example equipped such as this one. Can anyone on this forum tell me when the last time, if ever, that they've seen any roadworthy factory AC equipped supercharged '57 Packard currently in our midst???? I happen to known the seller & parter of this formerly complete car. For all the 20+ years I've known him he has always been critical of those who have parted out restorable vehicles, insisting they go to a good home for restoration. We all know people who are part-out obsessed and, until now, he was never been one of those individuals. He initially purchased this Packard some three years ago with the intent to do, at least, a mechanical restoration, knowing this to be a very rare car. After some examination he realized it was more of a project than he really wanted to take on, deciding to sell it. The amount to which this car was bid on Ebay is more than double what he had into the car. Unfortunately, like so many in the car hobby today, the internet, particularly Ebay, has driven prices of many cars and parts unrealistically high, donning sellers with rose-colored glasses. Everything today is worth gold because, after-all look what a similar example brought on Ebay; I say nonsense. We all know that most cars are worth more as parts than whole, particularly when it comes to some Studebaker products, but that does not justify parting them merely for monies sake. I'd wager that even if he is good enough to include a four-barrel manifold and carb with the stripped car, it will most likely have it's now seized engine yanked out and the rest scrapped or at best be rodded with a big-block GM power plant. Keep in mind that this car will be less the AC required pulleys, the specially designed generator/power steering pump setup, etc. Also, this 289 is seized tight, the transmission is in unknown, if at all operational condition, etc. What incentive is anyone going to have to save a stripped car?? More often than not, cars like ours will not garner the big-bucks with a majority never regaining their pre or post restoration expenses. Most of us collect and restore these cars for the love of the hobby. This seller will tell you how much time he has put into this car; well, the dollar value of our time will certainly never be recouped. He, like so many now, sees these types of vehicles merely as a way to make a quick buck. If more people gain this attitude, how many of the potentially restorable cars will remain, let alone at affordable prices?? Perhaps I am the exception to the common man, but I'd rather see a restoration project or drivable dream go to an enthusiastic new owner, who is intent on preserving that vehicle, at a realistic price rather than worry about making a bank-roll on each sale.

Well, for those of you who've made it this far in my soap-box speech, please know we are all agreed to be able to disagree and this is simply my opinion on one of my hot-button topics. Take it or leave it, this is my food for thought. Thanks for allowing me to vent.

Christof Kheim
---studesnbldr
christof@rockymountainstudebaker.net

[studesnbldr]

Sorry JDP, but I [u]cannot</u> agree with your rsponse to my post. Forgive my following rant, but I am, admittedly, very passionate about this subject.

The number of these cars produced was very few to begin with, let alone an example equipped such as this one. Can anyone on this forum tell me when the last time, if ever, that they've seen any roadworthy factory AC equipped supercharged '57 Packard currently in our midst???? I happen to known the seller & parter of this formerly complete car. For all the 20+ years I've known him he has always been critical of those who have parted out restorable vehicles, insisting they go to a good home for restoration. We all know people who are part-out obsessed and, until now, he was never been one of those individuals. He initially purchased this Packard some three years ago with the intent to do, at least, a mechanical restoration, knowing this to be a very rare car. After some examination he realized it was more of a project than he really wanted to take on, deciding to sell it. The amount to which this car was bid on Ebay is more than double what he had into the car. Unfortunately, like so many in the car hobby today, the internet, particularly Ebay, has driven prices of many cars and parts unrealistically high, donning sellers with rose-colored glasses. Everything today is worth gold because, after-all look what a similar example brought on Ebay; I say nonsense. We all know that most cars are worth more as parts than whole, particularly when it comes to some Studebaker products, but that does not justify parting them merely for monies sake. I'd wager that even if he is good enough to include a four-barrel manifold and carb with the stripped car, it will most likely have it's now seized engine yanked out and the rest scrapped or at best be rodded with a big-block GM power plant. Keep in mind that this car will be less the AC required pulleys, the specially designed generator/power steering pump setup, etc. Also, this 289 is seized tight, the transmission is in unknown, if at all operational condition, etc. What incentive is anyone going to have to save a stripped car?? More often than not, cars like ours will not garner the big-bucks with a majority never regaining their pre or post restoration expenses. Most of us collect and restore these cars for the love of the hobby. This seller will tell you how much time he has put into this car; well, the dollar value of our time will certainly never be recouped. He, like so many now, sees these types of vehicles merely as a way to make a quick buck. If more people gain this attitude, how many of the potentially restorable cars will remain, let alone at affordable prices?? Perhaps I am the exception to the common man, but I'd rather see a restoration project or drivable dream go to an enthusiastic new owner, who is intent on preserving that vehicle, at a realistic price rather than worry about making a bank-roll on each sale.

Well, for those of you who've made it this far in my soap-box speech, please know we are all agreed to be able to disagree and this is simply my opinion on one of my hot-button topics. Take it or leave it, this is my food for thought. Thanks for allowing me to vent.

Christof Kheim
---studesnbldr
christof@rockymountainstudebaker.net