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rgallatin
12-27-2013, 08:59 AM
Does anyone know if "RQA" and "RQB" stand for anything specific in the Avanti II (http://www.theavanti.net/avanti_ii.html) serial numbers? And, incidentally, where are the Avanti II serial numbers located?

Gunslinger
12-27-2013, 09:56 AM
The serial numbers are located on a plate on the drivers door post between the hinges. The "RQA" was simply what Avanti Motors designated the car model at the beginning...presumably to differentiate it from Studebaker production. It changed to "RQB" about 1970 when a series of changes to the car made it desirable to do so. That would include some mandated federal changes such as head restraints on the seats. Also there was a change from the GM 327 engine to the 350 and a capacitive discharge ignition being added as standard. I've read where the "RQA" would be continued as a more base model Avanti and the "RQB" would be an upgraded car but if there's any truth to that, it didn't work out that way. Early in the 1970 model year all production became "RQB" cars.

plwindish
12-27-2013, 11:54 AM
My serial number plate for the 76 was evidently lost during a 1989 repaint as it was not on the car when I bought it in 2011. There was a foil type sticker the was peeled off the rear door frame under the latch that was in the owner's manual. There is also a serial number on on the driver's corner of the dash that can be observed through the lower right corner of the windshield, not sure what year they started doing that.

Gunslinger
12-27-2013, 12:28 PM
The foil sticker on the rear door post gives information of serial number and month/year of manufacture, along with a statement it met all regulations at time of manufacture. In Avanti Motors case, it also gives exemptions to some safety rules as the feds gave low volume car makers extended time periods to comply...the sticker lists those exemptions.

My '70 had the serial number tag on the dash but when I replaced the vinyl dash padding it was lost.

rgallatin
12-27-2013, 03:43 PM
Thanks for the Avanti II serial number info. I plan to integrate some of this into the Altman pages (http://www.theavanti.net/altman.html) and the Avanti II registries (http://www.theavanti.net/register_65.html).

30905

SN-60
12-27-2013, 04:23 PM
I've always felt that a clean 'RQA' model Avanti II is the car to buy......All Studebaker except for the Corvette 327 CI engine (and that engine was no slouch) A hand made dream car!

SN-60
12-27-2013, 05:27 PM
Thanks for the Avanti II serial number info. I plan to integrate some of this into the Altman pages (http://www.theavanti.net/altman.html) and the Avanti II registries (http://www.theavanti.net/register_65.html).

30905

This photo of a white Avanti is on the factory brochure I received at the 1983 new car auto show in Boston, Massachusetts. There were two '83 Avantis on display there. Little did I know that I would own one of the two eleven years later!

SN-60
12-27-2013, 06:25 PM
I used to own RQA 0298...sold it to a fellow from Maine. Original color was Cadillac 'Tropic Green' Firemist. Anyone seen it around? (Not in Avanti Registry or AOAI, as far as I know)

studegary
12-28-2013, 12:27 PM
I used to own RQA 0298...sold it to a fellow from Maine. Original color was Cadillac 'Tropic Green' Firemist. Anyone seen it around? (Not in Avanti Registry or AOAI, as far as I know)

That would be one of the 56 1969 models.

SN-60
12-28-2013, 05:24 PM
That would be one of the 56 1969 models.

It is a '69, but the production order reveals something interesting......whoever ordered this Avanti must have decided not to buy it...It must have sat at the factory unused for a time....then sold and titled as a 1971 model Avanti. I still have the documentation on this. ALSO...it was equipped with rather unusual seating....a 'high back' bucket seat on the driver's side, and a 'low back' Studebaker Avanti type bucket seat on the passenger side.....all seating done up in the same tan 'tweed type' upholstery.

Gunslinger
12-28-2013, 06:07 PM
From what I understand from others (I know...third-hand information), it wasn't unknown for cars that went unsold to be retitled for the year they were sold. They would even be repainted if necessary and other changes made to facilitate the sale.

Since Avanti Motors continually built cars, even if not special ordered, this could have been a car built "on spec" for inventory...either for a dealer or for the factory itself.

While I'm not up on the law that required head rests for new production after a certain date, that this car had a drivers side high-back seat could have been to satisfy the federal law if sold as a '71 model year car.

According to copies of some factory documents I have, Avanti Motors began using the "Command Center High Back" seats starting with RQA0415, with the exceptions of RQA0422, RQA0416, RQA0417, RQA0418 and RQA0423. Since cars weren't aways sold or built in strict order of serial numbers, I would surmise the exceptions would have been completed before Avanti Motors had to comply with the federal regulation. Also, according to this documentation, this was implemented during the 1970 model year. I would also surmise all "RQB" vehicles were equipped with the high-back seats from the factory.

SN-60
12-28-2013, 06:19 PM
What Gunslinger wrote is interesting. It would also be interesting to hear from owners of other Avanti II's that were built with 'unusual' features. Also from owners of the rare factory 4 speed Avanti II's.

Gunslinger
12-28-2013, 07:22 PM
I don't know how many Avanti II's were built with 4-speeds...certainly far less percentage-wise than Studebaker Avantis, but it was in '69 that Hurst came out with an Avanti application shifter, so there must have been sufficient demand (or hoped for demand) for Hurst to be convinced to produce them. I can't see Hurst going to the engineering expense to come out with a shifter for an otherwise dead application that ended production in 1963.

I've read of numerous unusual features for Avanti II's...one car was built with a real marble inlay for the gauges which was supplied by the buyer...Julius Erving ("Dr. J") ordered a white-on-white Avanti with the seats modified for his height and long legs, etc. It makes one wonder whether these highly individualized cars still exist...and if so...do the current owners know the car's history?

There was also the supercharged Avanti II built for Robert Morrison of Molded Fiberglass. It was built with an ugly hump in the hood for supercharger clearance...apparently modifying the hood was easier than fabricating custom brackets for the blower, alternator, etc. That car was for sale some years back...I considered going after it but didn't. Maybe a dumb move on my part but I don't lose sleep over it.

sweetolbob
12-28-2013, 07:37 PM
Just a quick observation on the Hurst shifter. The one from my 74 (OEM 4-speed) looks pretty much like any other GM based Hurst Competition shifter but the lever has been cut and rewelded to fit the Avanti opening. It has to be OEM because I purchased it from the son of the OP and the lever had been chromed after welding. Not much effort whether Hurst or Avanti made the mods.

Bob

Gunslinger
12-28-2013, 08:04 PM
You have a point...the shifter may have been a minor modification easily done and required little effort. There was a print ad from Hurst announcing its availability back in the day. I still can't imagine Hurst going to the trouble without at least some market research...or requests from Avanti owners and/or Avanti Motors.

SN-60
12-29-2013, 09:46 AM
There was another 'celebrity' Avanti in the Massachusetts area years ago that was built for Dr. Joyce Brothers. A 'mid-seventies' car, this Avanti was white with a very striking interior....white leather with contrasting red piping on the seats. Unfortunately, this car fell into the wrong hands and was 'run into the ground'.

Gunslinger
12-29-2013, 10:23 AM
Way too many Avantis ended up that way.

SN-60
12-29-2013, 11:46 AM
This Gold Avanti II is a bit of an oddity....A very nice car, it's a 1969 'RQA' model. Sometime after it was sold it had a later 'RQB' type bucket seat interior, (tilt column etc.) installed into it. Whoever did this conversion did an excellent job. (They must have had access to a wrecked 'RQB' type Avanti II) This car belongs to My friend Charlie.

rgallatin
12-29-2013, 12:10 PM
Thanks for the Avanti II serial number info. I plan to integrate some of this into the Altman pages (http://www.theavanti.net/altman.html) and the Avanti II registries (http://www.theavanti.net/register_65.html).

This info has been added to the Avanti II registry pages:

The "RQA" serial numbers appeared on the first Avanti II models from 1966 through 1969. The "RQA" designation was changed to "RQB" in 1970 which continued to the 1984 "Touring Coupes" and 1985 models, with the exception of the 1983 "20th Anniversary" models. The first Avanti convertibles, which were 1985 models, were designated as "RQC." The serial number and month/year of manufacture, along with a statement that all regulations at time of manufacture had been met, is found on a foil sticker or metal plate located on the rear driver's door post between the hinges. Later model Avanti IIs, from the seventies through 1984, may also have a serial number on the driver's side of the dash that can be observed through the windshield.

http://www.theavanti.net/register_65.html

http://www.theavanti.net/register_70.html

http://www.theavanti.net/register_80.html

studegary
12-29-2013, 01:11 PM
This info has been added to the Avanti II registry pages:

The "RQA" serial numbers appeared on the first Avanti II models from 1966 through 1969. The "RQA" designation was changed to "RQB" in 1970 which continued to the 1984 "Touring Coupes" and 1985 models, with the exception of the 1983 "20th Anniversary" models. The first Avanti convertibles, which were 1985 models, were designated as "RQC." The serial number and month/year of manufacture, along with a statement that all regulations at time of manufacture had been met, is found on a foil sticker or metal plate located on the rear driver's door post between the hinges. Later model Avanti IIs, from the seventies through 1984, may also have a serial number on the driver's side of the dash that can be observed through the windshield.



How about starting with 1965, rather than "1966"?
The way that you worded the change from RQA to RQB looks like all 1970s are RQB, which is not the case. It would be better to say that the change from RQA to RQB was made during the 1970 model year.
All of the indicated Avantis are not Avanti IIs. They went from Avanti II back to Avanti during the 1983 model year.
You might also mention that the 1987-1991 models are RBK.
Why do you except the 1983 Anniversary cars? I thought that they were also RBQ (just their own series of numbers).
I believe that the foil sticker is on the B pillar, not "between the hinges"
It looks like I just rewrote most of your statement.

rgallatin
12-29-2013, 03:29 PM
Thank you. All good points. I am indebted to your keen observations. Let me take them one at a time. I hope this is clearly stated.

1. I have always thought that all the Avanti IIs built in 1965 were 1966 models because the Avanti IIs submitted to the Registry by owners have been designated as "1966." None have ever been submitted as "1965."

2. I agree that not all 1970s are RQB and will make the change accordingly.

3. You are right and not all 1983-1984 cars are Avanti IIs, but not all cars designated as "RQB" are Avanti IIs. The 83 Altman cars are "RQB" Avanti II models and the 84 Blake cars are "RBQ" models but are not Avanti IIs. I will try to make this clearer.

4. From 1987 to 1991 all the cars submitted to the Registry are 12AAV VIN numbers. What is "RBK"?

5. ALL the 1983 Anniversary cars submitted to the Registry are 12AAV numbers. I therefore do not know if they are also "RQB" numbers, though no one has ever submitted them as such. 1983 cars that are NOT Anniversary cars and 1984 cars are mostly submitted as "RQB" but a few owners of the 84s submitted both numbers.

6. My understanding was that the sticker was located on the door frame at the lower level; does the "B pillar" location indicate the door frame window level?

studegary
12-29-2013, 04:26 PM
Thank you. All good points. I am indebted to your keen observations. Let me take them one at a time. I hope this is clearly stated.

1. I have always thought that all the Avanti IIs built in 1965 were 1966 models because the Avanti IIs submitted to the Registry by owners have been designated as "1966." None have ever been submitted as "1965."

2. I agree that not all 1970s are RQB and will make the change accordingly.

3. You are right and not all 1983-1984 cars are Avanti IIs, but not all cars designated as "RQB" are Avanti IIs. The 83 Altman cars are "RQB" Avanti II models and the 84 Blake cars are "RBQ" models but are not Avanti IIs. I will try to make this clearer.

4. From 1987 to 1991 all the cars submitted to the Registry are 12AAV VIN numbers. What is "RBK"?

5. ALL the 1983 Anniversary cars submitted to the Registry are 12AAV numbers. I therefore do not know if they are also "RQB" numbers, though no one has ever submitted them as such. 1983 cars that are NOT Anniversary cars and 1984 cars are mostly submitted as "RQB" but a few owners of the 84s submitted both numbers.

6. My understanding was that the sticker was located on the door frame at the lower level; does the "B pillar" location indicate the door frame window level?

1) I believe that there were 56 1965 models. My 2011 AOAI Roster lists the owners and numbers for a couple of them (as 1965s).

2) Thanks

3) I thought that the 1983 Avantis were Blake cars with the II being dropped with the Anniversary Specials.

4) 5) RBQ & RBK are the Avanti designation, not the US official VIN that does start with 12AAV.

6) No, B pillar is where the door latches (A pillar is where the hinges are). The stickers were about mid-way on the painted area, near the door latch, on the B pillar.

SN-60
12-29-2013, 05:41 PM
Kind of interesting, (Nostalgic?), that when the Altman's and then Blake went with the mandatory federal sixteen digit VIN number, they still retained the Avanti 'R' type sequential serial number on the cars. I can't think of any other car manufacturer that did that....can anyone else?

Gunslinger
12-29-2013, 06:12 PM
The 2001-2007 Avantis use the internal inventory system as well. Since the cars have the GM or Ford VIN numbers (which are not sequential) for titling purposes, the internal sequence numbers make for better record keeping. That's how I know my car is #22 in production.

SN-60
12-29-2013, 06:17 PM
The 2001-2007 Avantis use the internal inventory system as well. Since the cars have the GM or Ford VIN numbers (which are not sequential) for titling purposes, the internal sequence numbers make for better record keeping. That's how I know my car is #22 in production.

That's interesting.....I didn't realize that they kept the 'internal' factory sequence number going on the later Avantis.

mombo54@hotmail.com
10-10-2014, 02:57 PM
I've always felt that a clean 'RQA' model Avanti II is the car to buy......All Studebaker except for the Corvette 327 CI engine (and that engine was no slouch) A hand made dream car!

I have one , it is a 1970 Avanti ll RQA0418 , I would like to sell it , would you or someone you know be interested in it ?

Lou Van Anne
10-10-2014, 05:10 PM
Mine is a '79 I purchased new with an RQB2999 serial number.

Avantidon
10-10-2014, 07:15 PM
If you are keeping track, RQB 1955 sits in my garage beside R2372 which was born in December of 1962