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southbend
12-06-2013, 06:16 PM
I thought all the CASO folks would appreciate this. I did some touch up paint work on my recently acquired '35 Dictator 4 door. An advantage to owning a black car is that you needn't be too concerned about color matching when the inevitable touch up time comes. The fellow I got the car from told me he bought it from the family of the original owner (no way to prove it, of course, but I trust him), and he put it in dry storage from 1975 to 2010 when he finally got around to tinkering with it (he has several cars). He got the car running and did what he deemed necessary mechanical work--tune up, put a new exhaust on it, put in a replacement gas tank (12 gal. aluminum as opposed to the original 14 gal.). When I asked about the brakes, he said he put new shoes on all four wheels, but didn't touch the cylinders or hoses since they looked good. This, of course, told me the car needed a brake job, especially since the brake pedal travels halfway to the floorboard before there's any resistance. That might also occur if the shoes aren't properly adjusted, too. The tranny whines a bit in first gear but it fires right up (usually--see my posting on the Tech page about the Stromberg carb problem). He redid the interior but not 100% authentic from what I can tell. What impressed me most about the car was the body and sheet metal. He repainted the fenders (the right rear fender is a bit rough--you can readily tell it was pounded out and bondoed) and the upper roof area when he installed the new vinyl insert. The rest of the paint appears to be original. The only dent is a small crease in the trunk by the left tail light. The top of the hood on the driver's side show a few minor dents. And there was very little rust on the body which brings me to the CASO paint touch up. Sorry for the long digression!

The paint, while original, is awfully tired. I don't think it's seen a coat of wax for at least a half century. There was a lot of road rash on the body--hundreds of little nicks, scratches, and chips. It must have seen a lot of gravel roads in its day. The paint had chipped away around the trim piece where the trunk meets the body with some minor surface rust forming. And there was some bubbling, crusting surface rust on both sides where the body meets the frame, mostly in cowl area. The PO removed the fenders to paint them (the fenders have new welting). Why he didn't touch up the cowl while the fenders were off is a mystery to me. To keep things from getting worse, I decided to do a little touch up work. Walmart was out of the $5.95 gloss black touch up paint, so I sprung for the $16.00 Duplicolor at the AutoZone (which does have a handy little abrasive tip for lightly rusted areas). This worked fine on the chips and scratches but not so good for the bigger stuff around the trunk and the cowl area. So back I go to Walmart for a half pint can of gloss black Rust-Oleum ($3.97) and a couple of toss-away 1" foam brushes ($0.53 each). I also found a few cheap Crayola brand artists paint brushes around the house and some sandpaper. With supplies in hand, I tackled the paint job today (It got up to 80 degrees here today--just had to mention that for the folks dealing with the current winter storm). Granted, up close the car looks like "The Great Speckled Bird" (remember that old Roy Acuff song?) but from 20 feet, ain't she sweet. This weekend I will put on a little "color back" wax to remove the heavy oxidation on it and see what happens. Sure beat a couple grand for a new paint job. Pics of the car are before the touch up job today.

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Nox
12-06-2013, 06:38 PM
A restored car is NEVER original... so what about all those guys who "restored the car to original"?
THIS is original, even with touch-ups it's just as any car from the old days without being a "rat"!
& I'm one of those who REALLY love this stuff!

skyway
12-06-2013, 06:41 PM
Very Nice!

63t-cab
12-06-2013, 08:02 PM
Very nice Dictator Mark, drive and enjoy :)

Green53
12-06-2013, 08:14 PM
you are doing the right thing just touching it up. I get a kick out of someone doing a body off the frame high dollar restoration and then entering the original class and then say they restored it to original.

Denny L

southbend
12-06-2013, 08:16 PM
Thanks guys. Here are some photos of my '50 Land Cruiser. The car now sports blackwall tires. The wide whites are pretty on a big black sedan, but to me it wasn't worth an extra $500.00 just for pretty. Besides, they're a bear to keep clean. I put the fender skirts back on it, so it doesn't look too bad. This car, too, is mostly original with the exception of repainted NOS fenders (I still consider this original since its NOS) and a bad repaint on the hood and trunk lid (soon to be corrected) done by a PO back in the 80s. The interior is all original except for the carpet. Yes, the pot metal is pitted, and the chrome is a bit dull and scratched, and some of the glass is a little cloudy, and the steering wheel has the inevitable cracks, and the engine compartment is a little grungy. But when folks see the car they often comment on how well the car held up over all these years. It seems a lot of people look past the imperfections when they view our cars through the soft lens of nostalgia. And, yes, I never did quite get the "restored to original" phrase. More accurately, "restored to original factory specifications," I guess.

Of course, I could have kept the rust and road rash on the '35, clear coated it, and called it "original patina.":):)

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rockinhawk
12-06-2013, 08:25 PM
LOVE your cars,Mark. Especially the 35. That's my favorite pre war car.

tbredehoft
12-06-2013, 08:30 PM
Makes me miss my '50 LC. It was deep maroon, yup, painted head light doors, too. But its been gone almost 60 years...

Corvanti
12-06-2013, 08:36 PM
great Studebaker!:!:

when i had my '40 "original survivor", i hit a few road rash specks with Duplicolor Universal Black with a toothpick. just enough to fill in the speck to level it out. i went with a clay bar treatment then used Meguiar's cleaner wax, followed with Meguiar's Gold Class carnauba and a light buff. i've tried the Turtle Wax "Color Magic" black polish in the past, but wasn't impressed with the results.

i believe the use of the clay bar is key to getting any old paint to look better. other waxes may be fine - that's just what i used for good results.

my 2 cents.:)

Corvanti
12-06-2013, 08:43 PM
i'm a really slow typist!:( i was talkin' about your '35 in the above post...

very nice Land Cruiser!:!:

WinM1895
12-06-2013, 08:58 PM
You'll need one of the spray qwik detail products from Mothers or Meguires to use with a clay bar. And...make sure to use a clay bar on cool sheet metal, otherwise...

To eliminate scratches that are 'in the paint' mix epoxy with touch up, dab it on with an ice cream stick.

When it dries, use 600 wet/dry to even it out, then rub out the scratches with DuPont White polishing compound.

Corley
12-06-2013, 09:04 PM
I see NOTHING CASO here at all, just smart.

Corvanti
12-06-2013, 09:27 PM
yes, what i meant by clay bar "treatment" was something like this: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Mothers-California-Gold-clay-bar-kit/_/N-25b9?itemIdentifier=189455_0_0_

easy on the sanding/polishing compound on the nearby thin 78 year old paint if you go that way! i'd probably start with 1000 wet/dry and work down to 400 if needed. but that's just me! :)

southbend
12-06-2013, 10:06 PM
yes, what i meant by clay bar "treatment" was something like this: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Mothers-California-Gold-clay-bar-kit/_/N-25b9?itemIdentifier=189455_0_0_

easy on the sanding/polishing compound on the nearby thin 78 year old paint if you go that way! i'd probably start with 1000 wet/dry and work down to 400 if needed. but that's just me! :)

That's why I thought I'd see if the wax for oxidized finishes did the trick first. I don't want to get too aggressive, otherwise I will be looking at a $2000 paint job!:)

Corvanti
12-06-2013, 10:27 PM
i would think it would be at least triple that $2K price for a decent paint job - unless you "know a guy" that does side work.:) unless you are planning on flipping it and do a "Maaco" that won't last long.

i still recommend the clay bar treatment and nothing more abrasive than the "cleaner wax". do part of the car and see if you like it.

as many folks say: "your car, your money", etc. etc... good luck! :cheers:

rockne10
12-06-2013, 11:38 PM
I don't want to get too aggressive, otherwise I will be looking at a $2000 paint job!:) On one that old? More like $6000. The cheapest CASO paint job is the one the factory did when it rolled off the line. :) I clay barred my original paint '33 before the Lancaster International Meet and was still deducted points for worn paint. Well...DUH!:woot: RIGHT! :ohmy: After eighty years it's not going to be as deep as that newly restored Packard Dietrich; just more fun to drive! :!:

southbend
12-07-2013, 07:21 AM
$6000 for a paint job? Really? Boy, am I out of touch. No wonder so many folks get priced out of the hobby these days if they aren't able to do it themselves. And I now better understand some of the prices asked for restored cars these days. Of course, I remember when gas was 29 cents a gallon and bread was 20 cents a loaf. I guess I need to better adjust my car hobby values for inflation, too. Have decided to try the clay bar. Will share my results with y'all.

southbend
12-07-2013, 07:36 AM
I clay barred my original paint '33 before the Lancaster International Meet and was still deducted points for worn paint. Well...DUH!:woot: RIGHT! :ohmy: After eighty years it's not going to be as deep as that newly restored Packard Dietrich; just more fun to drive! :!:

That's why I don't go in for having my cars judged. It's so arbitrary many times. Besides, I'm not a competitive person. I like shows that have a "display only" option. A lot of times the entry fee is less because you're not paying for the trinkets they hand out at the awards ceremony. My satisfaction comes from everyday folks enjoying my cars, not from a handful of judges who deem my car worthy of recognition. Sure, the judging (especially at SDC meets) can be valuable because it can point out what is "right" and "wrong" with your car. But I usually know most of the shortcomings, anyway. And while I like to keep my cars as "original" as possible, I'm not a hard purist. I run radial tires on the Land Cruiser, for example. I know I'd get points deducted for that one. But the car handles so much better on the road. Different strokes, I guess.

55s
12-07-2013, 08:28 AM
Nice Car! Having done judging before, and having talked to many people that just want something to drive, I fully support reasonably priced restorations/Drivers. I also support those that wish to have a perfect car. In fact, I also support all those who want to rod their cars. We are all different.

When I was 15, I attempted my first "full restoration." It was on a yellow $25 1955 Champion coupe. I secretly lusted for my mom's Speedster. I made the Champion into a good solid car with rust free fenders, some bondo, my mom's sewing machine, and a lot of hard work. It took almost two years, and was a little frustrating since I wanted to drive it. (no welding, no floor patches available at that time.)

Fast forward many years, and I still have that 1955 Champion coupe (which I'm afraid has not been driven for a few years), a 1955 Commander coupe that I bought as a parts car and is my avatar, AND my mom's Speedster. (Did I tell you I really like 1955s?)(plus a few more)

So drive and enjoy.

rockne10
12-07-2013, 08:51 AM
I run radial tires on the Land Cruiser, for example. I know I'd get points deducted for that one. Experienced judges, please correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe current judging policy in SDC is to not deduct points for correctly sized radials if all five tires match.

56H-Y6
12-07-2013, 09:03 AM
Hi Southbend

Yours is the smartest approach, preserve as much of the original finish as possible, touch up those areas that need it to arrest further deterioration. Perfection is highly overrated, adds nothing to an interesting car. You can proudly show that sweet '35 at any meet, those who know will be delighted to see it. AACA has the HPOF class (Historic Preservation of Original Features) that is one of the most interesting to see at Hershey. Enjoy that wonderful '35 Dictator.

RE: "After eighty years it's not going to be as deep as that newly restored Packard Dietrich; just more fun to drive!"

One of the most interesting '34 Packard Twelve Dietrich convertible sedans extant is a totally original, never restored car the owner loves just for that very reason too, he drives it! Seeing it is like seeing a wonderful time capsule of what one might have looked like in 1940, it's enough to give one goosebumps!

Steve

southbend
12-07-2013, 09:14 AM
Nice Car! Having done judging before, and having talked to many people that just want something to drive, I fully support reasonably priced restorations/Drivers. I also support those that wish to have a perfect car. In fact, I also support all those who want to rod their cars. We are all different.

When I was 15, I attempted my first "full restoration." It was on a yellow $25 1955 Champion coupe. I secretly lusted for my mom's Speedster. I made the Champion into a good solid car with rust free fenders, some bondo, my mom's sewing machine, and a lot of hard work. It took almost two years, and was a little frustrating since I wanted to drive it. (no welding, no floor patches available at that time.)

Fast forward many years, and I still have that 1955 Champion coupe (which I'm afraid has not been driven for a few years), a 1955 Commander coupe that I bought as a parts car and is my avatar, AND my mom's Speedster. (Did I tell you I really like 1955s?)(plus a few more)

So drive and enjoy.


Thanks for the compliment!

I agree. It's a big hobby. There is room for us all. And we all have our preference on how cars should be preserved and maintained.

I once had a '55 Champion two door sedan in the late '90s. It was an accidental purchase. A guy I worked with told me about the car which was parked in front of a house about 30 miles north of where I lived. So I went to look at it. It was owned by a young fellow who had inherited it from a relative. He was into muscle cars and wanted some cash to tinker with whatever muscle car he was working on at the time. I wasn't really all that interested so I gave him a low ball offer which he immediately jumped on! Be careful what you wish for. I had to it sell off in 2003 (along with my 3 other Studes and a '59 Edsel) when life changed for me. Was Studeless for the next 8 years. Then I bought the LC in '11. Now the '35. Gotta stop now. No more room in the garage!

Was your mom's sewing machine used for the upholstery or did it go under the hood of the '55?:)

Guido
12-07-2013, 11:39 AM
This is a CASO paint job... Below is the 1949 2R17A fire truck that I bought from Sharon Hall when she had the auction. Asa had begun work on the truck and the signage from the most recent fire department had been sanded off, leaving bare metal on the doors. I sanded them down and applied some primer to stop any further deterioration. This is how the truck appeared prior to starting the project.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o175/guidosalvage/Tremclad001.jpg

I started by going over the entire body and scraping any loose scale off with a putty knife. I then bought a new sander with a bag and went over the truck several times with progressively finer paper. Washed and dried it and hit any remaining bad spots.

Went to Lowes and got a gallon of Rust-o-Leum Safety Red paint, a couple of brushes, tape and several foam rollers of different sizes. Approached it like any painting project and did my cut in work with the brush first and then gave it a couple of coats with the roller. This is the end product.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o175/guidosalvage/Tremclad022.jpg

When all was said and done the entire job cost me less than $80 and I had an electric sander to boot. The paint is not UV resistant so it is not a long term solution, but it did protect the truck from deterioration. George O is now the owner of this vehicle and has given it a proper paint job. However, as a CASO Tremclad project it was a success.

dtracy
12-07-2013, 01:42 PM
Nice '35 Dictator! I used to have one of those, a 394 Olds will drop right in there and makes a big difference in the performace. And they look really nice painted Arlington Green Firemist. Thanks for the photos and the memories.

Dave.

rusty65
12-07-2013, 03:53 PM
I see NOTHING CASO here at all, just smart.

I agree.I admire someone who can work with just the materials they have.That car looks great!
You don't have a diddley-darned thing to be ashamed of.Good job!

southbend
12-12-2013, 10:08 AM
I used the clay bar treatment yesterday and was very satisfied with the results. I could actually see the some of the grime dissolve from the finish (tough on a black car) and sometimes feel it loosening up, too. The finish looks a lot less dull and feels so much cleaner and smoother now, too. I used the Mother's kit recommended by Corvanti: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Mothers-California-Gold-clay-bar-kit/_/N-25b9?itemIdentifier=189455_0_0_
Picked mine up from the local Advanced Auto for about 20 bucks. I would suggest you also pick up a pack of terrycloth towels, too. The one provided in the kit quickly becomes saturated. Extra towels are a must.
The treatment also gently removed some loose paint that I had missed and revealed some chips and scratches that I'd missed or hoped would "buff out" but probably won't. So, I'll hit those with the Rust-Olem, then do the wax job. If I'm not satisfied, I'll try the other suggestions posted here. But, I'll probably just stop with the wax. For better or worse, I'm not that picky and pretty easy to please.

I still need help with my wiper situation posted on the Tech Talk page, if you think you might be able to help--see post #5: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?77084-Need-35-Dictator-vacuum-wiper-motor-assembly

Thanks for all your help!

Kdancy
12-12-2013, 11:31 AM
A good tutorial --
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/63665-wayne-carini-1954-hudson-hornet-original-paint-restored-mike-phillips.html

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/73605-single-stage-paint-just-keeps-coming.html
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/72310-video-wayne-carini-s-1953-hudson-hornet.html

Not a lot of cars with good enough original paint to do this but the ones that do have it should be done this way.
And yes guys, by the time you spend the money and have the proper equipment to do the job, purchase quality material and do the stripping prepping and painting like it should be done, then stand behind your work
in case of any issues -- it ain't cheap!

52hawk
12-12-2013, 04:20 PM
southbend,I've been a body man and painter for most of my life-I would not paint that car! I'd do some touch up and clean up just as you have done. It's just too nice to "improve" with a paint job.
Once it's repainted,no-one will appreciate what is or may be under that paint.
Speaking of cost,the last paint job I did [here at home in my garage,as I am 'semi-retired' now] I got 6k plus over $1500 for paint and materials-this was on a 36 Ford truck,cab and front end,no box. And I certainly didn't get rich on that job!!

Corvanti
12-12-2013, 08:44 PM
happy the clay bar worked for you!:!: a good (carnauba, in my opinion) wax and you should be good to go.:)

Kerry D: (from Kerry W.;)). i read all of your links from Autogeek - some good info! if (when, i hope) i need to do another similar project, i'll check out the "Meguiar's #7. some of the products shown are above my paygrade nowadays.:(