700R vs 700R4 GM transmissions

[JRoberts]

I have been thinking about putting a GM overdrive automatic in my '65 Cruiser. I have been offered a 700R tranny. What is the difference between the 700R and the 700R4 tranny?

The tranny comes with a 305 small block that is in good running condition. I have considered putting that in my car rather than rebuilding the present 283. Any thoughts?

Finally, what is the going price for these things? (Tranny and engine)
Thanks Folks,
Joe Roberts

[KGlowacky]

Someone can probally do a better job then I can on this but here it goes. The 700r is non computer. (at least the one I used in my 46 PU was). The 700r4 I don't know but it may be the computer.
The price for the motor is very little. I don't know of anyone who wants a 305 SB. I really haven't even heard of anyone trying to sell one or buy one.
The trans are going anywhere from $300.00 to $900.00. It cost me 5 years ago $500.00 to rebuild mine. It is a great trans.
Good Luck

[Dick Steinkamp]

AFAIK, 700r, 700, 700r4 are all "shorthand" for a TH700R4. They are not computer controlled. The computer controlled version is a 4L60E. The other non computer controlled GM OD automatic is a TH2004R. The TH2004R is a slightly smaller and lighter package with a little higher ratio 1st gear than the TH700R4.

IMHO, the 305 is a good motor. It was made from '76 to '92. Not usually used for racing, but just fine for normal driving. Bore and stroke is 3.736" x 3.48". Bore and stroke on your 283 is 3.875" x 3.00". I have a 305 in my boat. It pulls like a 350 up to about 4000. You should get similar mileage with the 305 as your 283, but a noticeable increase in torque. You may have to rejet the current carb (2CV?) to get the best performance from the 305. Everything will move over from the 283 to the 305 no problem.

Prices will be all over the board for that 305/TH700R4 package. As cheap as $300...up to $1200 or so. It would be best if you could drive the car that it is in. Otherwise it is sort of a crap shoot.

[KGlowacky]

I knew someone would know the correct answers. I agree with the $300-$1200 range. Thanks Dick.

[JRoberts]

Thanks guys. The engine and transmission are actually out of an early 1980's Avanti. The owner came across a "built" 327 with a 5 speed manual to put in it. This means, of course, the engine is not in the car now. The owner is a good friend and said the 305 ran very good, he just wanted something a little more.
Joe Roberts

[Swifster]

Joe, this may go without saying, but I'd keep the original engine wrapped up and move it if and when you sell it. Some like having the original parts if the are available.

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Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $1755.45)

[Guest]

Joe just for your knowledge. i built a 305 TPI in an 86 IROC-Z it had a small stall 2400 a 700r4 3.73 rear gear. and its best time was a 13.23 @ 106.
It was a very surprising little engine and caused alot of arguement with the Mustang boys that it was a 350. I like a 305 its an underrated engine.

Erin Hays
"From Stuck and Rusty to Slick steel and sex appeal"
RZRECTD
1961 Hawk
1962 Lark
1963 Wagonaire

[JRoberts]

"Joe, this may go without saying, but I'd keep the original engine wrapped up and move it if and when you sell it. Some like having the original parts if the are available.

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Tom - Valrico, FL"

I actually am not sure that I won't simply(?) rebuild the 283 with a few hop up modifications. Decisions, decisions.....
Joe Roberts

[sbca96]

There is one other trans, the 4L60 (no "E"), it was used in around '93
and was in the Camaro, Corvette, and Firebird. It had the upgrades
that made the difference between the 700 and 4L60, but it was still a
"TV Cable" controlled trans. If you are not afraid of computers, the
computer controlled trans is MUCH better, though I am not sure how the
aftermarket controllers with on a carburated car.

When using ANY of the GM TV Cable transmissions, it is CRITICAL to get
the TV Cable adjusted correctly (proper travel, etc) for the trans to
last any length of time. You can NOT run the trans without the cable
hooked up like the "kickdown" on the Stude trans. The TV Cable on the
GM trans controls everything - it wont even shift out of first gear!
It will also slip like you wouldnt believe.

Tom

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

AFAIK, 700r, 700, 700r4 are all "shorthand" for a TH700R4. They are not computer controlled. The computer controlled version is a 4L60E.

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

[greener_dude]

I have a '78 305 smallblock in my 1955 studebaker pickup. its backed up with a th350c tranny with shift kit. the truck really pulls hard but it still has the orginal 4.11 gears in the rear end. The down side is that it is reving at 3,000rpm all the time when im cruising. Should I want to pull a trailer theres no worries in the world. A 350 would be a direct bolt in but I prefer the 305 as gas is expensive. Its not like a big 350 motor will make the tires burn rubber off any harder.

[sbca96]

Greener, we have a '78 305 powered Camaro, that is lucky to get 15 mpg
on the freeway with its pitiful 120 hp. To fix both problems, we are
installing a '94 Firebird LT1/4L60E into it. This will increase the hp
to 280, and the mpg to about 26. Rarely can you do something that will
increse both HP and MPG. BTW, anyone near S.B. Ca. that wants a '78
305 and 350 trans?[xx(]

Tom

[wally]

I believe that the 700 and the 200 overdrives actually do rely upon the "computer" in those 80's-model Gm Cars to control the convertor-lockup function. There are easily-installed aftermarket kits that can be used to make the lockup feature work by itself in retrofit installations. Or, you can use a toggle-switch wired to energize the lockup solenoid. As others have said, the trans cable to the throttle adjustment is critical on these--just like the old Powerglide, it controls internal oil pressure and shift points, whereas the turbo 350 just used a throttle cable to control downshifting at Wide-open throttle. Not having this set up properly will cause erratic shifting and premature failure of the transmission. [:0]As I recall, the overdrive transmissions will require relocation of the crossmember about 5 or 6 inches rearward, and maybe an inch or two off of the driveshaft.

[Swifster]

If you decided to use the 4L60E, GM Performance sells a stand alone computer box for hot rods. This allows the electronic trans on a carbureted car without the TV cable. If the TV cable is misadjusted, it will burn up the trans.

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Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $1755.45)

[sbca96]

On my '60 Hawk, I only moved the large A-piller crossmember back about
a half inch, and then cut about a 1/2 inch off the front edge to clear
the pan of the 700R4. It would be less work to remove the crossmember
and have a metal shop cut off an inch, and box it back in. Thats what
my buddy did with his '56 Sky Hawk.

Here is the lockup I used $175.95 :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BMM%2D70244&N=700+4294851526+400004+115&autoview=sku

"Control your lockup converter.
These B&M converter lockup controls provide dash-mounted control to govern converter lockup at any speed between 30 and 90 mph. An LED display tells whether the converter is locked or unlocked. These kits eliminate converter lock and unlock cycling and premature unwanted converter lockup, avoiding engine lugging and spark knock. They also provide lockup at highway speeds for fuel economy. These kits are perfect for converter lockup operation when converting a non-lockup equipped vehicle to a lockup-style transmission and converter."

Instructions :

http://store.summitracing.com/instructions.asp?File=bmm%2D70244%2Epdf

Tom

quote:Originally posted by wally

I believe that the 700 and the 200 overdrives actually do rely upon the "computer" in those 80's-model Gm Cars to control the convertor-lockup function.