Help - tooling for the '63 dash

[JimC]

Hey all,

I'm really interested in learning more about how Studebaker crafted the '63 dash pads. Does anyone have pictures of the tooling and other equipment they used?

[rkapteyn]

The tooling for the Avanti dash may be similar and was for sale on Ebay a while back and had detailed pictures.
The pictures are no longer on the Ebay listing.

• Avanti Dash Tooling F/S (Ebay 3/17/2013)
• "Just Dashes" in LA does a decent rebuilt of your old one. (800) 247-3274.
• Robert Kapteyn

[JimC]

I should specify: The lark tooling is my primary interest. That said, I did see the Avanti tooling when it was live on ebay. Were all the dashes built in a similar fashion?

[qsanford]

I wonder if any of the drawings are on file at the Museum Archive?

[Chris_Dresbach]

To my understanding, that piece of tooling never survived and we don't have it at SI... Otherwise we would be making them. Like any piece of tooling of that nature though it would have basically been a pattern and then covered with liquid vinyl. Let it cool, trim the edges, add the foam backing, and there you have it. I think there have been a few attempts at making reproduction '63 dashes in the past but just like an Avanti, if you don't have the original tool or proper blueprints it's extremely difficult to make an exact match. I know at least for us at SI, it took a lot of trial and error and R&D to make a really good, accurate Avanti dash and I stand behind what we currently offer.
If you are asking about the metal backer that goes under the dash, that would have been a series of stamping dies.

[jimmijim8]

Do what Dick S had done to his, sharp jimmijim

[JimC]

To my understanding, that piece of tooling never survived and we don't have it at SI... Otherwise we would be making them. Like any piece of tooling of that nature though it would have basically been a pattern and then covered with liquid vinyl. Let it cool, trim the edges, add the foam backing, and there you have it. I think there have been a few attempts at making reproduction '63 dashes in the past but just like an Avanti, if you don't have the original tool or proper blueprints it's extremely difficult to make an exact match. I know at least for us at SI, it took a lot of trial and error and R&D to make a really good, accurate Avanti dash and I stand behind what we currently offer.
If you are asking about the metal backer that goes under the dash, that would have been a series of stamping dies.

Interesting. So the factory was using a poured liquid vinyl. I wonder where you get something like that today. Is that what you guys are doing with the Avanti dashes? If so, how do you seperate the dried vinyl from the die?

Do what Dick S had done to his, sharp jimmijim

[jnormanh]

I should specify: The lark tooling is my primary interest. That said, I did see the Avanti tooling when it was live on ebay. Were all the dashes built in a similar fashion?

I believe all the Studebaker dash pads were made by the same process. A hollow forming buck made of wood and/or fiberglass is used, vacuum is applied inside the buck, and there are small holes to the outside, especially in the recessed areas. Flat, grained, unreinforced PVC sheet is heated to about 250-275F at which temperature is is quite soft and conformable. The hot PVC sheet is laid/stretched/massaged and pulled into place by the vacuum. It's then cooled via water mist, and removed from the buck. You now have the outer skin. The skin is then placed in a foaming mold made of metal and high temp epoxy, along with whatever metal inserts are used, the mold is closed and two-part foaming urethane is injected and allowed to cure.

The completed pad is then trimmed, and any cutouts for radio speaker, air vents, etc are done.

The alternate method for making skins is to slush mold them using metal molds and liquid PVC, but that process was only used when detail like stitching, multiple grain patterns etc were desired.

Many of the Ford dash pads of the 60s have stitching detail and were slush molded, as were some Chrysler and GM. All of the Stude pads I've seen are made from flat PVC sheet. I don't believe Studebaker ever used any dash pads which had skins made by slush molding liquid plastisol. Vacuum forming was a less expensive process, especially the tooling cost.

And none of the automakers made their own dash pads. During the 1950s-60s the only two companies in the USA capable of making one piece foam filled dash pads were Davidson Rubber and Sheller-Globe. I worked at Davidson at that time, and we didn't make any Studebaker pads, so they had to come from S-G.

The exception to the above are those pads which were obviously machine sewn as on my '60 Hawk. The tooling cost for them was nil, and they could have been made anywhere.

The skin/foam process has not been used for at least 30 years. Today all such pads and parts are made in a one shot molding process using self-skinning foam.

[lark63]

Very interesting info on dash forming ,you would think in this day and age it could be done by acreative person ,,as it ever been attempted?

[jimmijim8]

As a youngster there was thing available. It was called the vac-cu-form. It was great for youngsters way back. I think I'll buy my grandsons an erector set for xmas. cheers jimmijim

[stude dude]

Give John McCall a call. I believe he has done some of this work before and could possibly make some new dashes if a reliable sample and sufficient orders were provided.

Chris.

[jnormanh]

Very interesting info on dash forming ,you would think in this day and age it could be done by acreative person ,,as it ever been attempted?

"If" the original forming buck and foaming mold could be found, it might be possible, but you would still need the associated equipment and knowledge. To start from scratch, sure it could be done, anything can be done. As best I can recall, tooling up a new dash pad, back in the sixties was a half million dollars. can you do it at home for a reasonable cost. The answer is no. What you maybe can doi is patch and paint an old pad, or maybe search for a used pad from a cold climate and indoor storage. Heat and sunlight have destroyed most.

[1962larksedan]

"If" the original forming buck and foaming mold could be found, it might be possible, but you would still need the associated equipment and knowledge. To start from scratch, sure it could be done, anything can be done. As best I can recall, tooling up a new dash pad, back in the sixties was a half million dollars. can you do it at home for a reasonable cost. The answer is no. What you maybe can doi is patch and paint an old pad, or maybe search for a used pad from a cold climate and indoor storage. Heat and sunlight have destroyed most.

I agree although technology has progressed so much that it may be possible to stamp out copies of certain year/make/model dash pads for about $600 each.

[jnormanh]

I agree although technology has progressed so much that it may be possible to stamp out copies of certain year/make/model dash pads for about $600 each.

I don't know of any "stamping" process to make dash pads. Can you elaborate? The metal inserts are stamped, but the foam and skins have to be done by molding processes, at least as far as I know. I've been away from the auto trim business for a long time, what has happened that would allow the manufacture of a new dash pad for $600? I'd think you could sell quite a few dash pads for all makes at that price. Certainly someone restoring any of the high dollar 1950-60 s cars would go for one.


Do tell.

.

[Corvanti]

curious if some of those "new fangled" 3-D printers could make the base parts from plastic, seal together and then add the foam & cover...