Springs or no springs?

[Corley]

I'm planning to use gas filled supports to hold the hood and trunk open on the '54 Starliner. Both hood and trunk have springs incorporated into the hinges. I'm not sure if I will need the springs or not, after installing the gas lifts. Given the hokey nature of these hinges, do the springs perform any function when the hood and trunk are sitting there closed, such as holding the back of the hood or front of the trunk tightly closed, or do they assist in keeping the hinges working properly while opening in some way, or better yet, can I just leave them off. Those springs put a lot of pressure on the hinge points, and cause some un-natural forces, that I don't care for. (The plan is to install the gas lifts such that they push forward and up on the hood, and they push rearward and up on the trunk lid.)

Has anyone eliminated them when installing gas filled lifts?

PS (I don't need any comments like "you have to keep them to be stock", or "you will loose points without them", or "why would you want to eliminate them, they worked all these years", or "Please don't bastardize your Studebaker", there is not much "stock" about this car.)

PS/2 The hood is receiving new support material along it's edges, from the hinge end to well forward of the new lift point, and I'll retain the cross rod at the hinges.

[StudeRich]

The forward spring attached to the torsion bar appears to help a lot with that FORWARD motion that has to happen to get the Main Hinge and spring to open the hood without bending the rear corners. Not sure if you could remove that one.

[BeeJay]

I used a set of gas lifts on my '41 Pontiac without springs. I know that trunk is much heavier than the one on my '53

Bob

[jclary]

From my observation, the springs on our "prop-rod" hoods are more designed to keep the lids tight and snug when closed. They also perform an "anti-rattle" function. As far as using gas shock type springs...I would also continue to use the prop rod, even with the gas devices. The reason...I have never seen a prop rod fail when properly used. However, when the gas springs/shocks fail...it is usually sudden and without warning. Think about having your hand/arm/head in the path of a hood that suddenly slams down like an alligator on a mission!

Worse yet...how about an unsuspecting 10 year-old child at a car show.

Not long ago, it happened on my Dodge Ram. Some glitch cause the internal valving to let go and the hood slammed shut without warning. Odd thing about that was that it happened only once and they have worked fine since then. In the past, I have had them to fail and that meant they needed to be replaced. The experience, with the ones on my Dodge, have caused me not to trust them. Fortunately, when the ones on my Dodge failed, I was not in the way.

[gordr]

The hood, I would leave the stock springs in place. The trunk, I would replace the stock springs with softer ones, just to ensure that the hinges work smoothly.

[Corley]

John,

Are you sure? I always thought (maybe wrongly) that the gas was only used as a cushioning agent, and the internal springs were what did the actual lifting. I've got a bad one (got too weak) that maybe I'll cut apart and see what's in there.... Thanks for the thoughts...

[53commander]

John,

Are you sure? I always thought (maybe wrongly) that the gas was only used as a cushioning agent, and the internal springs were what did the actual lifting. I've got a bad one (got too weak) that maybe I'll cut apart and see what's in there.... Thanks for the thoughts...

They're gas assisted hydraulic much like a shock absorber. When they fail you can usually see the fluid leaking out. Toyota has a recall on the vans to replace the rear hatch struts and every one I've changed has fluid all around the seal. IMHO I love your idea on using them to replace the stock hinges but have to agree that they may not be all that reliable and/or safe. There is a company out there (the name escapes me) that can revalve them to make them stronger and perform better with hot or cold temperatures.

[48skyliner]

I have dealt with the rear hatch struts on early RX-7s for years - they lose their gas charge and won't hold up the hatch any more. I have never heard of a sudden failure of a gas strut, although apparently someone here experienced it.

The hoods on the early rX-7s had no springs, just a prop rod, which I always thought was a cheesy way of doing things. I finally did something about it and installed a gas strut on one side, which is quite sufficient for this relatively light weight hood, attached to a bracket which bolts to the hood hinge. It works really well, and every one of my RX-7 friends has insisted I make one for them so I have been in "limited production". I am using hatch struts from a VW hatchback sedan or almost identical ones from some sort of Hyundai, whatever I find out at the local Pick and Pull. These are 21-23 inches overall length. Every one I have used has worked perfectly. Install with the rod end down, so there is always fluid on top of the piston - Keeps the seal lubricated, plus apparently the fluid does not leak so easily as the gas.

For my 48 Champion project, one of my first decisions was to make the hood tilt forward. After experimenting with about a dozen different gas struts from my collection of junk, I concluded all the hatch struts were too stiff, ranging from 85 pounds to over 100, or else the stroke was not right. I ordered a pair of 30 pound rated struts from an on-line source, but have not yet installed them. Hopefully you have some leeway in your installation, so that you can adjust the attach point to give the right leverage for whatever struts you have.

This company's web page allows you to search by extended length, stroke, lift force, etc.

http://www.liftsupportsdepot.com/all-products.html

[Corley]

From my observation, the springs on our "prop-rod" hoods are more designed to keep the lids tight and snug when closed. They also perform an "anti-rattle" function. As far as using gas shock type springs...I would also continue to use the prop rod, even with the gas devices. The reason...I have never seen a prop rod fail when properly used. However, when the gas springs/shocks fail...it is usually sudden and without warning. Think about having your hand/arm/head in the path of a hood that suddenly slams down like an alligator on a mission!

Worse yet...how about an unsuspecting 10 year-old child at a car show.

Not long ago, it happened on my Dodge Ram. Some glitch cause the internal valving to let go and the hood slammed shut without warning. Odd thing about that was that it happened only once and they have worked fine since then. In the past, I have had them to fail and that meant they needed to be replaced. The experience, with the ones on my Dodge, have caused me not to trust them. Fortunately, when the ones on my Dodge failed, I was not in the way.

Hmmm... That seems a bit of a slippery slope, would you then advocate that every car, van, truck, etc. that uses gas filled lifts also use a prop rod? I have to assume that since I've not heard of a bunch of injuries, it's really not a very common failure, maybe even in the super-rare category. Also, I've never heard of a recall on it. I HAVE replaced a few because they were getting weak, and had a hard time holding a hood/trunk/Gate up, but no injuries there either.

[jclary]

Just got home from a funeral and checked in here. I'm not saying that they are dangerous, but, my experience shows that there is a hazard "potential" and some awareness needs to be observed. Back in the eighties, when I bought the topper for my Nissan truck...the vendor used "Life-time replacement guarantee" for the gas springs on the topper. I don't think they counted on my history of hanging on to things. I still have the truck and the topper. After several years, and about six sets of those things, the manager of the business finally told me that the manufacturer of the toppers was now out of business and he could no longer honor the guarantee. We settled on a heavier duty set for the last ones, about eight years ago. They are still working, but not as eagerly as when new.

The ones that failed, and suddenly slammed shut on my Dodge, only once, are still working. However, I use a prop stick if I am working on it. Almost all of them will fail quicker in cold weather. I used to have a customer that made them. The maintenance supervisor was a friend and, a couple of times, he took some in and had them rebuilt for me. Now that we are both retired...I no longer have that resource.

In my opinion, the springs on our stock Studebaker hinges assist in dampening their movement, keeping the lids snug, and as I said before, give some anti-rattle benefit. If you decide to use the gas struts, properly placed, I suppose they could serve the same purpose, in addition to holding the hood up when open. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[53commander]

Hmmm... That seems a bit of a slippery slope, would you then advocate that every car, van, truck, etc. that uses gas filled lifts also use a prop rod? I have to assume that since I've not heard of a bunch of injuries, it's really not a very common failure, maybe even in the super-rare category. Also, I've never heard of a recall on it. I HAVE replaced a few because they were getting weak, and had a hard time holding a hood/trunk/Gate up, but no injuries there either.

[EssexExport]

Here is the place to go for gas supports. Applied to my Chrysler Prowler, however there can be many other applications:

http://www.lstechnologies.ca/

[s2dbkr]

On my '50 I'm using gas shocks to hold the trunk lid open after eliminated the stock hinges and springs using an aftermarket articulating hinge. I'm now finding that without the springs to pull the lid down in the front, the lid sticks up, does not close all the way, and that's without trunk rubber. When I add the rubber it's going to become even worse. The springs also assist in holding the lid open ( there is no prop rod ), and as someone has said, the springs on the hood hinge keep the hood from flopping left and right when you open it. Now to my chagrin, I have to figure a way to add springs to these aftermarket hinges or go back using the stock ones which is really not an option as I've already eliminate the mounting points for those. Oh woe is me.
So my answer would be ...... if you want to add gas shocks, do so, but do not eliminate the springs.