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Polarity, Grounds, and regulators (Oh MY!!)

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  • Electrical: Polarity, Grounds, and regulators (Oh MY!!)


  • #2
    The only thing I can offer, (not really a fix) is that the wire from the coil to the distributor should match the ground, ie., in your case should be to the plus side of the coil.

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    • #3
      If your 54 is like my 50 bullet nose with the 170 motor, the car has what they call a 6 volt positive ground system. My original positive cable from the battery hooked to one of the head bolts on the front of the motor. There was also a smaller 10 gauge wire from the + terminal that hooked to the body. So yours, hooking to the generator brace might not be to bad. But, I think I would find a spot a little more non-vibrator(if that is a word). Must be --spell check says it's OK. Ammeter show charging all the time? Maybe some good electrical guys could chime in,,,but if you unhook the + cable and see if there is voltage from post to cable---something is shorted. check trunk light, under hood light etc. On the polarity issue. I myself am not very good with that, But I do know you have to polarize between the two correct posts.

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      • #4
        I don't believe you would actually "Kill" the Reg. my removing the Cover, however doing an adjustment is a tricky job requiring Temp. checks and varying with Temp. And if the most likely is the case burned Points, you will not fix anything.

        A New Reg. is probably needed, but you need to avoid the "Cheap" line of Parts, NAPA has a "Premium" line of electrical parts that should be better than poor quality off-shore units. We have access to Studebaker Part Numbers for these, but that won't help you. The VBE-6101A # would vary as to whose Part it is, no way to know if it is correct, or what brand from that number.

        If that number is for an Autolite System, it may very well be correct.
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner
        SDC Member Since 1967

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        • #5
          If the battery is hooked up backwards, the ammeter will read backwards. Is it really charging all the time it is running, or is it dis-charging all the time? Always charging means either a bad voltage regulator, or a severely discharged battery. Always discharging means a bad generator and sometimes a bad voltage regulator, too.

          My advice is to charge the battery (make sure there is equal amounts of water in all the cells) with a stand alone battery charger, replace the voltage regulator with a good quality new one, hook the battery up correctly, polarize the generator, and go from there. You can troubleshoot the generator/regulator combo with a small jumper wire. The instructions are in the shop manual, or any MOTOR's manual.

          It is always better to troubleshoot and identify the problem before making assumptions and taking things apart that were perfectly fine before they were disassembled.

          Most of the Champions I have seen hook the plus battery cable to a head bolt. I have seen them on the generator bracket, but that is not the best place for delivering the starting current required by the starter. Hooking the cable to the starter bolt is even better, but Champions are generally happy with the connection to the head bolt.

          Hooking up the battery backwards shortens the life of the regulator, but does not always kill it. Going inside the cover of the regulator, especially if one does not know much about voltage regulators, is usually the kiss of death for the regulator.

          The engine to chassis ground strap is often by one of the motor mounts, but I have also seen them on the firewall.

          Since the battery was dead when this whole adventure started, you might buy a hydrometer at your FLAPS and test each cell. Whether charged or discharged, all the cells must be equal. Nothing will work right if the battery has one bad cell.
          Last edited by RadioRoy; 10-29-2013, 12:12 PM.
          RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.


          10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
          4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
          5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon

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          • #6
            You know this but, from factory the car is POS ground.
            If it was wired NEG ground it was changed sometime in it's past.
            To change from pos ground to neg ground [or vice versa], swap the battery terminals, swap the leads to the ammeter, polarize the generator. [In your case, Autolite generator, with a jumper wire, momentarily jump between "A" and "B" terminal at the regulator.]
            If you don't swap the leads at the ammeter [and the charging system is working properly] it will show discharge when it is actually charging.
            The factory ground connection at the manifold was OK when the car was new, fresh clean metal throughout, no corrosion to interfere with electrical flow.
            59 years later, Not so much.
            Cable to manifold, manifold to block, block to starter. All the corroded connections add up to high resistance in the system.
            Since the battery cables are "crispy" toss them and get NEW. Along with bad insulation the wiring is corroded.
            1/0 size cable at least [0]. 2/0 is bigger and better [00]. All 3 cables.
            Quality cables with mechanically crimped terminals. Weatherproof shrink tubing covering the connection between terminal and cable at the battery end. Brass battery terminals are available.
            Think about moving the ground connection to the starter mounting bolt, so the starter gets full voltage.
            South Lompoc Studebaker

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            • #7
              Thanks guys.
              This is what I found....Battery checked out OK with hydrometer. All cells at same level.

              I took the regulator off and opened it. The points for the armature are burnt. Looks like stalactites and stalagmites formed (like in a cave) on the surface of the points when I opened them!! Cant say for sure, but I want to say they were harder to open than the others the first time I opened them. Looks like time to replace.

              On the other items...Looks like it was converted to a negative ground. The ammeter did show a charge when I ran it. Otherwise, I would not have made the 400 mile trip the day I brought her home!! So that is wired correct for a negative ground. It is still a 6V system. The - side of the coil is connected to the distributor which I think is correct for a negative ground.

              Now what still worries me is even if the armature relay was stuck which should explain the constant charge, I don't think that should drain the battery. Right??? After all, that relay is normally closed anyway. There is no trunk or hood light, so that is ruled out. I guess after I replace the regulator, I'll do a bit more troubleshooting.

              I did forget to mention in my first post that my OD did not engage like it normally did. I had to release the gas 3-4 times before it kicked in. Never did that before. Like I mentioned before, too much coincidence for only 6 days that it was parked.

              StudeRich.....The regulator is an Auto-Lite VBE 6101A.

              RadioRoy.....I looked at some pictures on the net for the battery cable. Finally found if I use the key word engine instead of cable or battery, I see the cable. Go figure. What I see is either the front left head bolt where the cable is attached is either a stud, or a bolt that is tapped for a bolt. So the bolt or nut is torqued for the cylinder head, then the cable is attached on top. I don't have anything like this on my engine at all. All are ordinary bolts. Can you or anyone else confirm what I am seeing?

              Also, I still did not find a engine to chassis ground. So I am assuming that mine is missing. A braided type cable connecting from top to bottom of a motor mount should do it...Right?

              Thanks for the help. Even though I am familiar with cars, I am more of an alternator/fuel injection person. I do have carburetor equipped cars, but I am most comfortable with fuel injection. This is also my first generator equipped car. My '49 Chevy has an alternator since the generator was missing when I bought it.

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              • #8
                To check how the ammeter is wired: install the battery, don't turn on the key, but do turn on the headlights. The ammeter should flick noticeably towards "discharge". If that happens, then the ammeter wiring is consistent with the ground polarity of the battery as it is installed.
                Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by alex54 View Post



                  Now what still worries me is even if the armature relay was stuck which should explain the constant charge, I don't think that should drain the battery. Right??? .
                  It could have put a short across the battery when the engine was not turning.
                  RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.


                  10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                  4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                  5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    UPDATE:
                    For those who search to find answers (like me).
                    I replaced the regulator with a NOS AutoLite 6101A. Everything is back to normal. Battery charges when first started, then goes to "0" after a while. The OD engages normally again. She runs real smooth now, but that could be the fresh gas I put in almost 2 weeks ago.

                    I have new battery terminals and 2/0 battery cables that I will put together to replace the old "crispy" ones. I'll go back to positive ground at that time too.

                    If I don't post another update, all is good.

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                    • #11
                      Excellent candidate for a 12 Volt, negative ground conversion. Do that and You'll never look back!!

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