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imitiday
09-22-2006, 03:33 PM
I recall a post regarding Shell's oil used in avanti's.
Was it the 5w40 synthetic.It seems the Rotella brand is
more suited for diesel engines?

65cruiser
09-22-2006, 03:43 PM
The Rotella I use in my Studebaker IS for diesel engines. It's best suited for older engines. There's a good discussion here:

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/sdc_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2230&SearchTerms=rotella


quote:Originally posted by imitiday

I recall a post regarding Shell's oil used in avanti's.
Was it the 5w40 synthetic.It seems the Rotella brand is
more suited for diesel engines?


________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

Scott
09-22-2006, 03:52 PM
I've put the 15/40 wieght Rotella in my '62 hawk and in my 1966 Cruiser. I don't recall it being rated for diesels, but it might be.

I read a number of threads about oil and heard enough good things about the Shell Rotella I decided to try it. I've also read good things about it in air-cooled VW engines, so I'll probably use it in my 73 bug, too.

Yeah, I admit it. I had to jump the Studebaker ship for the winter because I didn't want snow and stuff coming through the few holes I have in the floor of my '66. The Beetle is nice and rust free (so far). although I'd better get the heating ductwork hooked up soon!

lube_sales
09-22-2006, 05:54 PM
Shell's Rotella brand oils are formulated for Diesels it has been about 10 - 15 years since automotive oils could be used in diesels for warrenty purposes. However diesel engines oils can still be used in automtive applications. The only caution is diesel engine oils contain a higher ash level then the automotive oils do and this can cause in severe applications coking of valves and piston/ring areas. I have both a Stude 289 and a Stude with a 283 and use a Synt 10w30 with a Hydrotreated base stock, such as Chevron - Pennzoil - Petro-Canada. In my mind this is the best application for these vintage engines and high temp summer driving .

4austin
09-22-2006, 06:39 PM
Scott, I'm not anexpert but if you are concerned wth snow then I would have to believe that the climate you live in would be better suited, in the winter, to a lower viscosity oil than would be provided by the 15W 40.

47 M5, Kentucky

N8N
09-22-2006, 07:20 PM
I like the Rotella because a) it's a good viscosity for older engines and b) it contains both anti-wear additives and very high levels of detergents, therefore it will protect the engine better than a gasoline-engine-only oil, and it will also clean out all the old sludge inside the engine. It really works; I've run it in two old Stude engines that had a decent amount of sludge buildup and after a couple changes you could see the difference under the valve covers, valley pan, etc.

I probably wouldn't use the synthetic unless it was in a freshly rebuilt or re-gasketed engine; Studes tend to leak enough that it might not be cost effective. I do run either Rotella or Delo synthetic in the Porsche and probably will switch to it in the '55 after it is broken in.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Scott
09-22-2006, 08:00 PM
Could be, 4Austin. I read reports from some people suggesting what you're saying, and others that don't. I thought I read that even in my climate 15/40 should be OK all year. I guess I could try it and see for myself, though. It seems every person has at least 2 or 3 opinions about which oil is best!

4austin
09-22-2006, 08:03 PM
N8N makes sense, what viscosities do you run.

47 M5, Kentucky

4austin
09-22-2006, 08:13 PM
Scott the only reason I mention the viscosity/temp issue is that if you are not heated it could take a good while for the oil to reach the valve lifters and other extremities and small orifices. I have actually read that in extremes lubrication times may exceed 10 minutes. Sounds unbelievable but sources were reliable. I will also use Rotella for reasons stated by N8N. But I'll be cautious regarding viscosity. Noria.com has information on selection of engine oils.

47 M5, Kentucky

r1lark
09-22-2006, 08:47 PM
I read somewhere recently (Stude NG?) that Shell has reduced several of the elements/additives in the Rotella oil that are key for reducing wear in older cars.

Does anyone have more details on this?

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

rockne10
09-22-2006, 10:09 PM
In central Pa we've had temps below zero for weeks at a time and snow accumulations up to 124 inches. I've run nothing but Rotella in all my vehicles for years.

Shell is reformulating Dieselall (Rotella 15-40) to satisfy the needs of the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel engine and exhaust systems required after January 1, 2007. It will be a little more expensive but is compatible with all older vehicles. The reverse is not true. ULSD engines after January should not use prior formulations.

A small portion of my job includes managing a fleet of 24 Class 6 diesels.

I have all that information at work, with the details unmemorized, as I sit at home, finishing my second barley-pop and starting a week off work to advance the restoration of my 53 Coupe.

I plan on sticking with Rotella in my fleet and in my Studebakers.


Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
33 Rockne 10
51 Commander Starlight
53 Commander Starlight
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/51x2.jpg
previously: 63 Cruiser, 62 Regal VI, 60 VI convertible, 50 LandCruiser

lube_sales
09-24-2006, 02:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by N8N

I like the Rotella because a) it's a good viscosity for older engines and b) it contains both anti-wear additives and very high levels of detergents, therefore it will protect the engine better than a gasoline-engine-only oil, and it will also clean out all the old sludge inside the engine. It really works; I've run it in two old Stude engines that had a decent amount of sludge buildup and after a couple changes you could see the difference under the valve covers, valley pan, etc.

I probably wouldn't use the synthetic unless it was in a freshly rebuilt or re-gasketed engine; Studes tend to leak enough that it might not be cost effective. I do run either Rotella or Delo synthetic in the Porsche and probably will switch to it in the '55 after it is broken in.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

lube_sales
09-24-2006, 02:38 PM
The old problems with seal leaks has been long addressed by the oil companies they use Esters as a seal swell. I still believe that an automotive oil is better for automotive engines, Diesel enginge oils have additives not needed for gas applications. Synthetics can be used for break in without a problem, the old way of thinking that you can not break in an engine on synthics is false and put out by the Power-up and Amzoil people to promote false product quality. s for the viscosity if you are useing exsessive amounts of oil with a quailty 10w30 you are in need of an engine refresher, oils should not be used to mask mechanical problems.







quote:Originally posted by N8N

I like the Rotella because a) it's a good viscosity for older engines and b) it contains both anti-wear additives and very high levels of detergents, therefore it will protect the engine better than a gasoline-engine-only oil, and it will also clean out all the old sludge inside the engine. It really works; I've run it in two old Stude engines that had a decent amount of sludge buildup and after a couple changes you could see the difference under the valve covers, valley pan, etc.

I probably wouldn't use the synthetic unless it was in a freshly rebuilt or re-gasketed engine; Studes tend to leak enough that it might not be cost effective. I do run either Rotella or Delo synthetic in the Porsche and probably will switch to it in the '55 after it is broken in.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

John Kirchhoff
09-24-2006, 10:04 PM
For folks out there that may not know, if you look on the back of the oil can, you'll see a round circle with an API (American Petroleum Institute) letter rating. Ratings are based upon the severity of engine use. Ratings for gasoline engines start with an "S" and diesel engines start with a "C". Currently produced oils rated "SF-SG" are the highest duty rating available for gas engines. Some SG oils are only gasoline rated while others are dual rated for both types of engines and they'll say something like "SF,SG,CC". Such an oil is pretty good stuff and is suitable for tubrocharged gas engines and for naturally aspirated diesels (CC). A CD oil is for turbocharged diesels and has very high shear strength. An engine running 16-20:1 compression ratio combined with 10 pounds of boost puts very high loads on rod and main bearings. Go to some discount store and look at their ultra cheap oils and you'll see a rating something like SB or SC. Thirty years ago that was top notch stuff but it doesn't get the job done nowdays because engines put out more hp per cubic inch increasing component loadings. I believe it's the better oils that now make 200,000 miles without an overhaul possible. No telling how many miles a Stude engine could have turned over if todays oils had been available back then.

DilloCrafter
09-25-2006, 03:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by lube_sales
Synthetics can be used for break in without a problem, the old way of thinking that you can not break in an engine on synthics is false and put out by the Power-up and Amzoil people to promote false product quality.
I'm confused. Why would Amsoil put out information that you can't break in an engine on synthetics?

http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas

John Kirchhoff
09-25-2006, 10:47 PM
I don't know about the Amzoil folks, but the reasoning behind synthetics not being good for break in stems from thinking they are TOO slick. Sure, slick is good for lifters and rod bearings, but for piston rings to properly break in, there has to be some metal on metal scrubbing to polish up the cylinder walls. If not, you'll never get a good seal between the ring and the cylinder wall. At leaast that's what the old timers thought and I guess used to be true. However, I overhauled a Ford Tempo engine with 216,000 miles and there were still faint hone marks at the top and bottom of the cylinders. The middle of the bores were polished slick and shiny, but that's no doubt due to the side thrust exerted by the piston as the crank throw is perpendicular to the motion of the piston. But anyway, it still had good compression and didn't use excessive amounts of oil (I overhauled it because the rod bearings where showing copper). When it comes to getting the rings to seat, it's more important to periodically use heavy throttle. The increased cylinder pressures will drive the rings against the cylinder wall. If you baby the engine for too long after installing new rings there's the chance you'll never get a good seal. I've overhauled plenty of diesel engines in the middle of farming season and there was no such thing as having time to take it easy for a while. It was literaly tighten down the last bolt, wash my hands, get a drink and back to the field at full load. I've never once had any problem from such treatment.

imitiday
09-26-2006, 05:18 PM
FWIW. received E from Shell rep.His recommendation for the R2
is their 10w30.I have a dealer nearby,price for case of 12 is $32
price for the syn.6pack is $27.

Sonny
09-26-2006, 10:22 PM
quote:Originally posted by lube_sales

Shell's Rotella brand oils are formulated for Diesels it has been about 10 - 15 years since automotive oils could be used in diesels for warrenty purposes. However diesel engines oils can still be used in automtive applications. The only caution is diesel engine oils contain a higher ash level then the automotive oils do and this can cause in severe applications coking of valves and piston/ring areas. I have both a Stude 289 and a Stude with a 283 and use a Synt 10w30 with a Hydrotreated base stock, such as Chevron - Pennzoil - Petro-Canada. In my mind this is the best application for these vintage engines and high temp summer driving .


We had a chat about the stuff that's gonna be missing from Rotella soon at the racing forums. http://racingstudebakers.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=447&highlight=oil. I've heard that Rotella will continue to produce the same mix of current oil for at least another 10 - 20 years. It's needed to service the millions of early diesels already on the roads, (makes good sense to me). I sure hope they continue to make the "good ol' stuff", 'cause I use it in everything from my garden tractor and gas weed whacker to the three Ford diesels I own. Oh, I use straight 30 weight Rotella all year round and change it religiously. No multi-viscosity oils for me because my Fords prefer the straight weights.

I'm not sure what you mean by "ash" in diesel oil, (you may be referring to the soot that a diesel engine produces and the oil is formulated to keep suspended until the filter can get it), but whatever the amount, I believe it to be almost a null consideration. Diesel oils provide so many benefits for gasoline engines, not using them, especially Rotella, in our Studebakers, makes no sense at all. Comp Cams swears by Rotella in vintage engines. Rarely, VERY rarely, does a mfgr. of ANY stripe stick their neck out and recommend another product, but it almost looks like Comp Cams is on a campaign to get people to use Rotella!

I dunno, I love the stuff and I'm SURE that Comp Cams has done a LOT of research to be able to stick their neck out like that. Count me in the "Rotella for lunch bunch". :D;)


Sonny
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