Speed cost money. How fast can you afford to go?

[PackardV8]

A Stude owner not active on this forum recently called me about building a Studebaker V8 racing engine for him. He's gotten the bug to run on some of the standing mile and open road races. "I want it done right, to hold together for several races and make enough horsepower to run at least 150 MPH. How much is it going to cost?"

I started adding it up and before long, he knew he had seriously underestimated how much to get serious about racing. When we got past $10,000 and still counting, he said he'd need to think about it some more.

Core 289" engine - $350
Professionally ported heads with new custom valves, springs, guides - $2000
Custom aluminum intake manifold - $500
Custom roller cam - $500
Iskenderian roller lifters - $500
Custom Smith Bros pushrods - $200
Aluminum timing gear - $100
Forged Venolia pistons - $800
Forged Howards rods - $800
Crankshaft ground, polished, nitride - $350
Total Seal rings - $125
Clevite 77 main, rod, cam bearings - $300
R1 damper - $125
Paxton supercharger, pulleys and brackets - $1500
Custom headers - $750
Engine balance - $150
Gasket set - $125
Carburetor - $350
Fidanza aluminum flywheel - $400
Centerforce clutch and pressure plate - $350
Rebuilt T10 4-speed and Hurst shifter - $750
Cleaning, bore, hone, line hone, deck and precision assembly - $2000

Can a Studebaker V8 performance engine be built for less? Of course; it just won't be the best we know how to do with the best parts we can buy, make the most horsepower possible while living to race another day.

I'm going to ask a couple of the guys over on the Racing Studebaker site what I've forgotten to list and what they've done differently. This engine doesn't have 4-bolt mains or raised port heads. However, if they're like me, they don't want to keep records on how much their personal projects cost, much less share that on the internet.

jack vines

[DEEPNHOCK]

A few comments on your list (that my checkbook told me about)
Jeff

Core 289" engine - $350
Professionally ported heads with new custom valves, springs, guides - $2000I would add a grand to this figure.
Custom aluminum intake manifold - $500 Starting at $500... and up.
Custom roller cam - $500
Iskenderian roller lifters - $500 I would suggest Crane Hyd roller lifters (unless Isky now makes a hyd roller lifter)
Custom Smith Bros pushrods - $200
Aluminum timing gear - $100 I think they are more than this today.
Forged Venolia pistons - $800
Forged Howards rods - $800 Not Available Any More (add $600+ to your listed price)
Crankshaft ground, polished, nitride - $350
Total Seal rings - $125
Clevite 77 main, rod, cam bearings - $300 Where can you get Clevite77 (Mahle) bearings!!?? Cite your source, please!
R1 damper - $125
Paxton supercharger, pulleys and brackets - $1500 Better raise your price a grand or so...
Custom headers - $750
Engine balance - $150
Gasket set - $125
Carburetor - $350
Fidanza aluminum flywheel - $400
Centerforce clutch and pressure plate - $350
Rebuilt T10 4-speed and Hurst shifter - $750
Cleaning, bore, hone, line hone, deck and precision assembly - $2000

[PackardV8]

Thanks, Jeff. Until one buys the part at today's cost, it's an estimate.

As to the Clevite bearings, you're correct in that they are NLA. The price I gave him was for SBC rod bearings, because the Howard rods are sized for them. The mains (and the Howards rods) are an old stock set I have on the shelf.

Hydraulic roller lifters in a race engine? I wouldn't do it anyway, but I've also never had a Stude hydraulic roller cam.

Bottom line - thanks for the confirmation I underestimated the cost of the build. He'd have been getting a deal.

jack vines

[DEEPNHOCK]

I'd run a hydraulic roller lifter in a heartbeat.
The newer ones are designed to run well within the 'Stude' engine operating envelope.
And the camshaft will thank you.
Having the roller be able to skip off the lobe is hard on the cam.
I have a new set of Comp manual roller lifters that will be run in the first engine in 'The Black Car'...
But that's just because I have them.
The next engine will get hydraulic roller lifters.
I have the Mahle guys doing a nationwide search for me for NOS Clevite77 bearings out of engine shops and suppliers.
We'll see what comes up, and what the $$ is going to look like.
Jeff

(The object of my affection...taken yesterday as it is being assembled)

Thanks, Jeff. Until one buys the part at today's cost, it's an estimate.

As to the Clevite bearings, you're correct in that they are NLA. The price I gave him was for SBC rod bearings, because the Howard rods are sized for them. The mains (and the Howards rods) are an old stock set I have on the shelf.

Hydraulic roller lifters in a race engine? I wouldn't do it anyway, but I've also never had a Stude hydraulic roller cam.

Bottom line - thanks for the confirmation I underestimated the cost of the build. He'd have been getting a deal.

jack vines

[63t-cab]

Jack, how much horse power would a build like this produce at the engine ?

A Stude owner not active on this forum recently called me about building a Studebaker V8 racing engine for him. He's gotten the bug to run on some of the standing mile and open road races. "I want it done right, to hold together for several races and make enough horsepower to run at least 150 MPH. How much is it going to cost?"

I started adding it up and before long, he knew he had seriously underestimated how much to get serious about racing. When we got past $10,000 and still counting, he said he'd need to think about it some more.

Core 289" engine - $350
Professionally ported heads with new custom valves, springs, guides - $2000
Custom aluminum intake manifold - $500
Custom roller cam - $500
Iskenderian roller lifters - $500
Custom Smith Bros pushrods - $200
Aluminum timing gear - $100
Forged Venolia pistons - $800
Forged Howards rods - $800
Crankshaft ground, polished, nitride - $350
Total Seal rings - $125
Clevite 77 main, rod, cam bearings - $300
R1 damper - $125
Paxton supercharger, pulleys and brackets - $1500
Custom headers - $750
Engine balance - $150
Gasket set - $125
Carburetor - $350
Fidanza aluminum flywheel - $400
Centerforce clutch and pressure plate - $350
Rebuilt T10 4-speed and Hurst shifter - $750
Cleaning, bore, hone, line hone, deck and precision assembly - $2000

Can a Studebaker V8 performance engine be built for less? Of course; it just won't be the best we know how to do with the best parts we can buy, make the most horsepower possible while living to race another day.

I'm going to ask a couple of the guys over on the Racing Studebaker site what I've forgotten to list and what they've done differently. This engine doesn't have 4-bolt mains or raised port heads. However, if they're like me, they don't want to keep records on how much their personal projects cost, much less share that on the internet.

jack vines

[PackardV8]

When you get ready to order the hydraulic roller cam, keep us in the loop over on Racing Studebakers. Money will buy anything, but I haven't found anyone who wants to do just one Stude hydraulic roller cam. Maybe if we ordered a few together, it will make them more affordable.

As an aside, I've got three NOS solid roller cams for Packard V8s. According to the specs, they'll even be streetable in the 427" I'm building.

Having the roller be able to skip off the lobe is hard on the cam.

Like you, I worried about the stories of street roller cams eating lifter needles. No manufacturer will give a guarantee, but the usually reliable sources I've discussed it with say the problems mostly come from BBC guys trying to run the Xtreme cams and springs on the street. The older less intensive profiles with lower lift we'd be running in Studes shouldn't cause a solid lifter problem. (Of course, it's not their money at stake!)

jack vines

[DEEPNHOCK]

Good point(s), Jack
Jeff

[PackardV8]

Jack, how much horse power would a build like this produce at the engine ?

Three factors determine the horsepower goals; head flow, cam timing and durability required:

1. Does it have to be semi-streetable? If so for how many miles a year and how much idling? Power brakes? Rebuild the Paxton every year if it is raced. Then 450-500 hp. Jim Lange built one like this for Barlow Soper's Avanti 10-15 years ago.

2. Full race, open exhaust, no idle, E85 fuel, Novi/Vortec/Procharger; then maybe 600-650 hp.

3. Jim Lange has probably gotten brief spurts of 1000hp from his twin turbo, but it is a "kid's don't try this at home." With the best professional build, maintenance and tuning, he's blown it a few times.

jack vines

[JimC]

How fast can I afford to go? Well, I can push a car pretty quickly, especially on a slight downhill slope.

[63t-cab]

Jack, #1 is about what I was after and it makes Me QUOTE=PackardV8;789622]Three factors determine the horsepower goals; head flow, cam timing and durability required:

1. Does it have to be semi-streetable? If so for how many miles a year and how much idling? Power brakes? Rebuild the Paxton every year if it is raced. Then 450-500 hp. Jim Lange built one like this for Barlow Soper's Avanti 10-15 years ago.

2. Full race, open exhaust, no idle, E85 fuel, Novi/Vortec/Procharger; then maybe 600-650 hp.

3. Jim Lange has probably gotten brief spurts of 1000hp from his twin turbo, but it is a "kid's don't try this at home." With the best professional build, maintenance and tuning, he's blown it a few times.

jack vines[/QUOTE]

[63t-cab]

Jim, you forgot the "and a good tail wind behind Me"

How fast can I afford to go? Well, I can push a car pretty quickly, especially on a slight downhill slope.

[8E45E]

Bugatti Veyron Super Sport.

From Car & Driver http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...r-sport-review

[sals54]

And yet we forget that guys like Tom Covington and others have run 10 and 11 sec Qtr mile times without spending a tenth of whats being proposed. I cant believe that his engine could not easily be transformed into a Mile Racer.
In fact I still have a twin turbo setup for a 289 Stude engine. Its sitting in my garage waiting for the right project. Total cost of fabrication and parts is about $500. I'll bet I could get my Coupe up to 150, or pretty dang close, without breaking the bank. And I could use the leftover $9000 to buy a couple of spare blocks in case one grenades.

[LeoH]

I'm just curious, since the original request was a near 'blue sky' one, any particular reason you chose a Paxton supercharger? Since you're not staying 'stock' with your engine build. Aren't there newer higher performing products? I don't know, just asking.

Following that performance add-on, why not a super/turbo charger package or Sals twin turbo route?

[bezhawk]

I'm just curious, since the original request was a near 'blue sky' one, any particular reason you chose a Paxton supercharger? Since you're not staying 'stock' with your engine build. Aren't there newer higher performing products? I don't know, just asking.

Following that performance add-on, why not a super/turbo charger package or Sals twin turbo route?

A Novi, Procharger, or Vortech is/are a newer designed centrifugal supercharger capable of 20lbs of boost in some cases. NOT a ball drive Paxton in any way shape or form!