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View Full Version : Followup on 5E7 on Ebay in Robesonia, PA



62champ
10-03-2013, 05:52 PM
Since my 7E7 has not had a good road trip over 20 miles in many month, I decided to take a drive over to Robesonia to have a look. Lots of back roads in this part of the world so the dog and I loaded up and headed out at @9:30 through the Pennsylvania countryside...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/60-Studebaker-Champ-Great-Condition-Road-Ready-3-Tree-Vintage-No-Reserve-/251350290247?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a85a50f47

When I pulled into the dealers lot (this is a Chrysler dealer), I noticed half of the repair bays are facing the road/parking lot. In the far bay, the Champ was up on the alignment rack because the young man responsible for the truck (Andy Nocera) was trying to find out what rear end ratio it had. When I walked up, another @30 year old salesman came out of the building and exclaimed, "the number of Studebaker trucks I have seen in my life has just doubled..." and he proceeded to have a look at my truck.

Andy stated the truck was part of a multi-vehicle trade in a couple months back. From the previous owner they found out he bought it around five years ago from somewhere in New England. Previous owner only got rid of it because he wanted a truck that he would not be afraid to put a load in. Andy (@30 years old himself) says he has learned two thing since being given the responsibility of selling the truck: how to drive a 3 speed on the column and how to open a Studebaker hood.

Andy said they had it out in front for a short while, but it has spent most of its time in the back of the used car lot. They put it into a local auto trader magazine and took it to a local car show, but he says there has really not been much traffic to look at it. He said there was a local Studebaker owner who offered the dealership $3500, but that was well below what they had in it. They decided to put it on E-bay just to get more exposure and are willing to take what ever the E-bay market says it is worth.

Obviously from the pictures it is clear the truck was refurbished at some point in the past. I am not a professional auto evaluator so this is simply going from my experience being around Studebakers all my life and driving/owning them for 20 years.

Exterior - Paint and body work, for the most part, looks pretty good. The worst spot is the rear of the bed on the driver's side that is in the photos on E-bay. It is clear that the fenders in the rear needed some work and the bottom of the front fenders show evidence of some fill. Body is not wavy and really did not see any places where the paint was bad. Finish is not perfect, but it is not trying to be Pebble Beach... Grill, air intake grills, headlight rings have pits but they are presentable. Fender trim is not correct for 1960 (unique to that year only), but the 1962-64 trim looks good with the usual dimples at the rear. The bed has a rubber mat and it is clear it has had some weight put in it - you can clearly see where the cross braces are located...

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3474_zpse4a9a4b5.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3480_zps8dd78c1b.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3481_zps49c135a8.jpg


Interior - While it might not be 100% accurate, it seems like this truck was well taken car of the majority of its life because of the interior's condition. The dash pad, headliner, and door panels are original to the truck. The threads are worn out of the dash cover, the headliner has some thread breakage, and, sadly, someone painted over the original door panels, but they all appear original. The wiring harness is not butchered up and the instrument had been changed at some point because they are in good condition, however, the fuel/heat gauge is not lined up with the glass so someone might have replaced the chrome rings at some point. The seat was recovered and they put in a little extra cushion in the lean back - puts you a bit closer to steering wheel, but did not try to push the seat back - looked like it was probably as far as it would go. Would not be too comfortable for anyone who might be a little larger - sorry...

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3478_zpsd031cb49.jpg

Drive line I did not get the number off the motor, but if the condition of the rest of the truck indicated a pampered life, the motor could very well be the original. It started with the flip of the key and did not have any hesitation or miss. (Keep in mind it has just been running, so not sure what it would be like sitting for a week or so) RPMs went up and down without any issues but there is a little hanging up with the linkage because it wanted to race until you tapped the pedal. Transmission shifts without problems even though the gear shift is a little loose in the column and at some point it was broken off and repaired - it is at a strange angle. Although it would have to be taken down to find out, but it feels like it has a competition pressure plate - after a few months of driving, your left leg would be noticeably larger from all the workout you would be getting.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3470_zps09700d7d.jpg

While the tranny is 3sp/OD, the OD is currently not working. Andy was curious as to how it worked, and I gave him the verbal explanation. When we went for a drive, it was simply free-wheeling. I pulled out the OD handle and told him that might be the best thing to do since the OD is not working. The clutch linkage really needs adjustment because it does not catch until right at the top of the travel. They had the truck in the air when I arrived and we were looking for the ratio tag on the rear end - nothing there. On the cover was written "3.73". Driving it with the OD not working indicated that could be true - my truck has a 4.27 and you could tell the difference. At some point there was a rear end and/or springs change - brake lines are newer and U-bolts on passenger side are longer than original.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3467_zps6ce902f4.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3473_zpsf280dec4.jpg

Truck went down the road straight and smooth without any vibration or strange noises. Clearly it still has the original brakes, pulled some (probably from lack of use) and the pedal was good and high. Accelerated well and everything seems to operate like it was supposed to. The Amp light was not working on the dash but that could simply be a bulb. Like I said earlier, the linkage wanted to stick and you had to tap the pedal to get it back down to idle. We only traveled about two miles total but heat gauge never went over half.

Underside The dealer photos shows a floorboard patch on the passenger side and the same is true for the driver's side. Looks like it was screwed to the floor but these look like the only floor repairs.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3472_zps5ad93f4d.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3469_zpsee93f384.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3475_zps3c8a96a9.jpg

Rocker panels looked good. Bed floor did not have any rust out, and the worst surface rust under the truck was behind the rear-end on the frame/bumper brackets. Could not see any frame rust out anywhere. Bottom of the door seemed to be in good shape as well.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3477_zps7d9d8bc8.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3476_zps90eb37a4.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3479_zps7c40f9c4.jpg

Even the bottom of the gas tank was in decent shape.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/Robesonia%205E7/IMG_3468_zpsa103b9b2.jpg

Overall I would say it is a nice truck. I want to make sure that everyone understands that this is simply my observations and only come from my general knowledge of being around Studebakers and trucks for 20 years. I know no one at this dealership and actually have never been to that part of Berks county before.

When I drove the truck I actually got a bit of a lump in my throat. It is exact year, model, and color of truck my Uncle restored in 1992, and in that truck we went to our first Studebaker meeting that same year. He has been gone now for over ten years and the 7E7 I drive was also his work, so his legacy spans much further than he could have ever imagined.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/other/2001%20Texas/MVC-001S2.jpg

2R5
10-03-2013, 06:17 PM
Very good evaluation of this truck Jim , heck that's better than most ebay listings <g> Someone is going to get a decent truck to driver of restore . I know if I was after a Champ I'd be all over that one for sure. You mentioned that the clutch was a hard pedal ....funny mine was like that when I bought it , since thaen I figured out why and its a real easy fix....they came that way right from the factory !

LarkTruck
10-03-2013, 06:35 PM
Thanks for the report Patrick, and thanks for saving me a trip to Robesonia. That dealership used to be L&B Dodge, home of the "White Hat Boys". But now it is part of the Savage Auto Group. That is a sweet little Champ, swb, V-8, 3spd O.D. nuff said. If I didn't already have my 62 Champ patiently waiting for my attention I'd be hittin the bid button.
Let the auction market weed out the BS'rs from the serious buyers.;)
Jim

BobPalma
10-03-2013, 06:47 PM
Excellent report. Nothing to apologize for. Good, detailed photos. Thanks. :!: BP

2R5
10-03-2013, 06:54 PM
Yes that was so good the dealer should give you a commission on the sale, I'm sure you earned them more for that truck.

Corvanti
10-03-2013, 08:11 PM
here's the ebay ad for those that missed it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/60-Studebaker-Champ-Great-Condition-Road-Ready-3-Tree-Vintage-No-Reserve-/251350290247?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a85a50f47

currently at $2,800 with no reserve...:)

jclary
10-03-2013, 08:30 PM
Thanks for the report. Also, you made excellent pictures. I don't know what bid will take it...but it looks to me that someone will be buying a truck full of fun!

Warren Webb
10-03-2013, 11:20 PM
Somebody is going to get a great buy there. The only things I can add are the non-original clutch & brake pedal pads, nice aftermarket am/fm cassette radio, nice non original carpet & seat upholstery with plain vinyl covered door panels, padded well unlike the originals. I would be tempted even on the other side of the country. I'm sure our Aussie friends would love to have this as a ride added to the others there. Nice report there Champ!!

Commander Eddie
10-04-2013, 08:52 AM
I saw this on Ebay and saved it to my watch list so I could see what it sold for. It is the same color as my '61 Champ and has the same engine and transmission. Now, if I could only convince my wife that I need 2 of them.

62champ
10-04-2013, 09:06 AM
Now, if I could only convince my wife that I need 2 of them.

Could simply phrase it as being much easier having a duplicate ready to drive while the original is down for repairs, needing a rest, etc., etc...

Commander Eddie
10-04-2013, 09:23 AM
Could simply phrase it as being much easier having a duplicate ready to drive while the original is down for repairs, needing a rest, etc., etc...

I like the way you think. :!:

jackb
10-06-2013, 07:44 AM
I was thinking very seriously of pursuing this truck, but; my 2 big concerns are the floor repair and how they will eventually require repair and re-working to keep the doors aligned, and the front fender rust. A new paint job looks fine, but can hide lots of stuff.....and of course buying something from afar is a risk. Please: no criticism or negative comment to the fair and personal review of a friendly Stude advisor.......gonna watch the auction......

62champ
10-06-2013, 08:32 AM
Jack - if you make the jump I will help out where I can. If you need a place to keep the truck for a time, I have plenty of garage space with my wife having moved on to a new job in Kentucky. Our place is for sale but the way things have looked since we went on the market - I could still be here by the time York comes around again...

I have a good friend who stores a Studebaker or two around here from time to time. I refuse any kind of monetary payment - taking them out for time to time for a drive in the country is all the payment I need ;)

jackb
10-06-2013, 08:44 PM
I think I can speak for most here (again) on the help you've provided in presenting this truck. It sure looks good......however, having owned a 62' Champ with the same type of flat sheetmetal repair on the floor exactly where the cab mounts are located brings back not so fond memories. The flat stock repair will only allow for good door closure for a while. I can't see how the mounts are situated now, if they are there, but I do believe the doors will sag in time. In my case, I drove the truck almost daily and it didn't take too long to try and adjust the doors. I believe the better correction is to weld in some supported (and maybe stamped) stock that will hold up to what was a very flimsy cab mounting project to begin with. That and some fresh rubber biscuits, maybe more forgiving than front engine mounts...I'm not a bodyman. Last time I looked, the auction was north of $4K......even right there I pause for the reasons noted above......And I'd also would hope that the front fenders are as solid as they look in the pics...maybe replacements....maybe flash work with fresh paint to sell......no intention of downing the truck or those bidding on it...just my thoughts.....

62champ
10-06-2013, 09:03 PM
When my Uncle worked the '62 I currently have, he had the same issue - body mounting spot in the corners of the cab floor where all the moisture runs to. He ended up using the body supports on the cowl that were from the Lark - rubber support and bolted it directly to the frame. When I asked him why Studebaker didn't do the same thing, he said he believed they might have originally in the test mule '60s and discovered it would not work. Load a truck with 1000 lbs in the bed and go over some pretty irregular ground you are going to get a lot of frame flex - the front and rear mounts are so close together they could not have a lot of motion without them starting to cause problems - so move them as far apart as possible.

Want the truck in question to find a good home - with someone like yourself we could at least get the occasional update on how it is doing.

jackb
10-07-2013, 06:25 AM
bidding now looks to be advantaged by a "flipper"......1 more day......!