Engine: Engine Swap Question

[putecht421]

New member here, I have a 53 6 cylinder champ that upon further inspection, needs to come out and be rebuilt. I happen to have a 302/AOD that I pulled from my 68 Cougar when I went with a modular V8 in it. I am wondering before I dive too far into it, has anyone swapped a SBF in with the stock suspension in one of these cars? I am no stranger to some fab work, but I am trying to avoid sinking thousands of hours/dollars in this project. Any pictures/information would be wonderful!

[Swifster]

I can't answer your question relating to the 302. I can say the 'bolt-in' is the SBC. Studebaker used SBC's in '65-'66.

[putecht421]

Thanks for the reply, but I just can't put myself to use a SBC.

[brngarage]

I have a friend who has a '51 Champion with a small block (289) Ford in it, but it is using a C4 transmission. It was installed prior to his purchase of the car and the car also has a front "clip" from an AMC (I believe a Pacer) so the installation is very different from your plans. If it will help you at all (as far as space around the engine, etc.) I can get pictures for you. Please email me at brngarage@gmail.com.

[sweetolbob]

Thanks for the reply, but I just can't put myself to use a SBC.

Use a picture/dimensions of an SBC a guidance. The best thing the SBC's have is a rear mount oil pump so the pan is very thin in front. That's necessary to clear the front cross member. I know Ford did some oil pans like the SBC so it should work if it has that. Also you won't need to worry about the rear mount distributor.

No matter your opinion of SBC's, use their dimensions as guidance.

I don't care if you stick A DD-15 diesel in one as long as they are back on the road.

And welcome to our community, keep askin' and we'll keep answering, and sometimes we'll be correct.

Bob

[putecht421]

I appreciate the responses from everyone. I will do some more research on the SBC swap for guidance. I will keep pictures/updates coming as the job progresses. I am a long time Ford builder and a first time Studebaker owner. The car was left to me by my grandfather, I would like to get the car back on the road, but with the modern luxury of EFI, Overdrive and A/C. What are the best clip options for these cars if I did decide to go that route?

[Dick Steinkamp]

Shoot, they put hemis in these things, so a SBF is going to fit...one way or another. .

If you've done a swap, you know there are going to be 42 more "gotchas" than you anticipate. As long as you are a fairly good engineer and fabricator, they can all be overcome.

No swap is easy. I'd argue that a SBC swap is NOT a bolt in. It is the easiest swap into a 63-64 Lark, but even if you have a complete 65-66 parts car (that used the Chevy V8) you still have a lot of engineering and fabrication to attend to. For starters, you probably won't be using the Stude transmission and unique bell housing, so the center crossmember, transmission linkage (TV and shift), drive shaft, all have to be fabricated. Plenty of other "gotchas" (ask me how I know ). A Chevy swap into a C/K body is essentially starting from scratch. There are a few suppliers with front motor mounts out there, but that's the only thing that is going to "bolt in" and that's a very small part of the overall swap.

I assume your Champion is a C or K body (coupe or hardtop)?

The Ford engine is 2" longer than a Chevy http://www.carnut.com/specs/engdim.html so that will make things a little tougher, and as Bob said, you'll need to deal with the front sump on most SBFs.

I don't recall ever seeing a SBF in a Stude, but I'm sure they are out there. It would be great if you can find someone who has done it, but if not just plan plan plan to try to cut those 42 gotchas down to 27 or so.

[putecht421]

I understand that a Studebaker engine CAN be built to be as reliable as a brand X engine. The champ 6 is not going to cut it for what I want to do. My personal opinion is that it is no fun to drive with the 6. I don't intend to go out racing the car, but keeping up with traffic at 75mph would be nice. That being said, if I am pulling the 6 anyways, I don't want to go searching for a used Studebaker V8, that I will want to rebuild before installing it, then having to update it, when I have a 302, that I built, sitting on an engine stand collecting dust. I was mainly just trying to see if there was any gearbox, firewall or radiator issues I may run across as well as transmission tunnel modifications. I don't want to hack the body up on my car if I can avoid it.

[Dick Steinkamp]

A couple of other things that you've probably already thought of, but I'll throw them out anyway.

The 6 cylinder rear end won't put up with the SBF horsepower. Studes used a rather narrow rear end. There are ones out there that will come close (S10, Ranger?). You could also just bolt in a Stude Dana 44 V8 rear end. The downside of the Stude Dana 44 is that they had tapered (keyed) axles up until 65-66 when the change was made to flanged. You can also have a custom Ford 8 or 9" made.

Also, the 53 6 cylinder brakes did not stop well in 53 and will do even worse at today's speeds in today's traffic. When you switch rear ends, you will be getting some modern rear brakes. For the front, either 54 and up V8 Stude brakes, or a disc conversion from Jim Turner.

[putecht421]

I actually have the disc brakes for the front sitting in the trunk, waiting for the winter so I can start this project. I was thinking of having an 8.8 narrowed with disc brakes for the rear, but modern drums would be just fine.

[PackardV8]

FWIW, the SBF, with the available but uncommon front sump pan, will fit; indeed, it will look lost down in the Stude engine compartment. The good news is it weighs about the same as the Champion, so no front suspension mods are required.

Personally, I'd add new heavy duty shocks, a front bar from an '80s GM mid-size and rear sway bar from a Ford Explorer; alternately, Dave Thibault sells new HD bars which work well.

As previously mentioned, upgrade the brakes first, then the rear axle. The SBF isn't a high-torque engine, so the dirt-common Stude V8 Dana 44 with Twin Traction should hold up just fine. BTW, the later finned rear brakes on the V8 axle work fine with the front disc brake conversion.

jack vines

[Alan]

Going to have to use a Bronco oil pan and pick up tube. Build new block mounts. Use Lark type bolt to frame mounts, using the lower mount holes. and build a rear cross member. Had a 289 in a 53K that ran 12.75 with a 4 speed.

[wittsend]

As noted the front pan sump is an issue. From what I have seen of the rear sump SBF is that it still has a dip in the front of the pan (see image). That is probably because of the oil pump. So, while you can get a rear sump SBF pan, getting the needed clearance over the crossmember/steering (does the 53 Champ have the center bellcrank on the crossmember???) may be an issue.

[Captain Billy]

Quote from putecht421..."I actually have the disc brakes for the front sitting in the trunk, waiting for the winter so I can start this project. I was thinking of having an 8.8 narrowed with disc brakes for the rear, but modern drums would be just fine."
They have winter in Texas???

[putecht421]

Quote from putecht421..."I actually have the disc brakes for the front sitting in the trunk, waiting for the winter so I can start this project. I was thinking of having an 8.8 narrowed with disc brakes for the rear, but modern drums would be just fine."
They have winter in Texas???

They have a season that's cooler than summer. It usually lasts 2-3 days. Thanks for all of the input guys. I have access to a foam mock up 302 block that I am going to grab and make some measurements this weekend if all goes as planned. If anyone had a Studebaker V8 laying around they would sell, I would still entertain that idea....