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View Full Version : Some people think they have a gold mine in parts



Dan White
09-16-2013, 08:27 AM
Yesterday I had my Hawk at the Hagley Car Show in Wilmington, DE (I will cover that in another post). Anyway a fellow stops by and says he just sold a 63 GT Hawk w/ 4 speed last week and has some left over NOS parts. Well it turns out he lives only 3 miles from me and has for about 20 years. Never knew he was there! Anyway, when I get back I stop at his place to see what he has. The parts included some side scripts and chevrons, front grill surround (62 - 63) grill insert, plastic seat adjuster covers (which he thinks are worth $200), tail light and back up light lenses, headlight surrounds, (repro) seat belts and some misc. odds and ends. So he says the previous owner valued all this at $3,XXX??? I was pretty shocked at what he said and asked how did that number come about? He did not know, but said the buyer of the Hawk offered $1,500 and I said you had better jump on it because you won't find many Studebaker folks willing to part with that kind of money for what he had.

I guess I am getting old and cheap but wow if there is that kind of money in parts I must be in the wrong end of the hobby.

showbizkid
09-16-2013, 10:36 AM
Well, people can ask any price they want. The market determines actual value.

JimC
09-16-2013, 10:40 AM
I'm sure there must have been an R-series engine in the stash that you just overlooked :)

Keep in mind that as time marches farther and farther away from the last day Studebaker made a car, the price is just going to keep rising on parts. Someday some internet archaeologist will Stumble upon this thread, figure out what the cost would be in the currency of their day, and wonder why you didn't jump on that smoking hot deal ;)

PackardV8
09-16-2013, 10:43 AM
My suggestion is usually, "List them on eBay and we'll both know what they're worth when the auction is over."

The seller's answer usually is, "That's too much trouble and I don't want to have to pack and ship them."

"Well, then don't be asking individual eBay prices for an 'as-is-where-is' lot sale."

jack vines


jack vines

Dan White
09-16-2013, 11:20 AM
Jack that was exactly the sellers comments. "Well I am going to put them on ebay but would like to sell them in one lot to a Studebaker person." Most of us know what this stuff brings and no one in the right mind would shell out that kind of money, NOS or not.

Dick Steinkamp
09-16-2013, 11:33 AM
Keep in mind that as time marches farther and farther away from the last day Studebaker made a car, the price is just going to keep rising on parts.

I'm not sure that's the case. I don't see a lot of young people attracted to Studebakers which tells me that as the current crop of Studebaker lovers gets smaller and smaller that the market for Studebaker cars and parts will get smaller and smaller. My opinion is that there will be a peak in Stude interest and cars and parts prices (we may already be past the peak), then prices will decline and/or cars and parts will just not change hands. There could be exceptions to this for special stock cars and parts (Golden Hawks, R series, 53/54 C/K's) and probably for some modified cars.

Just my opinion.

wittsend
09-16-2013, 11:37 AM
There always seems to be the "I'm holding on to it unless I get top dollar" price and the, "I just want to get rid of it" price. Most people wind up paying somewhere in between. Twice a year (Spring/Fall) here in So. Cal. we have a Mopar swapmeet that is billed as the "Largest West of the Mississippi."

I was looking for an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold. They are about $150 new. Used I have seen some people asking over $100. While I got one for $30 (because I'm cheap too) the average selling price is around the $75 range. And, you would think condition would dictate price..., no, not really. So, the "value" of the item can be all over the map.

I've attended this Mopar show for years. And I've seen the same overpriced parts year in, and year out. Frankly I think some people use the event as a "weekend museum" to display their treasures rather than they really intend of selling anything.

Tom

wittsend
09-16-2013, 11:42 AM
Dick makes a point. As I type this I'm watching 55+ year old men pay top dollar for muscle cars on the Mecum auction. Frankly I don't think todays 20 to 40 something generation will be considering these "their cars" when they get old. 15-30 years from now I think the muscle cars will take a big dive in value. There will be an over abundance and little interest.

mapman
09-16-2013, 11:51 AM
I have a hard time throwing things that may still have use left in them and are not replaceable. I bought a bunch (20+/-) of triumph tr3s in the early 70's just to get a few parts that I needed. The cars were worn out and rusted and often weren't more that $20. I kept sheds full of those old parts for future needs. Now when I need one of those formerly rare parts I buy new since the reproduction stuff is often as good or better than the original parts were new.
As time goes by and production equipment gets better and more efficient pieces that were un-obtanium have been reproduced at a reasonable cost. We are seeing that now with our studebakers (i.e. C/K rear fenders). I still have sheds full of worthless old triumph parts that I can't bring myself to throw away. Meanwhile I am doing the same now with my studebakers. I'll never learn.
Rob

Jessie J.
09-16-2013, 12:07 PM
Most of the public is already unfamiliar with Studebaker's. As time passes, that unfamiliarity is only going to increase.
Say you are holding unto a stash of NOS for a '48 Fraiser, perhaps you could ask anything for them, but how many buyers would you find?
How many are going to be in the market for Stude NOS in 20-30 years? Supply and demand. The curves can and will cross. There are more used but good and NOS parts now remaining than there are surviving Studebaker's to hang them on.
I have loads of nice Stude trim and parts that I can barely give away today, I sure ain't counting on ever making big bucks off it down the road.

Oh sure, I have some parts that a collector/dealer or e-baying speculator would give me a good price for .....but odds are, that unless I use them myself on my own Studebaker restorations, they will end up a 'prize' on some speculator's shelf or attic for another 40 years.

brian6373
09-16-2013, 12:09 PM
I like the pickers on ebay that go to estate sales and buy Studebaker parts and have no idea of the market value. The add usually starts out: "Rare Studebaker Part!"

Bo Markham
09-16-2013, 04:18 PM
Most of the public is already unfamiliar with Studebaker's. As time passes, that unfamiliarity is only going to increase.
Say you are holding unto a stash of NOS for a '48 Fraiser, perhaps you could ask anything for them, but how many buyers would you find?
How many are going to be in the market for Stude NOS in 20-30 years? Supply and demand. The curves can and will cross. There are more used but good and NOS parts now remaining than there are surviving Studebaker's to hang them on.
I have loads of nice Stude trim and parts that I can barely give away today, I sure ain't counting on ever making big bucks off it down the road.

Oh sure, I have some parts that a collector/dealer or e-baying speculator would give me a good price for .....but odds are, that unless I use them myself on my own Studebaker restorations, they will end up a 'prize' on some speculator's shelf or attic for another 40 years.

I don't know, but you could probably sell the stuff to Ed Reynolds for $.10 on the dollar. It's kinda hard to tell you what your stuff is worth without knowing which cars, or trucks it fits.

Jessie J.
09-16-2013, 05:15 PM
you could probably sell the stuff to Ed Reynolds for $.10 on the dollar.
I presently own 5 Studebaker's for which most of the best of this was purchased .....some of it from Ed Reynolds.
Say there is 3k worth, Why would I sell it for $.10 on a dollar? Getting 300 bucks return out of my 3 decades of collecting is really not going to do much for my livelihood. ....and certain of these parts individually have a present market value exceeding $300.
but buyers only want to skim off the 'cream' and leave the rest.

Bob Andrews
09-16-2013, 05:26 PM
I'm not sure that's the case. I don't see a lot of young people attracted to Studebakers which tells me that as the current crop of Studebaker lovers gets smaller and smaller that the market for Studebaker cars and parts will get smaller and smaller. My opinion is that there will be a peak in Stude interest and cars and parts prices (we may already be past the peak), then prices will decline and/or cars and parts will just not change hands. There could be exceptions to this for special stock cars and parts (Golden Hawks, R series, 53/54 C/K's) and probably for some modified cars.

Just my opinion.

Absolutely agree.

Bob Andrews
09-16-2013, 05:32 PM
Say there is 3k worth, Why would I sell it for $.10 on a dollar? Getting 300 bucks return out of my 3 decades of collecting is really not going to do much for my livelihood. ....and certain of these parts individually have a present market value exceeding $300.
but buyers only want to skim off the 'cream' and leave the rest.

You would take it if you wanted it gone, that was all anyone would pay at the time you wanted the stuff gone, AND you were being realistic.

We can hope and wish for more money after 3 decades of collecting, but that doesn't mean reality will allow it. You take that chance when you invest in anything. Car parts are no different.

showbizkid
09-16-2013, 10:24 PM
People can ask whatever they want for the parts they own. It's their right.
If the price isn't to your liking, you can pass on the deal. That's your right.

But you don't have the right to tell other people what they should take for their stuff.

Are we done now?

DEEPNHOCK
09-17-2013, 07:34 AM
IMOHO, I think the recent crop of reality shows has really messed up the value of cars and car stuff.

Gas Monkey, American Picker's, Pawn Stars, American Restoration, yada yada yada...
They all base everything on 'profit'. And they base very little on sales effort and marketing.
The mantra is 'buy it cheap'....'flip it'....'cash in' and run.
They don't even care if their item du-jour loses money, because their TV revenue fills that gap.
Short attention span greed...perfect on the half hour TV format.

It is noteworthy that the once scorned Ebay has turned into the value determiner for the rare car parts world.

The evolution of our hobby is not always pretty.
Jeffhttp://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/images/icons/icon6.png

Jessie J.
09-17-2013, 07:56 AM
But how much of these speculation driven parts will ever make it unto an actual vehicle?
I know that the NOS still in the original factory packaging Stude parts that I have on hand will lose most of their market value the day that I bolt them onto a car.
Does it make sense to install a NOS part that would e-bay for $600+ onto a less than pristine vehicle, where it will raise that vehicles market value by maybe 50 bucks?

I have always been into the Studebaker hobby for pleasure. I will not sell to speculators and scavengers.
These parts will either make it unto someone's Studebaker, or remain with me till my demise.
In that event, I have instructed my wife and family to gift any remaining Studebaker parts or memorabilia to one of our active and enthusiastic Studebaker acquaintances.

raoul5788
09-17-2013, 08:13 AM
But how much of these speculation driven parts will ever make it unto an actual vehicle?
I know that the NOS still in the original factory packaging Stude parts that I have on hand will lose most of their market value the day that I bolt them onto a car.
Does it make sense to install a NOS part that would e-bay for $600+ onto a less than pristine vehicle, where it will raise that vehicles market value by maybe 50 bucks?

For me, yes if it is a part I want on the car. The money isn't as important to me.

Jessie J.
09-17-2013, 08:35 AM
That's the way I felt when I purchased these parts. and even today I'd rather give a rare part to someone whose restoration actually needed it, and would USE it, than see it pass into the hands of a speculator or flipper.
I want to see to it, to the best of my ability, that these parts end up used on Studebaker's that are cherished by their owners. Not simply 'old car dealers', and flippers or speculating hoarders.

Dan White
09-17-2013, 09:09 AM
The reason I started this thread was to explain my experience with a person that knows nothing of the Studebaker market. He flipped a '63 GT Hawk to an apparent also know-nothing for what money I am not sure. When he went through the parts he had he was saying how rare this or that was or that this part is a real killer (sorry chrome plated plastic seat adjuster covers are not killer in my book), a pair of repro seat belts that you can get from our vendors for $70 give or take a pair he wanted $250. $100 ea. for a NOS tail light and backup lenses. $1,500 for a GT grill collar, etc. A person needs to do some homework so they just don't look stupid to anyone that knows the market. It would have been easy for him to look up most, not all, of these items on SI website, and some of the others on past ebay auctions. I don't mind folks asking top dollar but ignorance just kills a deal when someone thinks that what they have is gold, and is sometimes fool's gold.

showbizkid
09-17-2013, 11:04 AM
The interesting thing to note here is the repeating disconnect between values in the Stude community and those in the "outside world" (if you will).

How many times have we seen someone not intimately involved in the Studebaker "family" ask what we consider to be an outrageous price on a car? We talk amongst ourselves about how a certain vehicle is really only worth so much, when the seller (who knows nothing about Studes except that it is an old, cool looking car), asks 2X that amount, and gets it -- from someone else also not inside the Stude assemblage. In the case of the parts Dan is talking about, the price of NOS parts like that for, say, a '63 T-Bird would be right about in line. And a GT Hawk is at least as cool as a T-Bird :)

All of which leads me to ask this rhetorical question: is it really the non-conversants who are in the dark on pricing, or is it us insiders who value our cars and parts too lightly?

Disclaimer: I'm playing Devil's advocate here. I like cheap parts as well as anyone. I don't want to see the cost of my hobby go up. I'm just asking this in order to get us thinking.

Dan White
09-17-2013, 12:48 PM
In many instances Studebaker International sets the market prices since they repro or deal with repro companies and have the largest stock of NOS parts in the business. The other vendors also have some input but SI is the big duck in the small pond for us. Ebay also sets the market on some of the other items that come and go. As sellers we all want top dollar and as buyers we all want it cheap, however, some folks have no idea as sellers or buyers and that is their problem. An informed seller or buyer will always do better than ignorant ones. As always there is inside baseball and everyone else and it will continue to be that way for better or worse.

I think we all have seen what happens when certain items of need are scarce, witness front C/K fenders, but when I went to SI last summer and got some tail area sheet metal pieces for my '57 wagon that I thought would be big bucks and rare, I was surprised at a price of $15 ea, guess what they have quite a few of them and not much demand. Same for Zip Van parts, how many parts are in SI inventory (quite a few actually) and how many are on the road or will be restored (not many). I don't think we as a car mark community are out to lunch on what the market is and should be.

jclary
09-17-2013, 01:07 PM
The interesting thing to note here is the repeating disconnect between values in the Stude community and those in the "outside world" (if you will).

How many times have we seen someone not intimately involved in the Studebaker "family" ask what we consider to be an outrageous price on a car? We talk amongst ourselves about how a certain vehicle is really only worth so much, when the seller (who knows nothing about Studes except that it is an old, cool looking car), asks 2X that amount, and gets it -- from someone else also not inside the Stude assemblage. In the case of the parts Dan is talking about, the price of NOS parts like that for, say, a '63 T-Bird would be right about in line. And a GT Hawk is at least as cool as a T-Bird :)

All of which leads me to ask this rhetorical question: is it really the non-conversants who are in the dark on pricing, or is it us insiders who value our cars and parts too lightly?

Disclaimer: I'm playing Devil's advocate here. I like cheap parts as well as anyone. I don't want to see the cost of my hobby go up. I'm just asking this in order to get us thinking.

Great post and worth quoting:!:

As "with it" and "cool" as (I confess) I think I am:rolleyes:...I find that the value of parts varies greatly on whether I am "selling"...or "buying!":lol:

Skip Lackie
09-17-2013, 01:29 PM
As "with it" and "cool" as (I confess) I think I am:rolleyes:...I find that the value of parts varies greatly on whether I am "selling"...or "buying!":lol:
My (unintentional) approach has always been to buy high and sell low.

Dick Steinkamp
09-17-2013, 01:56 PM
All of which leads me to ask this rhetorical question: is it really the non-conversants who are in the dark on pricing, or is it us insiders who value our cars and parts too lightly?



Interesting point. I have also witnessed examples of this. Maybe the CASO thing has more truth in it than just being a good joke on ourselves. :)

showbizkid
09-17-2013, 04:06 PM
My (unintentional) approach has always been to buy high and sell low.

You and me both! :o

JimC
09-17-2013, 04:40 PM
I have often said that the biggest devaluation of a Studebaker is the owner. It's actually shocking to see what people think your car is worth. Go on, try it sometime. Take a Lark, wax it and buff it, clean the interior, and take it to a car show. Ask the guys who showed up in Fords and Chevies what they think a guy would pay for a car like that. It's amazing.

After I got my Lark last spring, I had several conversations with people about the car's value, and nobody could believe that I got it under $3000. One guy said it should be robbery to have a car that nice for under $10k.

And it's not all rhetoric. Look at the Studebakers that have escaped the gravitational black hole designated as SDC-CASO and been flung into the orbits of the elite auction world. They've raked in huge bucks. Even closer to home, just about everyone here has heard of a guy who bought a $10,000 Lark, or something similar. And when someone mentions one of those auctions or sales here, the forum bubbles with folks laughing that they were conned out of a lot of money, and the joke is on them.

Or is the joke on us? Studebakers are much more rare than a lot of cars out there, certainly more than any of the big 3. In my opinion as a younger person, they are also every bit as well built, every bit as fun to drive, and every bit as cool as any other car of equal rarity.

Personally, I'm just glad that the Stude world holds prices as low as they do. I couldn't afford a Bel Air or a Fairlane in the same condition as my Lark! For the most part, the parts are more reasonable too! :D

Dan White
09-17-2013, 05:34 PM
I would agree with the car values, they are when compared to other vehicles of similar age from the big 3, often cheap, or how to say it politely, economical. However, owning a '67 Firebird I can tell you that almost the whole car is reproed to the point that parts are relatively cheap and the same goes for many of the popular big 3 cars, Mustangs, Camaros, GTOs, Chargers....... Not all models are so lucky but many are.

showbizkid
09-17-2013, 07:17 PM
That's true, Dan. I can buy repro parts for my '67 LeMans all day long.

(Except for tissue dispensers. Talk about stuff that people think is made of gold! :D )