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ddub
08-29-2013, 03:00 PM
I am not skinny enough to crawl under and I am unwilling to pay the price of a real car lift. What reasonably priced, reasonably easy and very safe methods have you found for raising the car and supporting it while you work under it?

Gunslinger
08-29-2013, 03:09 PM
Just get four jackstands...use a floor jack to lift the car, slide the stands under it at solid locations and lower the car onto them. They're not expensive and easy to use.

StudHawk60
08-29-2013, 03:10 PM
I use a floor jack and jackstands.

showbizkid
08-29-2013, 03:13 PM
Same here... I generally use the floor jack to lift under the steering centerpoint, then place two jackstands under the frame a-pillar extension fishplates. Then I raise the rear end with the floor jack under the third member, and place the jackstands at the outer ends of each axle tube. Steady as she goes!

63 R2 Hawk
08-29-2013, 03:18 PM
Harbor Freight has some heavy duty floor jacks that are probably good enough for the average hobby mechanic. Get something with the heaviest capacity, highest lift and get four sturdy, tall jackstands. I have used ramps but don't really like them. I also like their aluminum lightweight floor jacks, but they're not cheap. I finally broke down and got a two post asymetric lift, cost $2300USD and $400 to have professionally installed, getting too old to be grovelling under cars and trucks......

warrlaw1
08-29-2013, 03:51 PM
Short ad they screened at the drive-in for a local crane company "If you can't get it up...call us!"

Commander Eddie
08-29-2013, 03:55 PM
All good ideas. Here's one more.
I often use a hydraulic floor jack to lift the car and then use portable ramps. You just jack it up high enough to get the ramps under the wheels and then lower the vehicle down on to them. I find the ramps move when I try to drive up on them and if you are using them on all four wheels it gets even more tricky. And unless your car sits pretty high you can't stage the rear ramps under the car anyway. Jacking and lowering works best.

jclary
08-29-2013, 04:08 PM
I use Jacks and jack stands. Unless the jack is in my way, I keep them under the car along with the jack stands. One additional note...when the car is on jack stands, DO NOT PUSH AGAINST THE CAR TO MOVE YOUR ROLLING CREEPER OR TO ASSIST YOU GETTING UP!!!:ohmy:...you can cause the car to fall off the stands if your chassis is oily and slick. People have died this way, even with jack stands.

JohnMSeymour
08-29-2013, 04:23 PM
I use jackstands and the ramps also. But I like to use railroad ties cut to 20'' and stacked two high under the rear axel. Even a California earth quake won't knock the car off them.

Corvanti
08-29-2013, 04:38 PM
i do basically the same as most above, but i have 2 floor jacks. (i had to pick up the second one when i had my '99 Corvette that needed a lower start point). 4 jack stands and leave the floor jacks in place for additional safety.

BTW, "China" Freight;) has a "Rapid Pump" 3 ton floor jack on sale right now for $79.99 with a coupon. if you don't get the mailer, i'm sure you can print out a coupon at H.F.'s website.

sweetolbob
08-29-2013, 05:36 PM
All of my jack stands are 6 ton rated, not that I have anything that heavy but for the extra few bucks they are just so much more substantial and have wider bases than the lower rated ones. Jacks are 3 ton or better, but as with 63 R2 Hawk above, the best investment I've made in many moons is an 8000# XLT four post lift for $2600 installed.

I've been under the 74 Avanti for the last three weeks completing exhaust, fuel and drive train components. The lift just makes everything so much easier to get to and work on.


Bob

SN-60
08-29-2013, 05:40 PM
I use Jacks and jack stands. Unless the jack is in my way, I keep them under the car along with the jack stands. One additional note...when the car is on jack stands, DO NOT PUSH AGAINST THE CAR TO MOVE YOUR ROLLING CREEPER OR TO ASSIST YOU GETTING UP!!!:ohmy:...you can cause the car to fall off the stands if your chassis is oily and slick. People have died this way, even with jack stands.


How many folks really think about this?.....excellent point.

Dag
08-29-2013, 06:01 PM
In adition to jack and stands already mentioned, a got a set of portable hydraulic ramps that really has proven useful for a lot of work:

26982

63t-cab
08-29-2013, 06:36 PM
Some times I'll borrow my brother's ramps He made 40 years ago.drive the car up on them,and then the ramp part un hooks so the wheels are on the box.then I jack the back up to meet the same height,and usually works for what i want to do.

63t-cab
08-29-2013, 06:38 PM
Man could I use a set of those,I'll have to see if maybe Harbor Freight has something like that.
In adition to jack and stands already mentioned, a got a set of portable hydraulic ramps that really has proven useful for a lot of work:

26982

Jerry Forrester
08-29-2013, 06:42 PM
bumper jack with cement blocks under the tires. <G>

Dick Steinkamp
08-29-2013, 06:46 PM
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/jerrystudebaker/Stella/120_zps0b47393a.jpg

Jerry,
Do you still have that 55? It is clearly the best looking 55 coupe I have ever seen. Awesome 2 tone. Perfect stance. The wire wheel covers and top color wheels really pop.

(not bad chrome either :cool:)

Jerry Forrester
08-29-2013, 07:48 PM
Jerry,
Do you still have that 55? It is clearly the best looking 55 coupe I have ever seen. Awesome 2 tone. Perfect stance. The wire wheel covers and top color wheels really pop.(not bad chrome either :cool:)
Sadly, no.
Deby and I were at the IM in Charlotte, NC a few years ago and I stuck a for sale sign in the window. A family from Ohio happened to be traveling through Charlotte while on vacation in their motor home and saw all the Studies and stopped to look around. When he saw Stella he gave me a deposit and drove back down to Georgia two weeks later with his motor home pulling a sixteen foot trailer, paid me the balance and went straight back to Ohio.
Maybe it was Penn. he was from. I'm 70 years old and should not be required to remember trivial stuff like that.

Jerry Forrester
08-29-2013, 07:55 PM
(not bad chrome either :cool:)
Chrome??? Here's an under the hood shot.

55s
08-29-2013, 08:09 PM
I've had heavy duty jackstands fold on me twice. I do not trust them. I have a four poster lift. I figure my life is worth more than $2,000.

Dick Steinkamp
08-29-2013, 08:10 PM
Your story is a GREAT reason to hold some of the IM activities (hopefully the main event...the concours) during the weekend when visitors can view the cars and get hooked on Studebakering.

Flashback
08-29-2013, 08:10 PM
Here's one method I use:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/firststudSFleetjack007.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Flashback53/media/firststudSFleetjack007.jpg.html)

This bad boy has been around a while

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/garage7-31-12030.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Flashback53/media/garage7-31-12030.jpg.html)

Flashback
08-29-2013, 08:16 PM
I also use ramps after lifting with a floor jack. I turn one one way and the other the other way to stop rolling

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/garage7-31-12003.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Flashback53/media/garage7-31-12003.jpg.html)

Flashback
08-29-2013, 08:19 PM
Depends on what the undercarriage is like, sometimes, as to what I use

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/boburt005.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Flashback53/media/boburt005.jpg.html)

tony58
08-29-2013, 08:26 PM
CASO=go get some 2x6 lumber.cut four pieces 3 foot or so.Then cut four pieces around 12" shorter.Then cut four more 12" shorter than the previous pieces.Nail them together like stair steps.You can also make them longer for more pieces.Also you can make some stops for the top piece.If you have three pieces that will give you almost 6" more under the carand so on.Just put them in front of each tire and ease up on them.Plus this keeps the car level.
I made some around 25 years ago and still use them.You can also attach a rope handle for easy transport.
Tony

63t-cab
08-29-2013, 08:44 PM
Done that too Jerry,and the WALLS come tumblin down:eek:
bumper jack with cement blocks under the tires. <G>

San Diego Ron
08-29-2013, 09:28 PM
I put front wheels up on ramps then use jack stands at rear and keep jack under there just for added safety. If car is knocked off stands or they tilt front of car will still be up.
26990
26991

JimC
08-29-2013, 10:12 PM
bumper jack with cement blocks under the tires. <G>
I see that you knew my grandpa. :D :D :D

Seriously, that's all that he had to work on his Studebaker. The nicotine death sticks killed him in his early 60's, but if they hadn't it wouldn't surprise me if his method of lifting a car would have eventually done him in.

JimC
08-29-2013, 10:34 PM
In response to the OP, I have jack stands, but if I'm under the car for more than a few seconds, I get awful paranoid. Usually I'll set concrete blocks stacked up near where I am as a failsafe plan, and I will always keep the jack under the car, with the tension off it. These things might not stop a car from losing the battle to gravity, but my hope is that they would slow it down enough for my reflexes to kick in.

On the topic of the jack stands themselves, I never bring mine to their highest setting, figuring they're a lot more stable if they're not as extended. Being a Studebaker owner, I get the urge to save money in weird places, but I still cannot bring myself to buy Harbor Freight jack stands. Nothing against cheap tools. I use 'em all the time. But jack stands are also a life saving device. If you were going sky diving, and the instructor hands you a Korean war-era parachute pack he picked up real cheap at the surplus store, would you board that plane? I keep asking myself if the approximate $10-$15 savings in buying them at Harbor freight is worth the risk, and despite the fact that I am a huge cheapskate, I can't say that it is. If my torque wrench fails, the corrective practice is a band-aid and a trip in the Studebaker to the tool store. If my jack stand fails, the corrective practice is a body bag and a trip in the back of a hearse. Sure, they're not the most complex tool, and it's highly unlikely it would fail, but it's a risk anyway.

rockne10
08-29-2013, 10:45 PM
Here's one method I use:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/firststudSFleetjack007.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Flashback53/media/firststudSFleetjack007.jpg.html)

This bad boy has been around a while

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/garage7-31-12030.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Flashback53/media/garage7-31-12030.jpg.html)

Dear friend of mine used the same item in his shop without the benefit of jackstands. When an "o" ring in the cylinder failed and the vehicle dropped, every orifice in his skull spewed liquid. My occupation prevented me from attending the funeral.

Getting it up is seldom an issue. Keeping it up for the necessary performance should not be taken for granted. ;):rolleyes:

Pat Dilling
08-29-2013, 11:41 PM
I have this floor jack and just love it. It has a long low reach perfect for our low slung coupes, and it has a lot more lift than many jacks. Sale price is much better than I paid. Notice they also have jack stands on sale. I know some people don't trust the Harbor Freight jack stands, but I have several and have found the quality to be very good.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-Heavy-Duty-Floor-Jack-with-Rapid-Pump-61253.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiMjQ5NzYzODgiLCJza3UiOiI2MTI1MyIsImlzIjoiNzQuOTkiLC Jwcm9kdWN0X2lk%0D%0AIjoiOTk0OCJ9%0D%0A

I never go under the car without jack stands or ramps. I made a set of wood ones like tony58 mentioned 40 years ago and gave them to a friend when I had a military move. He still has them and I just had to use them when we got together in Colorado Springs during the IM. I have to say they have not gotten any lighter in 40 years. Rope handels would be a great idea.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5457/9627753330_4d33dcfd31_z.jpg

sals54
08-30-2013, 12:35 AM
Who needs jack stands ??? This method seems to work pretty well. Especially when welding on the gas tank.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/sals54/JackStands_zpsbd9625c5.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/sals54/media/JackStands_zpsbd9625c5.jpg.html)

sals54
08-30-2013, 12:49 AM
Pat.
I dig your wood ramps. Yeah, the rope handles look like they would be a good idea. Another thought I had was to drill some holes in the top layer. Then you could insert a wheel chock of sorts to prevent the car from rolling off the ramp front or back. I think I'm gonna make a couple of those.

Do you have a PDF file you could download with the specifications you used to mock these up? Perhaps you have a blueprint of the mechanical drawing you worked off of to design them?? What about taking some high resolution digital photos of the originals so we could load them into a program that will allow us to make up our own "to scale" images to work from...... Or maybe I could just wing it ??

ddub
08-30-2013, 12:57 AM
Who needs jack stands ??? This method seems to work pretty well. Especially when welding on the gas tank.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/sals54/JackStands_zpsbd9625c5.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/sals54/media/JackStands_zpsbd9625c5.jpg.html)


Now that's a scarey picture!

I have had bad experiences with the cheap metal ramps. So far it sounds like good jack stands and a good floor jack will be what I do. Right now I have a Sears floor jack that is heavy, cumbersome, hard to move and the handle has so much travel that it is hard to use, especially on the front of a low car. Will look for a replacement.

I have had mixed results with Harbor Freight. What about Northern Tool? Anyone have experience with their stuff?

clonelark
08-30-2013, 03:15 AM
I've never seen your car in person Pat, the color is aw-som, always seen pic's like your signature pic, looked more orangeish red That picture really pops. It really is STU COOL.

jclary
08-30-2013, 07:21 AM
Now that's a scarey picture!

I have had bad experiences with the cheap metal ramps. So far it sounds like good jack stands and a good floor jack will be what I do. Right now I have a Sears floor jack that is heavy, cumbersome, hard to move and the handle has so much travel that it is hard to use, especially on the front of a low car. Will look for a replacement.

I have had mixed results with Harbor Freight. What about Northern Tool? Anyone have experience with their stuff?

I have been a Northern Tool customer since (back in the day) they were known as Northern Hydraulics. Years ago, they always seemed to carry fairly good quality products. When Harbor Freight came on the scene, they seemed to be the "upstart" of the tool business with tons of cheap flea-market-grade tools. However, as time and competition has progressed...both seem to have their strong points and weaknesses. In some cases, I think both shop at the same importers playgrounds, with only different color paint and stick on labels for the same products. Example is the economical media blasters, jacks, and battery chargers.

As to those drive-on ramps. When the little metal ones came on the scene back in the 1970's...they were strong with braces, welded on both sides, that produced a very strong wedge. Later versions eliminated the braces. Those may be as strong, but UN-nerve me and I avoid them. There are also some made of plastic. I also avoid them, because I know how plastic degrades with time.

skyway
08-30-2013, 08:07 AM
?The big bad air powered "bumper" jacks that I use have detents that you must clear manually all the way down.
I lift, then back off to the closest detent and have always felt pretty safe. But no, not without those detents.

Blue 15G
08-30-2013, 08:53 AM
I use a floor jack to lift the car and then use jackstands. I have some that can position the car quite high, but I prefer to use ones that aren't quite so high. It just seems less precarious and sometimes you don't need a very tall height to accomplish your work under there.

I also leave the floor jack in position, tightened, but not holding up the car. And I've been known to place additional stands or bottle jacks in strategic locations along with using the main stands. Safety first, always.

Someone mentioned using concrete blocks. These are unsafe for car weight and shouldn't be used.

Dave Bonn
'54 Champion Starliner

Blue 15G
08-30-2013, 08:56 AM
I've also seen some old time residential garages where someone installed a pit. This seems safe, but wouldn't be of any safety help if you had to remove a wheel or wheels. They also can get debris in them and of course, you had better have a good way to cover it when the car isn't there so no one falls into it.

Dave Bonn
'54 Champion Starliner

jclary
08-30-2013, 10:20 AM
Someone mentioned using concrete blocks. These are unsafe for car weight and shouldn't be used.

Dave Bonn
'54 Champion Starliner

OH MY!:ohmy: Does that mean I need to get rid of all those concrete block pillars holding up my house and replace them with jack stands????:rolleyes::)

BRUCESTUDE
08-30-2013, 10:24 AM
Buy a decent floor jack also; I have a 3.5 ton rated with a long handle and low profile. I have jack stands too, but use a chunk of RR tie under the front wheels if I need to maneuver an engine hoist under the front end.

GEEMAC
08-30-2013, 10:57 AM
Have been using four pcs.of r.r. ties cut twenty four inches for as long as i can remember, My oldest son turned fifty this yr. so last week i told him i would buy him a post life so he should pick one out, he wanted to know what was connected to it and i told him that i always wanted one but was to tight buy one,sounds old,huh Told him that since he had turned fifty we were both to old to be rolling around on that hard cement, boy is this going to feel great Mac /I]

dictator27
08-30-2013, 11:03 AM
The first place I worked at as an apprentice in the 1960s was Vancouver's oldest (at the time) Ford dealer Dominion Motors which is no longer in business. The service department was on the third floor. Originally it had been on the ground floor which had a ceiling high enough to accomodate in floor hydraulic hoists and Model T Fords. Obviously, in floor hoists were an impossibility on the third floor, and even if it had been possible, the ceiling height on the third floor was just ten feet, because its original intent was car storage. Because of that, everything was done using floor jacks, hydaulic bumper jacks, air operated bay lifts, chain blocks and "jack stands". The "jack stands" were old Ford split banjo differential housings which had had the axle tubes cut off at heights of 12 or 15 inches and a notch cut in them to place them under rear axles or front suspensions. In the five years I was there , there was only one incident which could have resulted in serious injury or death. It involved one of the bay lifts and exposed both a design flaw and a usage problem. The bay lifts were basically very large air operated floor jacks with two arms which were placed far enough apart that they fit under the outer ends of the front suspension or rear axle. They lifted one end of the car. The problem with them was when a car was raised, its full weight was on one half inch diameter four inch long clevis pin. One of them sheared off just after the mechanic had crawled out from under the car. That exposed the usage problem. The length and width of the bay lifts frame eliminated the ability to place the "jack stands" anywhere that they would have been useful if the lift failed, so they were never used. They were relegated to the scrap heap after that incident.

Terry

Pat Dilling
08-30-2013, 11:34 AM
Pat.
I dig your wood ramps. Yeah, the rope handles look like they would be a good idea. Another thought I had was to drill some holes in the top layer. Then you could insert a wheel chock of sorts to prevent the car from rolling off the ramp front or back. I think I'm gonna make a couple of those.

Do you have a PDF file you could download with the specifications you used to mock these up? Perhaps you have a blueprint of the mechanical drawing you worked off of to design them?? What about taking some high resolution digital photos of the originals so we could load them into a program that will allow us to make up our own "to scale" images to work from...... Or maybe I could just wing it ??

No doubt a CADD drawing and an automated saw and nailing station would be the way to go. Seriously if I were to make another set in addition to rope handles, I would fasten a piece of 2x2 at the high edge to act as a tire stop, I would also leave about a 3 inch extension on the bottom board at the high end. This would reduce the chance of them ever going over-center. Your idea of a removable stop at the back of the top board is also good.

Fun story now, I built these to take to the drag strip for my friends and I to drive up on to open our headers. On our second date, my wife went with me to the drags. I found out much later that she had dropped one of these ramps on her foot while being helpful. Turned her foot black and blue. Embarrassed, she suffered in silence and did not tell me about it until sometime later. I showed her this picture and she definitely remembers the ramps!

And thanks for the kind comments clonelark.

SScopelli
08-30-2013, 11:39 AM
My dad, as seen below, always said to Keep your back straight and bend only at the knees!:D

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a609/R2Whistler/LiftingTheCar_zpsd0a246f1.jpg

63t-cab
08-30-2013, 02:49 PM
You're to much:yeahright:
My dad, as seen below, always said to Keep your back straight and bend only at the knees!:D

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a609/R2Whistler/LiftingTheCar_zpsd0a246f1.jpg

Corvanti
08-30-2013, 03:38 PM
re: jack stands - the pair of 3 ton stands i picked up at Harbor Freight 4 or 5 years ago were exactly the same as the ones i had purchased at Advance Auto a month or 2 prior. except the advance were black, the HF were red and about 60% of the price.

re: ramps - i picked up a pair of plastic ones at Advance at the same time as the jack stands. the last time i used them around 3 months ago, one of them cracked - so that was the end of my use of the ramps! they were also useless in the 'cave with its smooth concrete floor, but ok on the rougher surfaced concrete driveway.

as far as Harbor Freight "quality" - most of what i pick up there is not for "daily" use. (most of my wrenches, sockets, etc. are mainly Craftsman i've had since the early 70's). the only item i had to return to HF was a battery charger that conked out on its 2nd use. maybe i've just been lucky.:)

tbirdtbird
08-30-2013, 04:15 PM
here's the deal on concrete blocks.
with the holes up and weight on top, the block is strong
if you have the holes on the side and the weight is on the top they will fail
think about it. In construction the holes are always UP

Flashback
08-30-2013, 04:25 PM
Sometimes I use this:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/MYRACESHOPampDADSOLDSTUFF001_zps2240f67f.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Flashback53/media/MYRACESHOPampDADSOLDSTUFF001_zps2240f67f.jpg.html)

Flashback
08-30-2013, 04:28 PM
Dear friend of mine used the same item in his shop without the benefit of jackstands. When an "o" ring in the cylinder failed and the vehicle dropped, every orifice in his skull spewed liquid. My occupation prevented me from attending the funeral.

Getting it up is seldom an issue. Keeping it up for the necessary performance should not be taken for granted. ;):rolleyes:

This one is mechanical (no cylinder or o-ring). Course I use blocks under wheels and jack stands also

Aussie Hawk
08-30-2013, 05:32 PM
Call me paranoid like Jim C, but I won't get under a car with all four wheels off and on jack stands, I'll usually leave one set of wheels on, and with the floor jack under as well, just for some added support as a fail safe. If I do have the car up on all four stands, I'll only work from the out side. When even up only on two, with the added jack I give it a good shake before getting underneath it., and am careful not to get too vigorous with spanners while under it. I'm a fitter and turner by trade, (it's a mix of what you guys call a journeyman in machining and mechanic), I still have all my fingers and toes, and only a few work related scars, and want to keep it that way. I certainly don't want my love for Studes to be the death on me ;-)

Studebaker Wheel
08-30-2013, 07:02 PM
27006
I believe this guy is still available. Let me know if interested. Car is a '31 Dictator.

mmagic
08-30-2013, 08:02 PM
DO NOT PUSH AGAINST THE CAR TO MOVE YOUR ROLLING CREEPER OR TO ASSIST YOU GETTING UP!!!:ohmy:

My classic car partner had a co-worker die making this mistake. You can't get him under a car on ramps or jackstands.

For this reason my cheap HF creeper is about to go as the casters are no longer turning willingly and I'm frequently tempted to grab the vehicle.

I normally stack a couple of mounted tires under the vehicle as a safety.

My painting plan is to prep and paint the Speedster Congo Ivory roof then cover it with plastic and place the car back on jack stands so I can do the rest of it at a comfortable height. I won't need to be under it to appreciate the use of jackstands.

tony58
08-30-2013, 09:10 PM
I have this floor jack and just love it. It has a long low reach perfect for our low slung coupes, and it has a lot more lift than many jacks. Sale price is much better than I paid. Notice they also have jack stands on sale. I know some people don't trust the Harbor Freight jack stands, but I have several and have found the quality to be very good.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-Heavy-Duty-Floor-Jack-with-Rapid-Pump-61253.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiMjQ5NzYzODgiLCJza3UiOiI2MTI1MyIsImlzIjoiNzQuOTkiLC Jwcm9kdWN0X2lk%0D%0AIjoiOTk0OCJ9%0D%0A

I never go under the car without jack stands or ramps. I made a set of wood ones like tony58 mentioned 40 years ago and gave them to a friend when I had a military move. He still has them and I just had to use them when we got together in Colorado Springs during the IM. I have to say they have not gotten any lighter in 40 years. Rope handels would be a great idea.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5457/9627753330_4d33dcfd31_z.jpg

Pat,
I was looking at the car the first go round and missed your ramps.I bet they are heavy with five planks together.Should give extra 9-91/2 inches.I'd also like to know the name of the color?
thanks,
Tony

brian6373
09-13-2013, 01:14 AM
Most of the jack stands I've seen have a sort of half-moon cut-out at the top to fit a rear axel. If I'm using these under the frame I place a length of 2x2 lengthwise between the stand and the frame. When the weight of the car is placed on them, the wood will "crush" a little and won't slip. I also have squares of plywood under the jack stands. This makes them a lot more stable.
Brian

benaslopoke
09-13-2013, 08:02 AM
Years ago I worked at a dealership that had several two post lifts.. One of the MECHANICS put a car on a little off center front to rear.. The inevitable happened and down it came but the real culprit was that the concrete was only just an inch or two thick and had pulled out the studs.. Needless to say major changes in that shop came about.. In that same shop years before a MECHANIC pulled a gas tank off a car and went to lunch with it on the lift with a single 6' or so stand under the rear of the vehicle.. Well, during lunch the old center post lift lost height but the stand didn't.. He got back from lunch and the car was upside down in the middle of the shop..

Pat Dilling
09-13-2013, 10:18 AM
Pat,
I was looking at the car the first go round and missed your ramps.I bet they are heavy with five planks together.Should give extra 9-91/2 inches.I'd also like to know the name of the color?
thanks,
Tony

Tony, Sorry for the late reply I just saw your question. The paint is a blend made from two of PPGs brightest reds, so it doesn't have a specific name. It's nice to have a unique color, but somewhat of a pain when you need to purchase more for touch ups. It is PPG's single stage Concept.

SScopelli
09-13-2013, 07:08 PM
Who needs jack stands ??? This method seems to work pretty well. Especially when welding on the gas tank.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/sals54/JackStands_zpsbd9625c5.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/sals54/media/JackStands_zpsbd9625c5.jpg.html)

What is more Scary?

Jacking up a car like this!

or

Welding next to the gas tank!

Only in the Philippines!

LeoH
09-13-2013, 07:24 PM
Thanks for the pics of the homemade jackstands.
I have an issue with a scissors jack I bought in order to replace the bumper opener jack that comes with the car. I haven't figured out how it would lift up the rear of the car. What are some of your tricks with car jacks and roadside tire replacements?

LeoH
09-13-2013, 07:28 PM
SSCopelli, I'm sure he wouldn't have been able to do this if he hadn't taken the luggage out of the car first! :woot:

Corvanti
09-13-2013, 08:02 PM
Thanks for the pics of the homemade jackstands.
I have an issue with a scissors jack I bought in order to replace the bumper opener jack that comes with the car. I haven't figured out how it would lift up the rear of the car. What are some of your tricks with car jacks and roadside tire replacements?

for a flat tire - back in the 70's, i used to have a short hydraulic bottle jack to assist the vehicle's jack. get it up enough if needed, on the particular car - to fit the bottle jack in a secure area.

i don't think i'd want to use a scissors jack for more than one wheel at a time - under the frame or axle, or in the "slot" for most newer cars.

now for a simple puncture in the tread area, i've always tried "fix-a-flat" or a similar product first. many times i'll get enough air pressure to get off a busy road or to a service garage.

showbizkid
09-14-2013, 09:49 AM
Oh, and if you have a decent hydraulic floor jack, somewhere on it is a (crusty, garage-grime covered) Zerk fitting to lube the screw drive. Do yourself a favor and give it a shot of chassis lube - your lifting effort will reduce noticeably :)

Hawklover
09-14-2013, 11:00 AM
Years ago some jerk jacked my Avanti with this kind of jack.........bent the hell out of my rear bumper................never said sorry or offered to replace:-(

Hawklover
09-14-2013, 11:09 AM
Long time SDCer Carl Lange from Uniondale, Long Island was killed when he crawled under the '36 Coupe Express he was working on. He pulled on the frame to slide his creeper under the truck, the jack stands had hard plastic tops so as to not scratch the paint on the chassis........it took just a little pull for the truck to slide on those plastic caps, and down the truck came on Carl's chest. RIP my dear friend.
My classic car partner had a co-worker die making this mistake. You can't get him under a car on ramps or jackstands.

For this reason my cheap HF creeper is about to go as the casters are no longer turning willingly and I'm frequently tempted to grab the vehicle.

I normally stack a couple of mounted tires under the vehicle as a safety.

My painting plan is to prep and paint the Speedster Congo Ivory roof then cover it with plastic and place the car back on jack stands so I can do the rest of it at a comfortable height. I won't need to be under it to appreciate the use of jackstands.

showbizkid
09-14-2013, 11:18 AM
I have seen guys spray Plasti-Dip on top of the jackstand saddles. Helps grip and anti-slip and no-mar all at the same time.

hausdok
09-14-2013, 01:54 PM
Hi,

If you can't afford a 4-post lift or don't have the height for one, a small portable hydraulic scissor lift is probably the safest way to go. Harbor Freight sells one for $1400 (Well, actually it's $1399.99). Click this link (http://www.harborfreight.com/6000-lb-capacity-scissor-lift-91315.html). When you're not using it you can store it standing up against the side of the garage out of the way (On second thought, strike that - the danged thing weighs over 800 lbs!). You need 7 inches of clearance beneath the car to drive over it and it will lift to a maximum height of 54 inches bearing on the frame and leaving the front and rear suspension hanging free.

Ramps can be dangerous as hell. I have a pair of steel ramps and I had to fabricate a set of braces that extend from the base of the ramps to the back wall of my garage so that they wouldn't jump out when I'm driving the car up onto them to change the oil. Recently I saw some heavy solid rubber ramps at O'Reilly's that looked promising. I should think that rubber would grip the floor instead of sliding like the steel ramps do. Ramps don't allow you to work on the suspension. In truth, they're not good for much of anything except changing the oil.

If you can't afford a scissor lift and don't want to screw around with ramps you need to start thinking about jack stands. For the cheapest price on jack stands around, look in the Sunday paper for the Parade magazine insert or in the coupon supplement; you can find a HFT ad page in there about every two weeks. If you get Popular Mechanics Magazine there is a 2-page HFT add in every issue. These pages have coupons that will give you the lowest HFT prices - even sometimes lower than those shown in the Inside Track Club member catalog.

Depending on which week it is, you'll either find an ad for the 1.5 ton rapid-pump aluminum racing jack (Item#68053)($59.99) or the 2.5 ton rapid pump heavy duty steel floor jack(Item# 68049 or #60688) ($69.99). The aluminum jack is great if you want to throw one into your trunk tool kit for when you get a flat on the road (It only weighs 27 pounds), but the steel jack is better for the home shop because it has a longer stance, wider pad and it lifts a total of 20 inches versus only the 14.75 inches the aluminum jack can lift.

The same pages will net you the best prices on jack stands. A month or so ago I saw a coupon for $14.99 for a pair of 3-ton stands - I think it limited purchase to no more than 8 stands at that price. Also check the sales on their website - they are always dropping the price on jack stands - I assume when they have too many in stock. You can also get some pretty low prices on 6-ton stands if you watch those pages carefully. You'll want 8 stands - 4 of the short 3-ton and 4 of the taller 6-ton stands. Before you leave the store pick up a bottle of jack oil. When you unpack your jack it may be a little low on oil. Follow the instructions for filling and purging the air from your jack before you use it and don't overfill it.

Way back when I was in trade school the auto "shop" we automotive students had was in a basement of an office building. The shop had a pretty low ceiling. For two years we had to do everything without the benefit of a lift. Sure wish we'd had a few of those portable scissor lifts but I'm guessing that they thought pairing a bunch of teenagers with large pieces of steel moving up and down like huge shears was too unsafe. Because we had to do everything on stands, our instructor taught us a specific procedure to keep us safe while jacking cars and placing them on jack stands (Thanks Mr. Skura). This is it:

Start with two short stands and your jack. Chock the front and back of the rear wheels on both sides to prevent them from rolling forward or backwards, jack up the front of the car under the center of that heavy front crossmember and then place your stands under the frame at the front posts. Don't extend your stands any farther yet than necessary to get the front tires to clear the ground. Set the car on the stands and move to the rear. Use the center point of the differential to lift the rear just far enough to place two short stands under the rear corners of the frame just in front of the rear suspension. Again, don't extend the stand any higher than necessary to get the tires off the floor. Make sure that when you place your stands you are lying on your back on a creeper next to the car - not under it. Don't squat down with your head upright and your arm reaching under the car with your palm facing downward and your elbow up; you want to be looking up under the car at where you are placing that stand, and if the stand slips or breaks and the car drops you don't want it to fall on the back of your elbow, break your arm backwards at the elbow and drive you face-first into the floor. Once you have the car on all four short stands at the lowest adjustment point possible and you are sure that all four stands are resting firmly and level on the floor and the frame is positioned where it can't slip out of the stirrups on top of the stands, jack the front of the car up only enough to adjust each of the front stands two teeth and then move to the rear and do the same - only going two teeth of the stand neck per lift. This is so you don't put too much up or down angle on the stands and cause them to start leaning or their bases to want to slip. When you've got the 3-ton stands at their maximum height, change to the taller 6-ton stands. Start with the 6-ton stands at their lowest level, take just enough strain on the jack to lift the car far enough from the 3-ton stands to release and drop the neck and stirrup and then carefully place the 6-ton stand at the exact same point on each side. Repeat that process moving front to back and only raising the car far enough on each lift at that point to raise the stand neck one notch. Do this until you have the car at the height you want it and make sure that all four stands are extended exactly the same height.

It sounds like a long process but in reality it only takes a few minutes to accomplish. Once you're got it at the height you need it and you slide under, bring one of those 3-ton jack stands along with you when you slide underneath, extend it to maximum height and make sure you keep it within half an arms reach of you on one side of your torso. That way, if something weird happens and the car starts to fall you can scoot closer to the stand and won't be crushed. I don't know if bringing that stand along with you under the car will save you are not, 'cuz I've never had the misfortune to have to test it; but the theory is that the car might break your legs and pelvis but the stand should hold the car far enough up off your head and chest to enable you to live, breath and yell for help.

Hope this helps.

Deaf Mute
09-14-2013, 02:31 PM
My 1950 era MANLEY jack is in getting rebuilt... he got the seals manufactured (not cheap) but now found some kind of an issue with a ball type checkvalve that has a bad seat.... DARN IT... it might not be repairable after all!:( It would lift OK but was not holding the load very well. My Dad bought it used back in the early '50's. It has a T handle on it so when the car was in the air I could easily pull it around tight corners, etc. GADS I hope he can get it working, He told me that MANLEY was one of the first to "invent" the hydraulic floor jack as we know it. It is a model J-4.

Biggie
09-14-2013, 06:22 PM
Start with two short stands and your jack. Chock the front and back of the rear wheels on both sides to prevent them from rolling forward or backwards, jack up the front of the car under the center of that heavy front crossmember and then place your stands under the frame at the front posts. Don't extend your stands any farther yet than necessary to get the front tires to clear the ground. Set the car on the stands and move to the rear. Use the center point of the differential to lift the rear just far enough to place two short stands under the rear corners of the frame just in front of the rear suspension. Again, don't extend the stand any higher than necessary to get the tires off the floor. Make sure that when you place your stands you are lying on your back on a creeper next to the car - not under it. Don't squat down with your head upright and your arm reaching under the car with your palm facing downward and your elbow up; you want to be looking up under the car at where you are placing that stand, and if the stand slips or breaks and the car drops you don't want it to fall on the back of your elbow, break your arm backwards at the elbow and drive you face-first into the floor. Once you have the car on all four short stands at the lowest adjustment point possible and you are sure that all four stands are resting firmly and level on the floor and the frame is positioned where it can't slip out of the stirrups on top of the stands, jack the front of the car up only enough to adjust each of the front stands two teeth and then move to the rear and do the same - only going two teeth of the stand neck per lift. This is so you don't put too much up or down angle on the stands and cause them to start leaning or their bases to want to slip. When you've got the 3-ton stands at their maximum height, change to the taller 6-ton stands. Start with the 6-ton stands at their lowest level, take just enough strain on the jack to lift the car far enough from the 3-ton stands to release and drop the neck and stirrup and then carefully place the 6-ton stand at the exact same point on each side. Repeat that process moving front to back and only raising the car far enough on each lift at that point to raise the stand neck one notch. Do this until you have the car at the height you want it and make sure that all four stands are extended exactly the same height.

It sounds like a long process but in reality it only takes a few minutes to accomplish. Once you're got it at the height you need it and you slide under, bring one of those 3-ton jack stands along with you when you slide underneath, extend it to maximum height and make sure you keep it within half an arms reach of you on one side of your torso. That way, if something weird happens and the car starts to fall you can scoot closer to the stand and won't be crushed. I don't know if bringing that stand along with you under the car will save you are not, 'cuz I've never had the misfortune to have to test it; but the theory is that the car might break your legs and pelvis but the stand should hold the car far enough up off your head and chest to enable you to live, breath and yell for help.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for posting this solid technique for those brave enough to work under jackstands alone.

The only thing I would add is to get quality jack stands versus HF Brand X types. Although HF sells some decent stuff relying on HF products to save you life is scary.

hausdok
09-14-2013, 08:25 PM
The only thing I would add is to get quality jack stands versus HF Brand X types. Although HF sells some decent stuff relying on HF products to save you life is scary.[/QUOTE]

You're welcome,

The key is to not place one end of the car up on stands and then try and jack the other end from too steep of an angle. Do that with one set extended too high and the first set of stands wants to either tip or slip. Short increments and keeping the lift as level and even as possible is the way to go.

As far as the HFT quality; I dunno, I don't know that I can believe that without some kind of formalized testing to prove it.

Don't get me wrong; I love this country and I fervently want us to be the best at everything and to turn out the best products on the planet, but it's also an unhappy fact that we simply aren't the best at everything we do anymore because we no longer hold the technological edge we used to hold when it comes to manufacturing.

China is sinking huge chunks of money into modernizing their manufacturing sector. A friend of mine goes to China every year and spends most of his time there exploring their manufacturing and construction methods. He tells me that some of the technology they are using is the stuff that some plant managers here can only dream of acquiring. In China, an entrepreneur can go to the government and say he wants to open a plant manufacturing whatsis that will employ five hundred people. If the Chinese government likes what they see, the entrepreneur get a huge check with which to build and equip the most modern facility possible. It's their way of ensuring that manufacturer has the best chance of succeeding when going up against established manufacturing bases such as ours. We'd be foolish to dispute the fact that it's been working with so many of our companies moving operations out of the country in favor of cheaper manufacturing partners.

Remember when the typical jack stand available for do-it-yourselfers was a piece of thin steel pipe with a hold drilled through it with three steel straps welded to the side of that pipe at 120, 240 and 360 degrees, angled outward and then kept from spreading with another three pieces tack-welded to those - then the part that was extended was a slightly smaller steel pipe drilled full of holes with a piece of vent steel tacked on top and a steel dowel with a chain attached to it hung off the side? I bought a bunch of those from Sears back when I was a teenager because that was all that I could afford and all that was available to those who didn't shop from tool trucks in those days. Later, those were the only thing we service members could find available from the PX system for working on our own cars. They were made in America, cost me more than the HFT stands, were only rated for 1 ton and were a whole lot less robust than the stands HFT sells today.

Though I suspect that most here believe that the quality of the cast iron and steel in a HFT jack stand might not be where we think it should be, with modernized casting techniques and welding technologies it's probably way better than what many think it is and it might even be (gasp) equal to one purchased from an American company.

It would be interesting to see some laboratory comparison testing done on American versus Chinese tools to see exactly where they are today in terms of comparability. I'd also like to see American tools tested against the same top-of-the-line tools of 30 years ago to see if our own tool industry is producing better products than they were producing 30 years ago or whether they are stuck in neutral and haven't gotten better.

mmagic
09-14-2013, 08:40 PM
Depending what my objective is, if I can get by with just a couple of inches, I set the car on my car dollies. With my small garage, they are sure handy to shove the car to one side giving me 6 feet to actually work in.

LeoH
09-15-2013, 04:07 PM
Years ago some jerk jacked my Avanti with this kind of jack.........bent the hell out of my rear bumper................never said sorry or offered to replace:-(

The wagon has at least 4 dimples around the edges of the bumpers, front and rear on this wagon. I tried lifting the rear with the scissors jack and it just lifts the axle. There's got to be a trick to lifting the whole rear end with one.

FYI, I took a load of metal to the recycling site last week. Drive in, get a weight, unload the metal and the weight difference is what you're payment is based on. I noticed as I went to drive off the scale, the wagon showed 3060 lbs.

sals54
09-17-2013, 12:02 AM
The way to win with jack stands at Harbor Freight is to get the next step up for safety. If you need 5000 lb jack stands, then skip those and get the 10,000 lb ones instead. That way you are building in measure of safety over and above what the jack stand already has built in.
The same thing with floor jacks. If you need a 1.5 ton jack... don't even bother. Get the 3 ton and you'll have barely enough to be safe. Always step up the next level.

'66Commander
09-17-2013, 09:05 AM
In adition to jack and stands already mentioned, a got a set of portable hydraulic ramps that really has proven useful for a lot of work:

26982
Now that is cool!


Man could I use a set of those,I'll have to see if maybe Harbor Freight has something like that.
You'll have to let me know if you find any!

Check out this idea:
27743
You hook it up to your tailpipe.
Interesting on-the-go idea, as long as you don't need to service the engine.
Link:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004P9GX9O/?tag=059-20

And an example of why you put the parking brake on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBg10gw277o

SScopelli
09-20-2013, 03:53 PM
is this thread really still going on?

sals54
09-20-2013, 11:12 PM
Of course its still going on.... there's always Newbs here who are getting their first car, or their first hobby car. Some of the folks here are having a "first time" experience with cars and mechanics. Its a good idea to share all sorts of ideas that some of us take for granted, to those who may not want to learn the hard way. Learning the right way to jack up a car and use jack stands is something I do without even thinking about it. For the novice, or for the uninitiated, one may think that a floor jack is safe to use while crawling under a car. Especially if its "just for a second". That could mean the difference between life and death.
So, naturally, we want all our new (and old) Studebaker drivers to be safe while tinkering under the cars.

Kurt
09-21-2013, 07:14 AM
Some day I am going to get a lift..... In the mean time this is what I do. Once I get the car up on stands, I walk away from it for a few hours. I will shake it from time to time, and look at the position of the stands a few times to make sure all is well. Most accidents, problems, issues, for me happened because I was in a hurry. I hate getting under vehicle, so This is what I doto feel safer.

DEEPNHOCK
09-21-2013, 07:44 AM
All great replies.... Safety first!

I have a 4 post lift that has spoiled me beyond all recognition.

Nowadays I roll a car onto the 4 post lift and raise it enough to pull the trailer up to/under the lift and roll the car onto the trailer (and vice versa).
One man loading. Slow. Secure. Safe. No winching on and rolling downhill to unload.
Just keep a wheel chock in front and roll the tire.

Oh, I also use the lift to sharpen mower blades.
Lower the lift to about knee high.
Hook a sling strap to the nose of the tractor.
Raise the lift until the tractor is at about a 45 degree angle.
Safety latch the 4 post lift.
Sit on the rollaround stool and remove the blades with an impact wrench.
No laying down and wrenching anything off anymore.

Looks kind of funny when you see the push mower hanging by the handle, but...what the heck, why not?:whome:
Jeffhttp://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/images/icons/icon6.png

StudeMann
09-21-2013, 04:50 PM
OH MY!:ohmy: Does that mean I need to get rid of all those concrete block pillars holding up my house and replace them with jack stands????:rolleyes::)

Only if the concrete blocks are not mortared together and a concentrated heavy load is bearing on a 1" long section of one of the 1" wide webs of the block. THAT'S when you might run into a problem. Hopefully that's not how your house was constructed.

rodnutrandy
09-21-2013, 09:02 PM
I use jack stands or Ramps after jacking car up. I have 2 sets of ramps, but use the ones built with angle iron ,reason being ,I can put a 2x4 or chunk of metal through the angle iron that will not let car roll off the ramps. side note When I built my pole barn ,and poured a cement floor, I put 4 pipes down in concrete so I could put some u bolts in them to hold my ramps from sliding. Been here 31 years and have never used them as intended, but really come in handy when I need to use a come a long to pull something in the pole barn.

hausdok
10-06-2013, 01:33 PM
I know this will bring out the haters, but I thought I'd post it anyway.

If anyone is looking for a good deal and isn't squeamish about going to Harbor Freight for fear that someone will see them in there, HFT has a rapid pump 3-ton floor jack for sale on right now for $69.99 with a coupon - limit 5 to a customer. The same jack is priced at $89.99 in the monthly inside track club catalog. The coupon is good until February 6, 2014; so, if you could use one, two, or three, but money is tight, stick a pickle jar up on the shelf of your shop, label it "Jack Money - Expires Feb 6, 2014" and drop $10 into the jar every week until you've got what you need. (More about the coupon later.).

In the same flier, they have the 3-ton heavy duty jack stands on sale for $15.99 a pair - limit 6 pairs per customer. The same jack stands are priced at $24.99 in the monthly catalog. They will be on sale for $21.99 at their 50% off sale from Tuesday Oct. 15th through Monday October 28th but they only post this coupon at this price about every two months. The good thing is that if you can find it the $15.99 coupon is available until February 14th, 2014; so, cut it out and stick it in that pickle jar until you're ready to use it.

The prices posted by HFT in the coupons and fliers that are in the Sunday paper and in the back of Popular Mechanics magazine almost always have prices that are lower than Inside Track Club member or Parking Lot or 50% off sale prices. It's not hard to find them in Popular Mechanics; if you have a subscription they are there every month, but HFT is cagey with the Sunday paper - they alternate between putting them in the Parade Magazine supplement and Smart Source Magazine - that annoying packet of pages of coupons for everything from Hamburgers to cheese straighteners, and they only drop the prices really low about every two months. Here, last week the flier was in Parade Magazine; this week I found it in the Smart Source packet - figure out what the pattern is and you won't miss one.

The jack stands are small, with a reach of only 11-3/4" to 16-3/4". The next step up is the 6-ton stands but HFT doesn't drop the price on those very far or very often. Retail is $79.99 and the regular sale price is $46.99 but you can order as many of them as you want online right now at $39.99 a pair.

pbrown
10-06-2013, 01:49 PM
If you can't afford a 4-post lift or don't have the height for one, a small portable hydraulic scissor lift is probably the safest way to go. Harbor Freight sells one for $1400 (Well, actually it's $1399.99). Click this link (http://www.harborfreight.com/6000-lb-capacity-scissor-lift-91315.html). When you're not using it you can store it standing up against the side of the garage out of the way (On second thought, strike that - the danged thing weighs over 800 lbs!). You need 7 inches of clearance beneath the car to drive over it and it will lift to a maximum height of 54 inches bearing on the frame and leaving the front and rear suspension hanging free.

Harbor Freight has a 25% off coupon in my paper. I'm considering one of these scissor lifts at the $1K resultant price.

Among other things, I'd love to be able to get far enough under my car to look up and see where the leaks are at the back of my engine!

hausdok
10-06-2013, 01:55 PM
That coupon might work. They usually try to exclude some stuff but the fine print on that 25% coupon doesn't say anything about lifts; it only addressed floor jacks.

Corvanti
10-06-2013, 02:47 PM
you may also use the link for coupons, signup for emails, monthly sale mailers, etc. : http://www.harborfreight.com/#

also order online if there is not a HF nearby.

as i've stated before, i'd rather have Craftsman, Snap-on sockets/wrenches, etc. tools for "daily" use, but for most everything else HF is fine...