Electrical: Starter question

[erik64]

1964 GT Hawk engine #RS1414 (no supercharger) Automatic transmission. The starter drive lost it's teeth about 3/8" in on the gear. I checked the ring gear and it looks good. Starter number is Prestolite MDU-7026. It has the appropriate 2-3/4" nose associated with an automatic Trans. It appears the PO has had similar problems, as I found bills to this. Before I order another starter from our vendors, I need to know what I should have in here. I read (in your archives) that a MDY starter should be used on an Avanti engine. I'm wondering if this is the culprit? If I choose to just replace the starter drive. I also read, in your archives, that a Standard SDN-60 or NAPA 656-1101 might be the correct drive. Is this number correct for the automatic starter? Do you know of any reduction gear starters that would work here? Anyway, what would you guys do? Thanks

[brngarage]

Sounds like the starter drive isn't extending in far enough to make full contact with the ring gear. Can you post a picture of the teeth on the bad starter drive?

[skyway]

My first thought is that the bendix is not fully engaging, and needs to have more shims under the rear cover plate.
The other thought is to be sure your car has the proper shouldered bolts holding the starter in place.

[erik64]

You guys definitely hit on something. I went out and checked the bolts. The top is a shoulder bolt with good fit but the bottom is a standard grade 6 without a shoulder that protrudes into the starter housing. Allowing quite a bit of side play. Furthermore, whoever rebuilt the transmission didn't re-install the lower converter cover. (You can see the converter and ring gear) Am I correct in assuming this cover would act as a shim for the starter also? I'll post a picture as soon as I figure out how to do so. You guys are great thanks for the tips. I guess i'll need to get that cover and those bolts before I wreck another starter drive.

[skyway]

Oh good!
If you do find yourself looking at the shims on the tail end of the starter, be sure to pay attention to the location of the fiber or perhaps phenolic insulator washer.

[jackb]

I became frustrated with the rebuilt electrics around 15 years ago. Seems rebuild houses were simply rebuilding most units for parades or nice weather-only restorations. Rebuilt expectations being for a low mileage, low usage car. I've had starters missing thrust washers, no center bearing plates on generators...you get the picture....another important possibility is the swapping of another bell housing to the engine. A common mistake made by shade tree mechanics and others. If not dialed in, you'll get jumping out of gear, flex plate cracks, and ground out drives. BTW, you need to rotate the torque converter around a complete cycle to be sure the teeth aren't damaged. Usually they are, and tho they are tougher grade steel, after several starter drives those teeth will go too.

[erik64]

Anyone have a lower starter shoulder bolt, for a 1964 GT Hawk with RS 289, for sale? I can also use that lower Flightomatic cover. Especially if it's necessary to mount the starter. Studebaker Internation gave me 2 contacts . But I haven't contacted them yet.Thanks

[StudeRich]

I can't believe some idiot would mount a Starter without the mounting plate. That is not just a dust cover, it MOUNTS the Starter!

[studebaker-R2-4-me]

Your best to contact Tom Karkiewicz in South Bend. He will have the proper cover plate, shouldered bolts, side cover and the additional bottom cover and a good used MDU starter. I will find Tom's number and private message you. Look at the top of the page under notifications.

Allen

[erik64]

Isn't that something!!! I thought so! Thanks to Studebaker International, I got in touch with Tom Karkiewicz. He confirmed what you said. He's sending me the necessary parts.

[studebaker-R2-4-me]

Glad you have it all sorted out. We 1964 Hawk owners have to stick together!

Allen

[erik64]

You got that right Allen! This board has been wonderful in sorting things out. I wonder what other butcher jobs I'm going to find. I took the advice of some members and ordered the shop manual. By the way, your hawk is sweet. Mine is White with a black interior. I'll post a picture as soon as I figure out how to do that. :-)

[RadioRoy]

As important as the shop manual is, the chassis parts manual and body parts manuals are even more revealing when it comes to determining part locations, part names, part numbers, and how everything fits together. They are loaded with high quality illustrations by professional graphic artists.

I highly recommend buying both parts manuals for your car. You will be amazed at the information contained therein, and if you use them, the number of questions they will answer and the number of mistakes you will avoid.

[erik64]

Jackb, I think I lucked out with the ring gear. I gave it a pretty good inspection, but guess what? This rebuilt starter is missing thrust washers, just like you said!! The shop manual shows one on each side of the armature. Are they fiber or steel? You guys are right you need the manual.