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View Full Version : Cool/Heat: Bad Freeze Plugs 1956 Skyhawk 289 - 4 Barrel



Jerry Johnson
08-17-2013, 02:30 PM
Been dripping anti-freeze on the floor all summer, getting much worse lately. Put the Stude in the shop yesterday and wiped everything down under the engine and then started it and let it warm up. Then I could see the freeze plugs (drivers side) front and back were dripping. Today I drained the fluid and removed the front plug. It was brass and most likely were installed when the engine was rebuilt in 2002 (before I got the car). Here comes my problem.

The top 1/3 of the flange is missing and when I cleaned the hole up with a wire brush, it became obvious the hole (mating plug surface) is not smooth, or completely round. Is this a normal condition for an older block?

Will the standard brass plugs seal in these conditions?
Might I have a better chance if I used the "Dorman Brass expandable Core Plugs"?
Do I need to pull the engine and grind the flange out and used pipe threaded plugs?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Jerry Johnson

mmagic
08-17-2013, 03:09 PM
When I did the Champ some of the plug holes were rough. Because the cooling system is very low pressure compared to today's cars, I use "Permatex 1" a hard setting sealant and put behind the new plugs. It's not leaking.

While your there its an opportunity to rod, sand flush and perhaps vinegar soak if it hasn't been done before.

PackardV8
08-17-2013, 04:11 PM
The top 1/3 of the flange is missing and when I cleaned the hole up with a wire brush, it became obvious the hole (mating plug surface) is not smooth, or completely round. Is this a normal condition for an older block?No. That hole has been abused.


Will the standard brass plugs seal in these conditions?
Unknowable. If it took eleven years for a brass plug to begin to drip, it might seal up again.


I have a better chance if I used the "Dorman Brass expandable Core Plugs"?I'd probably go with the expandable.

jack vines
Do I need to pull the engine and grind the flange out and used pipe threaded plugs?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Jerry Johnson[/QUOTE]

Warren Webb
08-17-2013, 06:15 PM
I would use the expandable plugs as a last resort. I had put them on my 61 Champ. Then a couple years later had it blow out on me while getting on the freeway. Try the brass plug first with Permatex. Tap it in with either a flat brass punch or a 3/8 inch drive socket. Don't use excessive force- the block is only cast iron, just enough to flatten the plug.

shifter4
08-17-2013, 06:55 PM
To each his own , but I have no fear of using Dorman rubber expandable plugs .
I have used them for 100,000 + miles. They can be easily checked after a few heat cycles
and snugged up a bit if necessary. Do not overtighten in the first place. Rubber is forgiving
on a somewhat rough sealing surface
I have them now in my race engine , and as stated, for many, many miles on the road in
several Studes.

studegary
08-17-2013, 07:14 PM
These are not "freeze plugs". They are core plugs that allow the casting sand to be removed. It is true that if a block freezes up that these plugs will be the first to go. With that said, how many will let their Studebaker V8s freeze. I have used the expandable plugs, both metal and rubber, many times with good results. I find them especially good in some locations where the engine is in the car and not out of the car.

SN-60
08-17-2013, 07:52 PM
To each his own , but I have no fear of using Dorman rubber expandable plugs .
I have used them for 100,000 + miles. They can be easily checked after a few heat cycles
and snugged up a bit if necessary. Do not overtighten in the first place. Rubber is forgiving
on a somewhat rough sealing surface
I have them now in my race engine , and as stated, for many, many miles on the road in
several Studes.

I second this for a block in this condition.

RareBird
09-03-2013, 08:45 PM
I just had this happen to me on Sunday. Was headed to a show and just as I got on the entrance ramp I heard something Ping under the hood and instantly smelled antifreeze. Engine has less than 300 miles on it and I had a local shop rebuild the motor. I'm going to put in an expandable one for now

Jerry Johnson
10-18-2013, 10:41 AM
Final solution to my problem. Pulled the engine, ground out the remaining flanges, scrapped the heck out of the rear of block at the clean out holes, massive flushing, threaded the core plug holes and put in 1 1/4 inch brass plugs from grangers.

PackardV8
10-18-2013, 11:15 AM
Congrats on doing it as well as it can be done. You'll be glad you did.

Just a correction of a common misconception.


These are not "freeze plugs". They are core plugs that allow the casting sand to be removed. It is true that if a block freezes up that these plugs will be the first to go.

Correct, they are core plugs; but no, they don't provide any protection or relief from freezing. I just got in a Packard V8 block which had been filled with pure water. It is the worst-burst I've ever seen. Both sides of the block are completely blown out. All six core plugs are still in place. Not one of them moved before the sides of the block gave way.

jack vines

SN-60
10-18-2013, 11:36 AM
Congrats on doing it as well as it can be done. You'll be glad you did.

Just a correction of a common misconception.



Correct, they are core plugs; but no, they don't provide any protection or relief from freezing. I just got in a Packard V8 block which had been filled with pure water. It is the worst-burst I've ever seen. Both sides of the block are completely blown out. All six core plugs are still in place. Not one of them moved before the sides of the block gave way.

jack vines

Hate to lay this one on You Jack ....but the blown out block sides are not uncommon on Packard V8 engines that have been neglected and allowed to freeze over. I've seen many engines treated this way up here in New England....but most engines will pop their freeze plugs when coolant freezes and expands. Studebaker V8's will almost without fail pop their freeze plugs before the block cracks.....but Packard V8's, in particular, and probably due to what I believe was a very thin casting, practically EXPLODE before the freeze plugs 'pop'. I have purchased parts from three Packard V8's, a 374 and two 352's, all with burst sides due to freeze ups....AND ALL THE FREEZE PLUGS IN THESE RUINED ENGINES NEVER MOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Hard to believe, but absolutely true)

StudeRich
10-18-2013, 05:11 PM
Final solution to my problem. Pulled the engine, ground out the remaining flanges, scrapped the heck out of the rear of block at the clean out holes, massive flushing, threaded the core plug holes and put in 1 1/4 inch brass plugs from grangers.

Are you sure they weren't 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" Plugs? They started out at 1 1/2 inches with the shoulder that you cut out.

WOW! That is a beautiful job Jerry. That looks a bit beyond the usual half day job of popping the Core plugs out and replacing them! :D Way to go. :!:

PackardV8
10-18-2013, 08:12 PM
Hate to lay this one on You Jack ....but the blown out block sides are not uncommon on Packard V8 engines that have been neglected and allowed to freeze over. I've seen many engines treated this way up here in New England....but most engines will pop their freeze plugs when coolant freezes and expands. Studebaker V8's will almost without fail pop their freeze plugs before the block cracks.....but Packard V8's, in particular, and probably due to what I believe was a very thin casting, practically EXPLODE before the freeze plugs 'pop'. I have purchased parts from three Packard V8's, a 374 and two 352's, all with burst sides due to freeze ups....AND ALL THE FREEZE PLUGS IN THESE RUINED ENGINES NEVER MOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Hard to believe, but absolutely true)

Well, Ed, you've found yet another way to run down the quality and engineering of the Packard V8.

No, it's not just the Packard. I've seen many Studebaker V8s with freeze-cracked blocks where the core plugs didn't move.

Each spring here in the frozen northwest, my engine machinist gets a trailerload of freeze-cracked boat engines from the local marina. These are Buick V6, Chevy V6 and V8, I4, Ford V8, the occasional Volvo and whatever. They all have broken blocks with the core plugs still in place.

jack vines

53commander
10-18-2013, 08:32 PM
You did a very nice job with those pipe plugs it looks great and will last without worry. The original issue with the flange is not a big problem really. The cup style core plugs are made to flatten out and seal against the sides of the hole, think of the flange as more of a guide or as a way to let the plug expand evenly when it is hammered in. I always use the round end of a ball peen hammer against the center of the plug and tap it with another ball peen, not really hard so there is no danger of damaging the tools. as long as you dont tap the plug past its center point the seal will be excellent. Just adding my 2 cents like I said you did a great job with those pipe plugs.

SN-60
10-18-2013, 10:35 PM
Well, Ed, you've found yet another way to run down the quality and engineering of the Packard V8.

No, it's not just the Packard. I've seen many Studebaker V8s with freeze-cracked blocks where the core plugs didn't move.

Each spring here in the frozen northwest, my engine machinist gets a trailerload of freeze-cracked boat engines from the local marina. These are Buick V6, Chevy V6 and V8, I4, Ford V8, the occasional Volvo and whatever. They all have broken blocks with the core plugs still in place.

jack vines

Facts are facts...And I'm really not trying to run down the "Quality and Engineering" of Packard V8's.....Packard did that themselves by releasing a flawed engine to the public. "Ask The Man Who Bought A New One" Jack! And please drop the 'Core plug' thing.....When one of these little round beauties 'pops' out from a freeze up saving a Studebaker, etc. engine block....They become 'FREEZE PLUGS'!!!!!

SN-60
10-18-2013, 10:42 PM
I just got in a Packard V8 block which had been filled with pure water. It is the worst-burst I've ever seen. Both sides of the block are completely blown out. All six core plugs are still in place. Not one of them moved before the sides of the block gave way.

jack vines

Just thought You might want to re-read Your earlier comment Jack. NUFF SAID!!

rkapteyn
10-19-2013, 08:49 AM
Jack
Is there a shortage of Packard V8 blocks since so many blew their sides out?
Robert Kapteyn.

PackardV8
10-19-2013, 09:09 AM
Jack
Is there a shortage of Packard V8 blocks since so many blew their sides out?
Robert Kapteyn.

Bob, I've got a boneyard full of Packard V8 blocks which have survived fifty-seven years now. That I mentioned the current Packard in the shop was just to indicate core plugs aren't freeze plugs. The Packard V8 is no more susceptible to freeze damage than any other.

As you well know, any engine can freeze and burst the block. Core plugs were never designed or intended to protect from freezing. I'm just now salvaging parts from a '56 Studebaker 259" which was left without sufficient antifreeze. The block is cracked on both sides and all the core plugs are still in place.

jack vines

SN-60
10-19-2013, 02:32 PM
[QUOTE=PackardV8;789249 I just got in a Packard V8 block which had been filled with pure water. It is the worst-burst I've ever seen. Both sides of the block are completely blown out. All six core plugs are still in place. Not one of them moved before the sides of the block gave way.

jack vines[/QUOTE]


Faulty engine blocks Jack.....Yet another problem Packard would have rectified had they more time.

PackardV8
10-19-2013, 03:28 PM
Faulty engine blocks Jack.....Yet another problem Packard would have rectified had they more time.

I say all engine blocks crack when frozen; can't name one I haven't seen cracked. Back comes, "Packards have faulty engine blocks."

Studebaker blocks crack when frozen. Back comes, "Packards have faulty engine blocks."

Cummins diesel blocks crack when frozen. "Packards have faulty engine blocks."

As Chief Joseph said, "I am tired; my heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight (with SN-60) no more forever."

jack vines

DEEPNHOCK
10-19-2013, 05:05 PM
Facts are facts...And I'm really not trying to run down the "Quality and Engineering" of Packard V8's.....Packard did that themselves by releasing a flawed engine to the public. "Ask The Man Who Bought A New One" Jack! And please drop the 'Core plug' thing.....When one of these little round beauties 'pops' out from a freeze up saving a Studebaker, etc. engine block....They become 'FREEZE PLUGS'!!!!!

WRONG!
I'll go with Wikipedia. I know they leak :p
Nuff said!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_plug (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_plug)


Core Plugs[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Core_plug&action=edit&section=1)]Core plugs, are usually metal cups that fill the sand casting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_casting) core (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_(manufacturing)) holes found on water-cooled internal combustion engines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine). They are often wrongly called Welsh plugs, frost plugs or freeze plugs.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_plug#cite_note-1)
Sand cores are used to form the internal cavities when the engine block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_block) or cylinder head (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_head)(s) is cast. These cavities are usually the coolant passages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_cooling). Holes are left in the casting to facilitate the removal of the sand after the casting has cooled.
In some high-performance engines the core plugs are large diameter pipe plugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_plug).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_plug#cite_note-2)
Core plugs can often be a source of leaks due to corrosion caused by cooling system water.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_plug#cite_note-3) Ease of replacement depends on accessibility. In many cases the plug area will be difficult to reach and using a mallet to perform maintenance or replacement will be nearly impossible without special facilities. Expanding rubber plugs are available as replacements when access is a problem.
Welch plug[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Core_plug&action=edit&section=2)]The Welch plug,(misnomer: Welsh Plugs), is a thin, domed, disc of ferrous metal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrous_metal) which is pushed, convex side out, into against an internal shoulder in the casting holes. Alternatively a non-ferrous metal such as brass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass) offers improved corrosion prevention. The plug is a domed disk fitted against a shoulder in the core hole. When struck with a hammer, the dome collapses and the disk expands to seal the core. Other core plugs have a dish design, so that when pressed into the casting hole the tapered sides form the seal.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_plug#cite_note-4)
According to Nevin Hubbard of the M.D. Hubbard Spring Company, the Welch plug was originally designed in the 1900s by the Welch Brothers of the Welch Motor Car Company of Pontiac, Michigan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac,_Michigan).
Hubbard claims that "at that time core holes in the engine blocks were fitted with pipe plugs. During one of these run-ins a pipe plug backed out. In order to get back on the road one of the brothers drove a quarter or half dollar into the hole. From this they developed the Welch plug, some with the help of my Great Grandfather Martin Hubbard. They then patented the plug and the M.D. Hubbard Spring Company become the sole manufacturer of the Welch plug for the life of the patent."[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_plug#cite_note-5)
Freeze plug[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Core_plug&action=edit&section=3)]A true freeze plug is an expansion plug located in the side of an engine block that is supposed to protect the block against freeze damage. Water expands when it turns to ice, and if the coolant does not have enough antifreeze (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze) protection it can freeze and crack the engine block. The freeze plugs (there are usually several) are supposed to pop out under such conditions to relieve the pressure on the block.
As far as can be determined this is an "urban legend". No manufacturer has come forward and stated that the purpose of the holes in the side of any engine block are there for freeze protection. The holes are simply core plugs.

It is possible, and even likely, that freezing water will push a core plug out. If the water doesn't freeze solid it's possible that there will be no damage to the block, but in most cases of a "hard freeze" the water jackets in the block will be cracked as well. It is a lucky person who finds core plugs pushed out due to freezing water with no block damage.
A variety of block heater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater) called a "freeze plug heater" can be installed, replacing one of the freeze (core) plugs, to warm engine coolant (and therefore the engine) before start up.

SN-60
10-19-2013, 05:23 PM
[QUOTE=DEEPNHOCK;789671][B][COLOR=#000080
A true freeze plug is an expansion plug located in the side of an engine block that is supposed to protect the block against freeze damage.

It is possible, and even likely, that freezing water will push a core plug out.

Thanks Deep! I was wondering when You'd jump in. This, of course is what a 'FREEZE (or core plug if You will) is intended to do. Hopefully Jack will read this, and once again ,thanks for helping Me make My point. As Jack stated, the Packard V8 He brought into His shop had its sides burst wide open due to a freeze up. These blocks are actually weaker than their expansion, or core, or FREEZE plugs!!

Jerry Forrester
10-19-2013, 06:41 PM
Can the Chief Cat Herder change the name of this thread to "SN-60 v PackardV8?

PlainBrownR2
10-19-2013, 06:50 PM
Soooo, I'm just gonna ignore my basic Physics education here about water being indifferent to what kind of block passage that it's inhabiting, and that it expands when it freezes no matter what, because there's something magical about this not happening in a Studebaker block!

Between you two, I have had this happen not to a block, but to a 259 head. Engine must have had water in it for an extended period of time sometime in the past, because when I put them on the '55's 289, the antifreeze found the split in the intake passage, and proceeded to drain the radiator through the split and into the crankcase! The whatever plugs that were in the engine, didn't move! :rolleyes:

DEEPNHOCK
10-19-2013, 07:24 PM
I just checked the Studebaker parts manual (that I have).
The parts used on both the six cylinder Studebaker engine, and the V8 engine are not called freeze plugs, or called core plugs.
They are called (for the 259, 289, and Jet Thrust engines):
Plug, Water Jacket Qty:6 1&1/2" diameter P/N 1539038 and P/N 1550386 (Note 19 and 20, which is a year and s/n split)

Now, Ed.....
If you are going to take the complete Wikipedia page I cited...with link for verification, and cut an paste one or two lines out of context, make sure you cut and paste this section back into your reply:

As far as can be determined this is an "urban legend". No manufacturer has come forward and stated that the purpose of the holes in the side of any engine block are there for freeze protection. The holes are simply core plugs.





[QUOTE=DEEPNHOCK;789671][B][COLOR=#000080]
A true freeze plug is an expansion plug located in the side of an engine block that is supposed to protect the block against freeze damage.

It is possible, and even likely, that freezing water will push a core plug out.

Thanks Deep! I was wondering when You'd jump in. This, of course is what a 'FREEZE (or core plug if You will) is intended to do. Hopefully Jack will read this, and once again ,thanks for helping Me make My point. As Jack stated, the Packard V8 He brought into His shop had its sides burst wide open due to a freeze up. These blocks are actually weaker than their expansion, or core, or FREEZE plugs!!

DEEPNHOCK
10-19-2013, 07:30 PM
Challenge for SN60 (Ed)....

Produce some facts about your statement about Studebaker "freeze plugs", even if indirect.
But they must be from Studebaker.

This is not a slam, but a challenge.
I did some homework and have some information.
But let's let Ed do some of the legwork for his statements...
Jeffhttp://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/images/icons/icon6.png

SN-60
10-19-2013, 09:35 PM
Well, I can give examples that I've personally experienced....but beyond that You can either believe what I'm saying or not. I have no reason to make up stories about this! Years ago I allowed a pretty nice 289 in a 1956 Studebaker Sky Hawk to freeze up. I thought I had enough anti-freeze in it but I definitely did not!....After starting the car the morning after a 10' F. night, coolant began to pour out of the engine from underneath as the engine warmed and thawed. I crawled under the car and found that the rearmost FREEZE PLUG on the right bank had pushed out and pieces of ice were still coming out of its hole....BUT NO CRACKED BLOCK which was a wonderful thing at the time since I didn't have the $$ or place to work to change out that engine. I bought one 1 1/2" freeze plug, installed it, added antifreeze, and I was on My way.
I could definitely go on about how the Packard V8's I've owned or worked on do not seem to have much strength in their engine block sides when it comes to a freeze up.....I've seen three crack to pieces....and in Jack Vines own words, He was amazed at the amount of damage there was to the sides of a Packard V8 block He owns due to a freeze up. Packard V8's definitely have numerous problems.....I haven't even mentioned the vibration damper issue yet!! And DEEP....and I say this good naturedly...what would a man from Georgia know about engine freeze ups anyway????? Move to New England and believe Me YOU will be calling these little round safety valves FREEZE PLUGS too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh! and GO RED SOX....................YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PlainBrownR2
10-19-2013, 09:44 PM
And DEEP....and I say this good naturedly...what would a man from Georgia know about engine freeze ups anyway????? Move to New England and believe Me YOU will be calling these little round safety valves FREEZE PLUGS too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


All those years living up here around Chicago, gone to waste ;).....................

DEEPNHOCK
10-19-2013, 09:54 PM
Well... I asked for a specific Studebaker factory reference, and you have not responded except for anecdotes from your past.
And you know nothing about me, or where I am from. You make statements about things, and about others without knowledge.
I have spent more time working on Stude's in the snow below zero than I can remember.
Quitcher sideline quarterbacking and nitpicking and add something useful to the forum.
I will call the block coolant plugs by their proper name.
They are NOT safety valves.
But, you go and play your games, and root for your team...
Have fun!
Jeffhttp://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/images/icons/icon6.png
PS: My challenge to you still stands. You might be surprised...But so far, you have not even attempted to try.
And, if you'd like...I will send you, at no charge, a Prestone coolant freeze level checker, so you won't have to go through the embarrassment of freezing up a rare block because you don't know how much freeze protection you need up in the northeast.


Well, I can give examples that I've personally experienced....but beyond that You can either believe what I'm saying or not. I have no reason to make up stories about this! Years ago I allowed a pretty nice 289 in a 1956 Studebaker Sky Hawk to freeze up. I thought I had enough anti-freeze in it but I definitely did not!....After starting the car the morning after a 10' F. night, coolant began to pour out of the engine from underneath as the engine warmed and thawed. I crawled under the car and found that the rearmost FREEZE PLUG on the right bank had pushed out and pieces of ice were still coming out of its hole....BUT NO CRACKED BLOCK which was a wonderful thing at the time since I didn't have the $$ or place to work to change out that engine. I bought one 1 1/2" freeze plug, installed it, added antifreeze, and I was on My way.
I good definitely go on about how the Packard V8's I've owned or worked on do not seem to have much strength in their engine block sides when it comes to a freeze up.....I've seen three crack to pieces....and in Jack Vines own words, He was amazed at the amount of damage there was to the sides of a Packard V8 block He owns due to a freeze up. Packard V8's definitely have numerous problems.....I haven't even mentioned the vibration damper issue yet!! And DEEP....and I say this good naturedly...what would a man from Georgia know about engine freeze ups anyway????? Move to New England and believe Me YOU will be calling these little round safety valves FREEZE PLUGS too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh! and GO RED SOX....................YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SN-60
10-19-2013, 09:58 PM
Time to take a deep breath Jeff.....life is too short to get as worked up as You seem to be over a simple difference of opinion.

DEEPNHOCK
10-19-2013, 10:07 PM
LOL....Yep.
Yer' right!
Yer' quite right.
Light in here when the light shines bright, huh...
My challenge to you still stands.
It's really a good one too... Might have worked in your favor, er...difference of opinion.
But that's ok...
Until next time!:whome:



Time to take a deep breath Jeff.....life is too short to get as worked up as You seem to be over a simple difference of opinion.

SN-60
10-19-2013, 11:10 PM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Red Sox Win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! World Series starts Wed!....... Red Sox#1!! ..................... Boston Strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ya!!!

bezhawk
10-20-2013, 09:00 AM
You know the Cardinals are gonna whip the Sox.......give it up.
:!!:

SN-60
10-20-2013, 10:34 AM
you know the cardinals are gonna whip the sox.......give it up.
:!!:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SAY WHAT ??????????!!!!!!!!!!!????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those Cardinals will probably FREEZE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (oops!)

53commander
10-20-2013, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by PlainBrownR2 "The whatever plugs that were in the engine, didn't move!"

I nominate the official term for the plugs be changed to "whatever plugs". Any seconds?

SN-60
10-20-2013, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by PlainBrownR2 "The whatever plugs that were in the engine, didn't move!"

I nominate the official term for the plugs be changed to "whatever plugs". Any seconds?

I SECOND that motion. (As long as My FLAPS understands the term!)

PlainBrownR2
10-20-2013, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by PlainBrownR2 "The whatever plugs that were in the engine, didn't move!"

I nominate the official term for the plugs be changed to "whatever plugs". Any seconds?


Hey, it's the best term I could come with, between people calling them freeze plugs.......core plugs...........freeze plugs.......core plugs! So I'll just call them whatever plugs, so everyone's happy! They keep what's in, in, and whatever's out, out!! :lol:

DEEPNHOCK
10-20-2013, 05:15 PM
I'm surprised.
Studebaker called them 'water jacket plugs' in the Studebaker parts manual*.
Everything and anything else should be blasphemy to the Stude crowd:whome::whome:
Jeffhttp://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/images/icons/icon6.png
* (with one exception)



Hey, it's the best term I could come with, between people calling them freeze plugs.......core plugs...........freeze plugs.......core plugs! So I'll just call them whatever plugs, so everyone's happy! They keep what's in, in, and whatever's out, out!! [/COLOR]:lol:

Flashback
10-20-2013, 07:24 PM
This brings to mind some other slang words. Such as Channel locks, for all slip jpint pliers. Allen wrench for hex wrench. Vice grips for all locking pliers. Cresent wrench for all adjustable wrenches. I think we all know what is meant when core plugs, welch plugs, and freeze plugs are mentioned. As for as them preventing freezing, yes and no. My Dad and myself ran a salvage yard for years. I have seen many engines freeze, all makes, over the years. The plugs popped out on some and didn't bust the blocks. On others they didn't. No certain one's.

SN-60
10-20-2013, 07:34 PM
This brings to mind some other slang words. Such as Channel locks, for all slip jpint pliers. Allen wrench for hex wrench. Vice grips for all locking pliers. Cresent wrench for all adjustable wrenches. I think we all know what is meant when core plugs, welch plugs, and freeze plugs are mentioned. As for as them preventing freezing, yes and no. My Dad and myself ran a salvage yard for years. I have seen many engines freeze, all makes, over the years. The plugs popped out on some and didn't bust the blocks. On others they didn't. No certain one's.

I agree with You Flashback. But, once again, anyone who hasn't seen the sides of a Packard V8's engine block crack into many separate pieces from a freeze up is really missing something!

JoeHall
10-20-2013, 07:38 PM
This brings to mind some other slang words. Such as Channel locks, for all slip jpint pliers. Allen wrench for hex wrench. Vice grips for all locking pliers. Cresent wrench for all adjustable wrenches. I think we all know what is meant when core plugs, welch plugs, and freeze plugs are mentioned. As for as them preventing freezing, yes and no. My Dad and myself ran a salvage yard for years. I have seen many engines freeze, all makes, over the years. The plugs popped out on some and didn't bust the blocks. On others they didn't. No certain one's.
Are they slang, or just different terminology, with "correct" depending on geo region, age group, ethnicity, etc. ?

If we are looking to S-P documentation for correctness, the Hawk side grills were referred to as, "nostrils" in some of S-P's meeting minutes during the 1960s, provided here about a year ago. I have never heard of them referred to as that, except in those meeting minutes, but does that mean we are wrong in whatever we choose to call them nowdays ?

SN-60
10-20-2013, 07:43 PM
Are they slang, or just different terminology, with "correct" depending on geo region, age group, ethnicity, etc. ?

If we are looking to S-P documentation for correctness, the Hawk side grills were referred to as, "nostrils" in some of S-P's meeting minutes during the 1960s, provided here about a year ago. I have never heard of them referred to as that, except in those meeting minutes, but does that mean we are wrong in whatever we choose to call them nowdays ?

I guess that depends on who's looking Joe!

rkapteyn
10-21-2013, 11:55 AM
Have'nt you guys anything better to do than to yak about the propper name for freeze plugs?
Robert Kapteyn?

Warren Webb
10-21-2013, 02:15 PM
Sometimes we get a bit carried away with terms such as motors vs. engines. I however a couple years ago ran into one term that I had never heard before when a mechanic referred to a part as a "radiator saddle". I had no clue to what he could be talking about at first but after thinking it dawned on me he might be talking about the "radiator support" which he was. In all my years of being in the auto body business I had never heard it referred to as that! I don't think the mechanic, although he is probably older than me, was working when Studebaker made carriages!

studegary
10-22-2013, 12:25 PM
Sometimes we get a bit carried away with terms such as motors vs. engines. I however a couple years ago ran into one term that I had never heard before when a mechanic referred to a part as a "radiator saddle". I had no clue to what he could be talking about at first but after thinking it dawned on me he might be talking about the "radiator support" which he was. In all my years of being in the auto body business I had never heard it referred to as that! I don't think the mechanic, although he is probably older than me, was working when Studebaker made carriages!

I may also be older than you and I remember the term radiator saddle for the structure, usually a U shape, that holds the radiator.

Pat Dilling
10-22-2013, 12:32 PM
I may also be older than you and I remember the term radiator saddle for the structure, usually a U shape, that holds the radiator.

I knew immediately what it meant, but I have usually heard it referred to as a "core support."