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View Full Version : which trans is your favorite? BW T-10, BW T-86, or I guess FOM.



GThawkwind
08-17-2013, 01:08 AM
I originally wanted a four on the floor if I was gonna build a car myself. But after reading the good stuff about the BW 3 speeds I was thinking, good trans, way cheaper hmm. But I found a good deal on a four speed, that I can afford and I'm starting to think, settle in other departments not in your drive train! But would a three speed be settling. I have no experience with either trans so I'm not sure. Is worth double to even more for a four on the floor? It seems like it might just be. I want it to be a hot rod.
This is mostly to see what you people prefer with a poll. And why you prefer what you do.
Option 1. BW T86 OD or even just the three speeds in general. But that one in general.

Option 2. BW T10 nothing fancy just the good old factory four speed of 61-64

Option 3. FOM automatic I guess the standard version since I have hope of or interest in finding a power-shift. If you like the power-shift best vote auto, and specify. I left this option in for those like autos best, but this thread is mostly for the manuals.

SN-60
08-17-2013, 01:11 AM
I vote for the BW T-10......They work great in hotrods!

GThawkwind
08-17-2013, 01:29 AM
I actually setup a poll so I can count how many people prefer what. So feel free to vote!

rknight89
08-17-2013, 03:39 AM
I've only taken a few short test drives in my Lark as it is nearly done. It has the FOM (not powershift). It seems like it's wound a little tight with the automatic and the 4.10 rear end. I get up to 45-50 mph and I want it to shift one more time but it doesn't. I can't imagine how it with be at highway speeds. I guess, to answer your question, It might depend on what gear ratio you rear end has as to what transmission will serve you best.

jimmijim8
08-17-2013, 06:02 AM
Hydramatic- GM ..... DG250 Detroit Gear

JoeHall
08-17-2013, 08:28 AM
To me, its very important to combine tranny and rear end selection. A good combo makes most any tranny OK, but a mismatch can render the car all but useless. Also, what was a good combo 45-60 years ago is not necessarily so today, since a lot has changed about driving conditions, then & now.

As for Stude OEM: T85/89 set up for passenger car, with 3.31 to 3.73 rear end; FOM, with 3.07; T-10 with 3.54 to 3.73, but only if I could figure a way to put OD in it. Last would be T86, though its not really even last, since you couldn't pay me to run one.

As for other trannys: 200/700R with 3.31 to 3.73 rear end, or TH350/400 with 2.53 to 2.79.

SN-60
08-17-2013, 08:32 AM
DG250 Detroit Gear

Jimmi....He wants to drive a car.....NOT anchor a yacht!!!!

SN-60
08-17-2013, 08:36 AM
[QUOTE=JoeHall;769936] Last would be T86, though its not really even last, since you couldn't pay me to run one.

Depends how one drives Joe....T-86's are stronger than You give them credit for......and much lighter than their 'big brother', the "Big Hog" T-85!!!!!!!

evilhawk
08-17-2013, 08:51 AM
I am kinda in the same boat as you only I already own a 3 speed/od trans and a floor shifter. I was thinking four speed, but am now leaning more towards the 3 speed for a few reasons. for one I already own it ;) and for two the cool factor, and three it sounds like a lot of fun to drive one. I mean how many manual trans have passing gears that automatically kick in when you mash the pedal and allow the car to coast to a stop? I think I even read you dont need the clutch when shifting into 2nd or third. These trans are super cool and make great conversation pieces and I imagine a blast to drive. Of course I am not sure how well this trans will hold up to a massive amount of power and I imagine I may have to go with a four speed when I add the turbos, but for the time being I feel the 3 speed will work fine. If you havent read how to operate a 3 speed OD trans I suggest you do before you make your final choice.

allstateguy
08-17-2013, 08:53 AM
T5, even if it's not on the list

SN-60
08-17-2013, 09:01 AM
Probably the biggest drawback to using a T-85 or a T-86 is the non-synchro 1st gear. But if the trans is equipped with overdrive,...and it's left in overdrive,....1st can easily be engaged without coming to a full stop.....which definitely helps the driving experience!

2R5
08-17-2013, 09:27 AM
...this is easy.....3 spd OD without a doubt.

PackardV8
08-17-2013, 10:03 AM
Can't vote because your poll left out the best transmission Studebaker ever offered - the T85/T89 overdrive.

jack vines

SN-60
08-17-2013, 10:18 AM
Can't vote because your poll left out the best transmission Studebaker ever offered - the T85/T89 overdrive.

jack vines

The T-85 is a treasure......heavy......but a treasure!

WilburV
08-17-2013, 12:22 PM
For a street car, you will want an overdrive style transmission if you can afford it. That's why manufacturers turn out new cars with overdrive: more relaxed and quieter cruising at highway speeds, better gas mileage and less drivetrain wear and tear.

That limits you to really two affordable choices: Go old school with the 3 speed/overdrive or a modern Borg Warner T5

The T5 to Studebaker swap is well documented on this site as well as other online sources. The pluses for the T5 are being light weight, compact, inexpensive, plentiful, and easy to rebuild. Parts can be found anywhere. In high performance applications, they are seen as weak, but a world-class T5 behind a Studebaker holds up just fine.

Put a high performance shifter on the T5 (factory shifters are junk), an old style shift knob and boot and you have the best of both worlds.

SN-60
08-17-2013, 01:19 PM
For a street car, you will want an overdrive style transmission if you can afford it. That's why manufacturers turn out new cars with overdrive: more relaxed and quieter cruising at highway speeds, better gas mileage and less drivetrain wear and tear.

That limits you to really two affordable choices: Go old school with the 3 speed/overdrive or a modern Borg Warner T5

The T5 to Studebaker swap is well documented on this site as well as other online sources. The pluses for the T5 are being light weight, compact, inexpensive, plentiful, and easy to rebuild. Parts can be found anywhere. In high performance applications, they are seen as weak, but a world-class T5 behind a Studebaker holds up just fine.

Put a high performance shifter on the T5 (factory shifters are junk), an old style shift knob and boot and you have the best of both worlds.

I completely agree with this!

PackardV8
08-17-2013, 01:21 PM
The T-85 is a treasure......heavy......but a treasure!How much more would you estimate the T85/R11 weighs than the T86/R10?

jack vines

SN-60
08-17-2013, 01:35 PM
How much more would you estimate the T85/R11 weighs than the T86/R10?

jack vines

Ballpark estimate?............between 40 -70 lbs. (Big difference when one is laying under a 56J in January trying to wrestle one of those 'big hog's' into place though!!

JoeHall
08-17-2013, 01:46 PM
How much more would you estimate the T85/R11 weighs than the T86/R10?

jack vines
I'd estimate 20-30 pounds.

SN-60
08-17-2013, 01:53 PM
Don't get Me wrong here.....Once again, the Borg Warner T-85 is a fine, rugged transmission. But their supply is definitely dwindling....and the modern five and six speed O/D units.....completely unavailable until fairly recently, may be at least worth considering as an alternative transmission to the T-85.

dnevin
08-17-2013, 02:09 PM
Another voice chiming in on the T5. Readily available, easily adapted. Nice choice for a driver.

PackardV8
08-17-2013, 02:10 PM
Ballpark estimate?............between 40 -70 lbs.

Actually, it's 14#. A 1956 T86 weighs 98# and a 1956 T85 is 112#; same scale.

jack vines

rknight89
08-17-2013, 02:10 PM
Dynaflow...definitely go with dynaflow:D

Gold Hawk Doug
08-17-2013, 02:14 PM
I voted for the T-10. I don't particularly know of the other trans, but with the supercharger, is an absolute HOOT to drive.

I don't have any experience with the other transmissions, but I did change the rear end from 3.73 to 3.31. A little slower off the line, but much more highway friendly. 65 MPH is 2,500 RPM, not to bad, and about in the middle of its power band.

Doug

SN-60
08-17-2013, 02:19 PM
Actually, it's 14#. A 1956 T86 weighs 98# and a 1956 T85 is 112#; same scale.

jack vines

Whoops!..Glad I didn't put money on that! Thanks for the info.

jimmijim8
08-17-2013, 04:42 PM
A boat that won't float needs no anchor. I don't know a thing bought the weights of the 2 trannys I spoke of.. I have driven cars with both types of the trannys and liked the way they felt during the change of gears. A bit different than the BW fom.
Jimmi....He wants to drive a car.....NOT anchor a yacht!!!!

Corvanti
08-17-2013, 05:28 PM
any manual with overdrive (T-86)! if originality is not an issue, i agree with Ed :eek: - a newer 5 or 6 speed w/OD.:)

Flashback
08-17-2013, 07:55 PM
Here ya go with my choise:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/Dadsoics015-1.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Flashback53/media/Dadsoics015-1.jpg.html)

GThawkwind
08-17-2013, 08:27 PM
T5, even if it's not on the list
No I didn't add it simply cause I'm thinking factory trannys and because I personally would not want a 5 speed in this car. Maybe it's weird but it just wouldn't seem right in a car made 60 years ago. I think it's right for the right car but, it's just not my style.

SN-60
08-17-2013, 08:31 PM
Here ya go with my choise:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/Dadsoics015-1.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/Flashback53/media/Dadsoics015-1.jpg.html)

This floorshift setup on the T-86 is EXACTLY what My '55 President Speedster needs...If I had the heart to rid the car of all that column shift junk! (And cut the floor!)

GThawkwind
08-17-2013, 08:37 PM
Waht started me thinking again was the cost of a good shifter for the three speed, and the thought rewiring the OD and ,and making it work right. It almost seemed like after buying and fitting the shifter, and and an OD harness,how much am I really saving? I know where a guy has a whole 4 speed setup for 500. But I know a guy who has a whole three speed setup for 150. If I installed a long tail later 3 speed, It would be very easy to switch to a four down the line. I worry about the car losing the hot rod feel I'd like it to have. But it sounds like the T-86 is better than I figured it to be. That being said I would like the drive the car kinda hard from time to time.

mbstude
08-17-2013, 09:04 PM
It depends on what you want. An around the town hot rod, the T10. Rowing a 4 speed in a Stude is a blast. That 1st to 2nd shift is definitely the best part.

If you want a cruiser that you can take on long trips, the 3 speed overdrive. Like Joe said, the rear end is equally as important.

The automatics.. Depends on the setup. My friend has a Silver Hawk with a V8, 1st gear start automatic from a truck, and a 3.07 rear. It's the best "cruising" Stude I've ever driven.

But if you want a fun hot rod.. Keep the clutch pedal.

GThawkwind
08-17-2013, 09:28 PM
I think if I score a four speed cheap enough I'll do it. Otherwise sounds like I'll be happy with a T-86. I would like to see how the poll pans out still. Though. Oh and the clutch would stay no matter what. I added FOM because I wanted the auto lovers to have an option to vote.

Corvanti
08-17-2013, 09:46 PM
some of us ol' (and not that old) farts have to go to automatics due to joint problems.:(

i found that out when i took my neighbor's BMW Z-3 roadster 5-speed on a test drive that i "refreshed" before handing it back to her. i loved going thru the gears, my "fake" left knee - not so much! and that was a "light" hydraulic clutch...

i would not rule out a manual trans Studebaker in the future though. i did vote for the T-86 - mainly for highway driving!:)

GThawkwind
08-17-2013, 09:50 PM
Will a GT hawk shifter clear a 53 bench? I wouldn't need to have the seat far forward. And if not will a hurst, or 61 style clear?

clonelark
08-17-2013, 10:02 PM
Rowing a 4 speed is just a blast.

Pack Rat
08-17-2013, 11:34 PM
I've had Studes with automatics, 4-Speeds, and now have a 56 GH with a 3-speed OD. There's nothing like running a hot V-8 through the gears BUT, if you are planning to go to some big car shows with lots of traffic and do some crusing, a clutch is a PITA in slow moving/heavy traffic. I would love to participate in the Woodward Dream Cruise but it ain't going to happen with a stick shift.

If cruising in traffic isn't a consideration, I vote for the 4-speed.

Pack Rat

JoeHall
08-18-2013, 08:01 AM
I've had Studes with automatics, 4-Speeds, and now have a 56 GH with a 3-speed OD. There's nothing like running a hot V-8 through the gears BUT, if you are planning to go to some big car shows with lots of traffic and do some crusing, a clutch is a PITA in slow moving/heavy traffic. I would love to participate in the Woodward Dream Cruise but it ain't going to happen with a stick shift.

If cruising in traffic isn't a consideration, I vote for the 4-speed.

Pack Rat
You make an excellent point. I live in rural Kentucky, and sometimes forget others may live in concrete jungles. An OD tranny is almost like a semi-automatic, but you still have to push the clutch a fair amount of time. Even in rural KY the automatic is just so much easier, and the FOM in our 63GT, with 3.07 rear end, has turned out to be the cat's meow here.

Anyone with a 56J can't be wrong about anything :)
Have you joined Frank A's 56J Register? Or the 56J Only newsgroup yet? If not, you don't know what you are missing. Those clubs really enhance ownership of a 56J !

GinettaG12P
08-18-2013, 11:24 AM
Saginaw because the guts fit my Corvair tansaxle and can be made into a close-ratio transmission using some three-speed and some four-speed parts (and some cutting and welding.)

PackardV8
08-18-2013, 01:09 PM
the automatic is just so much easier,Yep, Joe; it's also known as the old, fat and lazy factor. When I was forty years younger and lived in the San Francisco Bay Area, all steep hills and constant stop-and-go, I drove a '56 Power Hawk with a floor-shifted T86 overdrive and a '65 Sunbeam Tiger with a Ford toploader 4-speed. Any suggestion an automatic might be preferable was an admission of terminal geezerhood.

Can a manual shift transmission function in heavy traffic? Certainly, it can and did back when automatics were expensive and unreliable in heavy use. Standard shifts were the norm for New York City taxis, police cars, municipal fleets, UPS trucks and any application where costs were a concern. The driver's left leg took it eight hours a day or he found other work.

Bottom line, automatics have gotten more durable and we've all gotten older and traffic has gotten heavier and nature has taken it's course.

I really debated tranny options on my three Studes. The Avanti ha come with a Powershift. When I was driving it daily in traffic, two pedals were fine. After the B-W started slipping, I put in a TH700R4. It's a better driver, but I still shift manually through the gears. The truck is an occasional driver, so it got a T89 and may change to a T85. The custom Hawk is pretty far out there, so it gets a T56 six-speed. Your opinions and decisions may vary.

jack vines

Pack Rat
08-18-2013, 10:45 PM
Anyone with a 56J can't be wrong about anything :)
Have you joined Frank A's 56J Register? Or the 56J Only newsgroup yet? If not, you don't know what you are missing. Those clubs really enhance ownership of a 56J ![/QUOTE]

Hey Joe ..... this is Phil from Indiana (Pearl White/Orange stripes 56J). The name change caught you off guard.