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View Full Version : Brakes: Today: Turner Disc install



mmagic
08-15-2013, 07:15 PM
Anyone who can figure out how to take a Jeep master cylinder, a GM caliper and a Ford rotor and with 3 machined brackets bring a 58 year old vehicle he's never seen into the twenty first century is either a genius, a hero or someone to have on your side. Kudos Jim!

I was impressed with the fit of the bracket to hub when I trial mated them just to make sure all bolt holes were the right size and in the right location with the spindle... so perfect they must have been within several ten thousands of an inch. Once satisfied with this I turned to the directions as hard as that is for me to do.

First instruction is red Locktite and torque plate 1 to plate 2. That freshly plated part was not going to get scratched in my vice and I don't have the strength to hold it in one hand while I torque it to 80 pounds. My Solution:
26667 Temporarily reverse mount it on the outside of spindle with one bolt so I could torque plate 1 to plate 2.

Mounting plates to spindle perfect fit and no problem.

Putting bushing on the spindle... On the first one, I started with to small a tip on my MAP torch, didn't get it hot enough so I nearly didn't get it on. Second one went on like the big boys do it.

Studebaker spindle washer is exactly the same size as hole in Ford Rotor so with it rotor is not going to turn. Just happened to have picked up 2 grade 8 washers from Murdocks of the right size.

Everything on and looking good until I attempted to connect the brake line to brake hose. With spring fully extended and wheels turned as with body off or in a critical control situation, the banjo bolt places the hose below the frame and in a position to potentially be kinked or severed.

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I visited NAPA and my other trusty parts stores asking for a fitting or hose that would come straight out of the banjo fitting instead of at a 90 degree angle. You'd have thought it was the Comedy Works when I asked such a question. On the way home I contemplated drilling an M8 1.25 bolt, tapping it and making my own fitting as if I had the tools and skill set to do that.

Eureka:

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I removed the hose, placed a bolt in the banjo hole to keep filings out, marked and cut the rear lip from the "U" casting that the banjo bolt sits in. This allowed the banjo to point to the rear of the car instead of at the spring and solved the problem.

Thanks again Jim for two great kits.

sweetolbob
08-15-2013, 07:31 PM
Nicely done.

I just finished the same install on my 74 Avanti tonight and I like what you did to move the brake hose 90 Deg. I think I'll steal that idea in the morning.

Thanks for posting, Bob

mmagic
08-15-2013, 07:37 PM
sweetolbob--- Don't drink too much coffee first and watch all sides of your cutting blade. This trick is truly swatting flies with a scoop shovel. I did a vertical hacksaw cut as a marker. Made a first cut high then a second cut when I could see better to the surface... stay off the banjo seat and the bleed valve below.

Came out great but one sneeze and you buy a new rotor.

sweetolbob
08-15-2013, 08:07 PM
sweetolbob--- Don't drink too much coffee first and watch all sides of your cutting blade. This trick is truly swatting flies with a scoop shovel. I did a vertical hacksaw cut as a marker. Made a first cut high then a second cut when I could see better to the surface... stay off the banjo seat and the bleed valve below.

Came out great but one sneeze and you buy a new rotor.

Thanks for the advice and the clear pictures previously. After looking at your pictures, I was concerned with the seat also, so what I planned to do is use an old Banjo bolt with a spacer turned larger than the sealing washer and bolt it together as a solid unit so the saw blade/cutting wheel can't get to it.

Again thanks for the idea and keep posting. These are the type of posts that adds value to the forum. And your titles will make future searches much easier for members to find. A lot of forum members post information that will be difficult to find in the future do to poor titles. (A pet-peeve of mine). They should take heed of yours as reference and help future searchers.


Well done, Bob

5brown1
08-15-2013, 08:44 PM
My kit did not arrive today so I installed the combination valve, rerouted lines and removed all the old brake parts. I,m ready so hopefully it will be here tomorrow.
Thanks for the post. I will be able to do the modification prior to mounting the caliper which should make it a bit easier.
My car also has the two pivot pins. I asked Jim T. how the bracket would fit and he was not familiar with having two. However, in your other post the pictures appear to show that the Turner bracket fits nicely on the back pivot pin. How are you securing the bracket to that pin?

mmagic
08-15-2013, 09:22 PM
5brown1...

The rear pivot is for the clutch on a manual shift like mine. I installed the bracket, then clutch as normal. The original bracket had holes for both pivots. With the Turner bracket the brake pedal has the thickness of the original bracket (16 ga) of lateral slop now.

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sweetolbob
08-21-2013, 01:57 PM
Nicely done.

I just finished the same install on my 74 Avanti tonight and I like what you did to move the brake hose 90 Deg. I think I'll steal that idea in the morning.

Thanks for posting, Bob

Today I stole your idea and did my calipers. I heeded your warning and used a banjo bolt and bored out an 1/8" pipe coupling to cover the seats.

It worked out well.

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You can see by the scoring on the coupling, protection was necessary. I used a 3" cutting wheel and a 1/4" carbide bit on an air die grinder to attack the caliper.

Thanks for the idea.

Bob

StudeRich
08-21-2013, 02:15 PM
Something does not seem right here, this modifying and grinding the Caliper should not be necessary on a "bolt-on" Kit.
I do not remember Jim ever suggesting that you have to "grind" things up to get a safe Hose routing. You guys must be using the wrong fittings/hoses or something. :confused:

We "Bolted" the Turner kit on my Factory Disc. Brake '64 Daytona, with no fooling around with the Calipers, Master Cylinder or Bendix Brake Booster at all, except replacing it all with factory correct New parts and filling with DOT 5 Silicone.

There are no possible flex hose abrasion issues. We even installed the factory Grease, rock and dirt shield.

I am convinced that Avantis and Disc. Brake Studebakers are the very BEST possible application of these Kits because there is no "experimenting and adjusting" of Dual master Cylinders, Boosters, Linkage, Residual Valves, Equalizer Valves, Mods of Brake lines, Rear Brakes etc. etc. to be done and Maintained.

I will be leaving all my through the floor Pedal and Drum Brake Cars as they were built, so the next owner will know what he is dealing with.

sweetolbob
08-21-2013, 02:31 PM
Something does not seem right here, this modifying and grinding the Caliper should not be necessary on a "bolt-on" Kit.
I do not remember Jim ever suggesting that you have to "grind" things up to get a safe Hose routing. You guys must be using the wrong fittings/hoses or something. :confused:

We "Bolted" the Turner kit on my Factory Disc. Brake '64 Daytona, with no fooling around with the Calipers, Master Cylinder or Bendix Brake Booster at all, except replacing it all with factory correct New parts and filling with DOT 5 Silicone.

There are no possible flex hose abrasion issues. We even installed the factory Grease, dust, dirt shield.

Rich

These are the 97 S-10 4X4 calipers. The shot here is the hose installed prior to removing a portion of the shoulder. The wheels are in the straight ahead position and I couldn't find a position that would remove the close to 90 deg. bend in the hose. When I turned the wheels, the hose kink increased as the caliper/hose approached the frame.

It might have been OK as is but after seeing mmagics mod I decided to try it. There is much less angle and flex in the hose now.

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Too me, a 90 deg bend on the end of the hose would be ideal.

Bob

StudeRich
08-21-2013, 02:34 PM
Thanks Bob, I see what you mean, those 4X4 Calipers are just a Bad fit.

So what is wrong with the Old Chevelle/El Camino Calipers we have been using successfully for 30 years?

sweetolbob
08-21-2013, 02:53 PM
Thanks Bob, I see what you mean, those 4X4 Calipers are just a Bad fit.

So what is wrong with the Old Chevelle/El Camino Calipers we have been using successfully for 30 years?

Rich

I'm not sure but IIRC wasn't there was a boss and shoulder that needed to be removed from them, and of course, these are probably easier to get. I would think this is just one of the facets of matching reasonably available OEM equipment to make a good workable system.

Other than this, it's been a easy bolt up and possibly addressed if Jim could provide a flex hose with a 90 on the end.


Bob

junior
08-23-2013, 09:27 AM
Thanks Bob, I see what you mean, those 4X4 Calipers are just a Bad fit.

So what is wrong with the Old Chevelle/El Camino Calipers we have been using successfully for 30 years?

In my particular case, I had no choice but to use the 4x4 calipers because the Monte/Malibu calipers would not allow the brake hose to be connected on the pass. side because there was not enough space between the caliper and the steering arm (IIRC...it's been 7 years since I did this.) A phone call to Jim Turner, and his suggestion was to use the truck calipers. I too had to turn the banjo fitting 90 degrees, and will attach a photo that shows a modified and unmodified caliper for others who need to do the same procedure.

Also of note, I had to grind a slight notch (about an 3/16") in the edge of the frame (where the flat bottom of the frame is welded to the "hat" section of the frame) on the drivers side only because the at full left lock, the bleeder valve would make contact with the frame and get tweaked or possibly even sheared off...some thing others may want to check on their installs.

Hope this info may help others. Junior.

1954khardtop
08-23-2013, 05:46 PM
mmagic, I had never seen the twin pivot set up before, so to satisfy my curiosity I did a search here for "brake pedal pivots". I learned the forward pivot was for factory installed power brakes. The poster of one thread claimed the power brake pedal arm did not provide enough mechanical advantage to properly apply the manual breaks, and he had to switch to the manual pedal. If you find this to be the case I have an extra pedal you can have for postage. It fits over the rear pivot, and the clutch shaft passes thru it.

mmagic
08-23-2013, 07:07 PM
1954..
Thanks... I'll have to see how mine works. I'll keep the post and let you know.

JoeHall
08-25-2013, 04:44 PM
I THOUGHT the disc brakes on the 63GT were Turners, but after looking at the pix y'all provided here, I must say I have no clue what they are. They are same quality as Turners, but the caliper is positioned in front of the king pin, with the line coming out the bottom of the caliper, and the bleeder on top, pointing straight back, toward the king pin. I'm gonna have my son take some pix, and start another thread. Don't wanna hijack this one, but I hope to figure out what they are.

SN-60
08-25-2013, 06:37 PM
Factory '84-'85 Avantis utilized another type of caliper mounting bracket that allowed the Chevy calipers to be used with the 10 1/2" Chevy rotors. The Chevy calipers on the Avanti factory install were also notched out for optimum banjo/hose fit. (Not what You have Joe,...Factory install puts the calipers behind kingpin.)