Brakes: Avanti brakes on a Daytona?

[PlainBrownR2]

I have a question about installing Avanti brakes on a '63 Daytona. Well, lemme back up a bit before getting into the questions. While we were in Colorado Springs, we bought a couple of Turner kits to switch out the disc brakes on our '63 Avanti, and for his entertainment, also lugged the rotors through the real maze of a hotel and out to parking lot on the farside of the hotel, without stopping . Anyway, the parts were good, but after they'd sit for a few months, there was a tendency to leak fluid from the master cylinder out all over the place on the driver's side. The problem was located to the crossover pipe on the driver's side on the calipers, but considering the size of pads and the modern replacement parts of the Turner kit, as well as not wanting to play around with rebuilding the older equipment, we finally bit the bullet and bought one of the kits. I dunno when it will make it to the car, but that's another story. Anyway, this will free up the disc brakes already on the Avanti, so my question is, how much would be needed to put the still usable factory parts from the Avanti, onto the front of the Daytona, seeing as they offered disc brakes on the Larks, Hawks, and possibly trucks too? Would it require changing the spindles up front?

[gordr]

No, they should bolt right on. Studebaker offered disc brakes as an option on all models (other than trucks) when the Avanti was introduced. I had a disc brake Daytona, and there's a disc-brake Cruiser in my yard right now.

I seem to remember there was a slight interference issue, putting Studebaker disc brakes on older Studes. Might have been between the thrust bearing flange on the kingpin, and the I.D. of the "hat" section on the rotor? If you were to run into that, a little work with an angle grinder should take care of it.

[Warren Webb]

I remember reading that the spindles on disc brake cars were machined differently. Where the difference is I don't know. I have both drum & disc brake spindles here but never noticed the difference, if there really is any. Perhaps B.P. will chime in on this.

[bezhawk]

Yes, the spindles are different. Disc brake cars have a machined flat where the caliper mounting bracket bolts to it.

[(S)]

It was in 1961 when they changed the alignment specs by changing the knuckles and spindles and knew they were going with these 'new' disc brakes when they were to bring out the Avanti. By 1963 they machined all of them the same to fit the D/B brackets and did so until the end on all models to go along with along with the king pins (angle change)..

[SN-60]

As stated above the spindles are different....also the Avanti-style power booster would need to be fitted.....as well as Avanti-style 11" non-energizing rear brakes. A lot of work for those so-so Dunlop disc brakes!

[PlainBrownR2]

As stated above the spindles are different....also the Avanti-style power booster would need to be fitted.....as well as Avanti-style 11" non-energizing rear brakes. A lot of work for those so-so Dunlop disc brakes!

I got the part with spindles, but as far as so-so disc brakes, well I've driven for years on power drums on the Commander. It's a step up from the drums for me as far as driving the Larks, and a fine opportunity to reuse parts, but recognizing the age of the vehicle, they're only so-so if the individual has a bad habit of tailgating the driver in front of them! Besides that, we had them on the Avanti since we've had the car from around 1996. We bought the kit because the parts are much more modern, and we don't wanna mess around with rebuilding whatever's leaking under there.

I'd have some of the parts in this case. I see I'd probably need the spindles, and maybe a different master cylinder. I don't know if I'd really have to switch to 11 inch drums immediately, because this was a V8 car, and there are 10 inch drums on the rear already.

[SN-60]

I got the part with spindles, but as far as so-so disc brakes, well I've driven for years on power drums on the Commander. It's a step up from the drums for me as far as driving the Larks, and a fine opportunity to reuse parts, but recognizing the age of the vehicle, they're only so-so if the individual has a bad habit of tailgating the driver in front of them! Besides that, we had them on the Avanti since we've had the car from around 1996. We bought the kit because the parts are much more modern, and we don't wanna mess around with rebuilding whatever's leaking under there. [/COLOR]

I'd have some of the parts in this case. I see I'd probably need the spindles, and maybe a different master cylinder. I don't know if I'd really have to switch to 11 inch drums immediately, because this was a V8 car, and there are 10 inch drums on the rear already.

That's part of the issue....those 10" drums that are on Your Stude now are self-energizing....and You may end up with too much brake at the rear....rear brake lockup is a big no-no. Perhaps installing an adjustable proportioning valve to the rear brakes may be a way around this problem though.

[PlainBrownR2]

Well, let's rephrase part of the question for the brakes in the rear. Considering the rarity of finding the 11 inch rear drums these days, what was the answer to the disc brakes on the Larks in 65-66, aside from the changeover to flanged axles?

[SN-60]

Well, let's rephrase part of the question for the brakes in the rear. Considering the rarity of finding the 11 inch rear drums these days, what was the answer to the disc brakes on the Larks in 65-66, aside from the changeover to flanged axles?

Avanti 11" non-energizing brakes at the rear.

[2R2]

Ivan,

My Lark is a factory disc brake car, that at some point was converted to drums, and received a drum brake rear axle as well. When I rebuilt the car, I elected to go back to the Dunlop disc brake set up, as I like to do everything the hard way. Fortunatly, my car still had the unique disc brake spindles. I did NOT switch back to the non-energized rear brakes, but instead installed an adjustable proportioning valve for the rear brakes. Assuming you install the disc brake booster, you will need to change the brake pedal reach rod as well. I am sure there was more to it, but I did this changeover a few years ago, and am going from memory.

[PlainBrownR2]

Thanks Eric!

It seems there's quite a few more parts under there than what initially appears. Right now this is still an idea that I came up with, after we got the Turner kit from Colorado Springs. We're still working on floor and trunk panels, so the brakes are a bit of a ways off yet. Odds are, I may end up with going with what works best, and what may end up happening is the parts on the Commander, which is still power drums, may all get transferred over to the Daytona. It looks like to complete the conversion the "old fashioned way" would require completely robbing a donor Avanti or disc brake Lark of its whole axle and braking system.

[PlainBrownR2]

I also have a general peeve, well fear is better word to describe it, about disassembling front suspensions, which is what it sounds like with having to replace the spindles. I find nothing more unnerving than taking apart a mechanical system that will rearrange your mouth and face if you're not careful, so if the front suspension works well as it sits, and I have a perfectly working braking system on the Commander, I'll replace the parts on the Daytona and usually leave the rest alone.

[mmagic]

If you do elect to change spindles, I'd suggest this method (including Deepinhock's suggestion) to keep your face intact and avoid total disassembly of control arms. It quickly contained/controlled the springs and was far safer than the generic spring compressor I used to dissemble. This would seem to make for an efficient spindle change.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?73763-Installed-control-arms-on-the-Speedster

[PlainBrownR2]

Thanks! I'll keep it in mind. That's not hard to do around here, a couple rods of All Thread and some nuts and washers from Menards, and I'd have one of those. It's aways down the road yet, as I'm still at the stage where I'm working on getting some patch panels for the floors and trunk!