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StudeMichael
07-10-2013, 09:40 PM
Note that even on the 1969 Series One Excalibur they were still using GT Hawk gauges and a Studebaker powershift gear selector assembly. Also, the SS badge is a carryover from the Studebaker SS and is on the side of the cowl.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Other-Roadster-Co-1969-Excalibur-SS-Series-I-Roadster-Convertible-/271237192311?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3f26ff1a77&vxp=mtr

r1lark
07-11-2013, 06:39 AM
Oh Man, this thing is SWEET!!!!

Wish I had the money sitting around............

Xcalibur
07-17-2013, 11:30 PM
Ah yes, but the die was cast by then since 1969 was the last year of the Series 1... regrettably. Nary again would we see the likes. The Stevens kids saw the future and it wasn't what they were building at that time. As is often the case, they decided to "follow the money." And, made it work for a loooooong time. However, I'd not trade my Series 1 SSK for a dozen of the later ones (of any series) if I had to keep and drive 'em. :lol:


I just looked at the one you posted at ebay, StudeMichael, and one might wonder what they did with the battery, since it is missing from the top-right of the firewall--where all the acid has run down in the engine-compartment pic. There isn't a lot of room to put one anywhere else!!!

Since you mentioned the gauges, somewhere along the way the small ones have been "split" and aren't mounted in pairs like with GTs and the earlier X's.

SN-60
07-18-2013, 07:28 AM
Wow!.....Look at the odd placement of the emergency brake handle......'long armed' drivers only need apply!

JimC
07-18-2013, 07:46 AM
Man, what a cool car. Excalibur's rank very high on my list of dream cars.

Xcalibur
07-18-2013, 11:31 PM
Many, even Stude aficionados, are unaware of the Studebaker lineage. When I bought mine most had no idea what I was doing or why, "I thought you were into Studes," being the single most common reply--right after, "What the *^#@ is that?" When I explained the heritage and continued use of the chassis through 1969--everyone was shocked, and these weren't just "young kids," by any means. Old stuff is lost to most and when it was rare stuff (97 no-door models built) to begin with, it's "all new" to nearly everyone today. I have found only one person who knew what an X was/is and he attended the 1964 NY Auto Show when the prototype debuted and still has the handouts. He is a rarer bird than the car, hehehehe!!!

SN-60, no, one doesn't need long arms to use the parking-brake, it isn't far across the "cockpit," only 40.5", at the front of the seats.

SN-60
07-19-2013, 08:39 AM
Black with the red trim looks great on this Excalibur!

Xcalibur
07-21-2013, 06:00 PM
Thanks, SN-60.

Black with red interior would not have been my first choice, but it isn't like one has a lot of choice, at this point. I've followed no-door X's for decades and most that sell publicly are usually pretty ragged--like the SS (doored-version) cited at the start of this thread. I like the very early promo-pix of the black/black Series 1's the best, but I've found that the red has sort of grown on me... and, I just couldn't find a better one for sale.

StudeMichael
07-21-2013, 07:06 PM
What makes the one I posted a "ragged" example. It looked pretty nice to me!


Thanks, SN-60.

most that sell publicly are usually pretty ragged--like the SS (doored-version) cited at the start of this thread.

spokejr
07-21-2013, 07:42 PM
I'll take the earlier one;
http://auctionsamerica.com/events/feature-lots.cfm?SaleCode=BB13&ID=r463&Order=runorder&feature=&collection=&grouping=&category=

Can't you just see Phyllis driving down Sunset with her big hair and the cigarette holder clenched in her teeth, looking like the cat who just ate the canary? You've got to admit, the car has a certain Cruella Deville look to it.

Cheers,

Ken

StudeMichael
07-21-2013, 09:00 PM
Nice car but I don't care for the square back end on this model.


I'll take the earlier one;
http://auctionsamerica.com/events/feature-lots.cfm?SaleCode=BB13&ID=r463&Order=runorder&feature=&collection=&grouping=&category=

Can't you just see Phyllis driving down Sunset with her big hair and the cigarette holder clenched in her teeth, looking like the cat who just ate the canary? You've got to admit, the car has a certain Cruella Deville look to it.

Cheers,

Ken

Xcalibur
07-22-2013, 09:10 PM
StudeMichael, to respond to your question/comment ("What makes the one I posted a "ragged" example. It looked pretty nice to me!"), please understand, of course, that everyone's evaluation--of anything--is going to differ based on many factors. I will give you my perspective on this one--only because you asked. Btw, if one is used to "like new" vintage cars, even a several year old "used car" that others think is fine can look pretty ragged.

In the case of the noted '69 X I'd first direct your attention to the engine compartment, which is, in my evaluation... a mess. I mentioned the missing battery shelf earlier in this thread and the obvious battery acid damage to the firewall (and, WHERE exactly IS the battery now, btw? I was serious; there is little room anywhere else for one). To continue... The air-cleaner is non-original and the entire engine compartment rusty and unkempt. And, notice the numerous chips along the trailing edge of the fan-shroud. On the plus side it DOES still have the shroud (many don't) and it has the original (or like original) plenum exhaust manifolds, but of questionable condition judging by their surroundings and rust. Also, it seems to have a short instead of long water-pump which probably necessitates the fan spacer used. The rocker-arm covers also appear to be aftermarket; the "winged" hold-downs certainly are. And, as I say, the entire engine compartment appears "very rough," in my evaluation.

There is more, of course, such as the fabricated "heat shields" over the exhausts at the doors. Also, it seems to have the rear-deck holes (or something at those spots) for the luggage rack, which is missing, along with the mounts that attach to the holes/plugs/whatever. Inside, the door-panels appear scuffed and the carpet faded. There is a poorly attached (coming loose, actually) non-original metal rub piece attached to the center console by the accelerator pedal. There is a similar piece of metal on the opposite side of the drivers foot area that appears corroded. The thrown in, obviously non-fitted floor mats make it impossible to see the condition of the carpet in the most wear-prone areas, figure it is worn through judging by the rest of the car (and, probably why the rub-plates where screwed on). Also, there is no sign of the top boot (another oft missing piece) that encloses the top when down.

Obviously, there are many things we really cannot judge adequately from the pix, such as condition of the paint (on the plus side the paint on the aluminum hood matches that of the fiberglass better than most), and we cannot tell the condition of the chassis and its maintenance (or lack there of, looking at what we can see). Also, we cannot tell the condition of the Dayton knock-off wheels. USUALLY, these are not maintained well and they are non-stainless spokes, unlike the ones of today. I can tell you what new cost (or, having the originals rebuild--more than buying new). Again, there is nothing I see to suggest more than the barest, minimal maintenance of any part of the car.

Have I seen worse? You bet! Have I seen better; certainly. In my evaluation, this is one of the rougher $45K and up that I have seen, and as an aside it's value is compromised further because it has doors, pure and simple--making the asking price yet more questionable. I think a brutally honest OC Price Guide evaluation (as of earlier this year) would call it no more than a weak "3" with an evaluation of @ $30K. As it turns out there is what would seem a better example currently for sale in Florida--and it doesn't have doors!!!

Now, aren't you sorry you asked? Hehehehe!!!

StudeMichael
07-22-2013, 11:24 PM
Not sorry at all Xcalibur. Most of what you describe could be easily remedied with an R2 or R3 engine transplant.

Xcalibur
07-23-2013, 02:50 PM
Yes, StudeMichael... IF the engine-swap included a fairly complete restoration (or, at least a serious "freshening") of the rest of the car, as well, hehehe.

Btw, I was probably wrong about the water-pump on this one; on second look it seems it's just had the installed fan and spacer swapped for the original thermostatically controlled one.

I would certainly like to see an accurate "reproduction" of the original prototype NY show car, down to the larger than production tri-bar headlights and split windshield. Unfortunately, (inho) as production parts were decided upon the prototype was updated to include them, as well. I can see doing so from a marketing standpoint, but from an historical perspective we lose something.

I have added tri-bars to mine, but in the production light-buckets.

All the best.

StudeMichael
07-25-2013, 06:02 PM
Here is a 1965 model. I would say this one is nice but over restored to the point of losing some of it's charisma.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Excalibur-serie-one-Excalibur-SSK-Series-I-Roadster-Excalibur-previously-owned-by-Marvin-/221258549760?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3384098a00&vxp=mtr

Corvanti
07-25-2013, 06:30 PM
Here is a 1965 model. I would say this one is nice but over restored to the point of losing some of it's charisma.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Excalibur-serie-one-Excalibur-SSK-Series-I-Roadster-Excalibur-previously-owned-by-Marvin-/221258549760?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3384098a00&vxp=mtr

over restored? please explain... i just want to know.:)

if this vehicle was really owned by Marvin Gaye, i can see some "entertainers" wanting her.;)

SN-60
07-25-2013, 06:39 PM
[QUOTE=Corvanti;762650]over restored? please explain... i just want to know.

Best thing to do is find a photo of a 'stock' one and compare......You'll definitely see it!

studegary
07-26-2013, 12:28 PM
Here is a 1965 model. I would say this one is nice but over restored to the point of losing some of it's charisma.

]

I would call it modified, not "over restored".
To me, there is no such thing as over restored. To restore is to bring back to original condition. Anything else, in either direction, is not restoring.

Gunslinger
07-26-2013, 01:49 PM
I would call it modified, not "over restored".
To me, there is no such thing as over restored. To restore is to bring back to original condition. Anything else, in either direction, is not restoring.

Agree 100%! Restoration means done to the standards the vehicle was originally built to. Mopar fanatics pay big bucks to restore a car...and they want paint overspray where the factory did overspray. Personally, if I'm spending the kind of money they do I don't want to see overspray. Just because the factory did sloppy workmanship doesn't mean I want it when I do a car.

When my Avanti was rebuilt, I've never used the word "restoration" as I didn't restore it. I say my car went through a "reconstruction" as original standards were not an issue...I changed what I wanted and hopefully made it a better car...fuel injection, aluminum drive shaft, overdrive tranny, different color, Recaro seats, composite leaf springs, etc. Anyone who does a true restoration has my admiration...it's one of the most difficult things to do...the research involved, sourcing original and correct parts, using the original processes in paint, tires, upholstery, etc. It's simply not where I wanted to go. That's why I purchased an Avanti II...the cars were essentially all custom anyway so I could do the car to the standard I wanted.

SN-60
07-26-2013, 04:26 PM
Agree 100%! Restoration means done to the standards the vehicle was originally built to. Mopar fanatics pay big bucks to restore a car...and they want paint overspray where the factory did overspray. Personally, if I'm spending the kind of money they do I don't want to see overspray. Just because the factory did sloppy workmanship doesn't mean I want it when I do a car.

When my Avanti was rebuilt, I've never used the word "restoration" as I didn't restore it. I say my car went through a "reconstruction" as original standards were not an issue...I changed what I wanted and hopefully made it a better car...fuel injection, aluminum drive shaft, overdrive tranny, different color, Recaro seats, composite leaf springs, etc. Anyone who does a true restoration has my admiration...it's one of the most difficult things to do...the research involved, sourcing original and correct parts, using the original processes in paint, tires, upholstery, etc. It's simply not where I wanted to go. That's why I purchased an Avanti II...the cars were essentially all custom anyway so I could do the car to the standard I wanted.

Yes, but I'll bet that You don't ride around with a 'steamer chest' like that one fastened to the trunk of Your Avanti!!!!!!!

plwindish
07-26-2013, 04:50 PM
The firewall does look funky. I take it that the cars were not equipped with heaters either? I don't see any hoses or a heater in the firewall.

SN-60
07-26-2013, 04:55 PM
The firewall does look funky. I take it that the cars were not equipped with heaters either? I don't see any hoses or a heater in the firewall.

Heaters?.....Some of them weren't even equipped with DOORS!

Xcalibur
07-27-2013, 07:12 PM
Heaters were a $100 option on the Series-1s, at least through 1968. Some details about the last year are sketchy. Though the cost of the car increased over its run, according to factory brochures the price of options did not.

As for the car here, Marvin Gaye was definitely one of many "celebs" who owned X's, even the "crude" Series-1s. This one was probably his since it has a number of mods reputed to have been done on his car. It has definitely NOT been "restored" as many of us use the term. It HAS been modified, as noted above, in many ways. For example, if I might direct the reader to the gauge faces, the dash surface, and steering wheel. Owners, original and/or later, modified their Xs at least as much as early Avanti owners, in my experience.

Also, the headlights on this one are the most obvious mod, one seen on many cars since a lot of owners considered the stock ones to be a little small (note, the original Stude prototype originally had larger lights which were exchanged for the shorter, 7" production units after the latter were decided upon. Also, please see the "Model A" style fender-mounted tail-lights. These were frequent European modifications and may have been to meet regulations since I have seem others with identical items. Indeed, my Swiss-based car has them. They were probably all purchased from the same well-known British supplier mine came from. As for doors, I've probably noted elsewhere, as per Camelot Motors/Excalibur Cars, there were a total of 97 X's built without doors.

As for the Steamer Trunk, my thought is that may be an homage to a 1971 French movie translated something like, "The Pretty Little Girls," that is seen with an even LARGER trunk before being "crashed" into a hay stack. Btw, as best we can determine, my car was most likely the one in that movie based on considerable evidence. Sorry to belabor details, just a life-long fan and SSK owner, here.

Here is a link to a new owner of the Marvin Gaye car about a year ago looking for pix of MG with it...
http://marvingaye.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1343805582

and, another with it for sale noting new Classic Instrument guages and a new Blaupunkt radio, and notes that documentation goes with the car... http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=28671

SN-60
07-27-2013, 11:44 PM
Many, even Stude aficionados, are unaware of the Studebaker lineage. When I bought mine most had no idea what I was doing or why, "I thought you were into Studes," being the single most common reply--right after, "What the *^#@ is that?" When I explained the heritage and continued use of the chassis through 1969--everyone was shocked, and these weren't just "young kids," by any means. Old stuff is lost to most and when it was rare stuff (97 no-door models built) to begin with, it's "all new" to nearly everyone today. I have found only one person who knew what an X was/is and he attended the 1964 NY Auto Show when the prototype debuted and still has the handouts. He is a rarer bird than the car, hehehehe!!!

SN-60, no, one doesn't need long arms to use the parking-brake, it isn't far across the "cockpit," only 40.5", at the front of the seats.

This black example looks to be really exceptional....would like to see more detail photos of this car.

Xcalibur
07-28-2013, 01:52 PM
Thanks, SN-60. Yes, I think I was fortunate to be able to acquire this one--which was due to several odd-ball things coming together within a mere two days, all while I was trying to make a deal on a different one!

Please, excuse the "corrugated" top radiator-hose. As needed it will be replaced by a fitted one. Also, I installed a taller air-filter element, which lifts the lid a bit. On this car, normally no one ever sees the engine but me, so I'm not as picky as I am on my "real cars," hehehe!!!

Oh, yes, and note the rod extending from the radiator grille to the fire-wall. This is one of two apparently installed to reinforce the grille for the movie "crash" into the hay stack, mentioned above. Also, the "insulators" along the top of the engine/hood side-covers on either side of each exhaust hole are more of the "modifications" performed when this car experienced a body-off (such as its body is, hehe) many years ago. And, you can just see one of the "Model A" style tail-lights peaking out behind the rear fender. I don't think I've seen an X for sale in the last 30 years that didn't have at least a few "mods" similar to these or some of the ones seen on the Marvin Gaye car.

2621726218

SN-60
07-28-2013, 08:06 PM
This car is 'IT'!