Engine: 57 hawk motor to rebuild or not to rebuid

[studelyman]

I recently bought a 57 golden hawk with a stuck motor. Removed motor and put it in tank to soak.
Results 4 pistons are questionable with top ring corrosion.
Cylinder walls taper between 3-5 thousands. Hone or bore ?? Big price differnce.
Cam worn but might be OK. Solid lifter are almost all the time need replaced?? Whats with puttng them back in order can the holes for the lifters be honed or cleaned up??
Crank has to be turned .0010-.0010...Expected
Heads need couple new valves and maybe seats. replace with stainless??? pricey

I want to do it right but I have a budget.. Gasket set expensive as is pistons.

Anyone have a source for used pistons or any reasonable prices on gasket set? Wheres the best place to go.

Do you bore or hone cylinders? Your comments and help are appreciated
Thanks Rick

[Bud]

I would recommend boring the cylinders and replacing the pistons as you will be a bunch happier with the job. I've never had good luck re ringing an engine after it seized due to corrosion. You are taking a big risk with the engine burning oil with just a re ring. If the cam shows any signs of pitting on the lobes, you need a new cam as the old one will fail sooner or later. The lifters have worn in to a particular cam lobe and you run the risk of cam failure when you start mixing used lifters and used cam lobes. I also recommend hard seats for the exhaust valves to account for the use of modern no lead, ethanol gas. Bud

[bezhawk]

The cam and the lifters can be re-ground to work as good as new...don't throw them away! (plus, it's cheaper than new parts)

[PackardV8]

Back in the day, a CASO would hone the cylinders, knurl the pistons, throw in new rings, grind the valves and drive 'er another 50,000 miles.

Regrinding the cam and lifters will run you $200 and up. Unless you can find a shop to do lifter regrinding for less than $5 each, buy new.

jack vines

[studelyman]

Bud i hear what you are saying but when there is a budget you cant go over you have to stay within your means. With all the talk about knock offs or afftermarket parts I would really like to stay with original. The pistons are expensive enough and when I have cylinders that measure 3 thousads pitch 3/4 quarter the way down why bore and not hone to keep it original and save the bore for later. There is a chance of loseing some of the clearence with the rings but isn't that why they make oversize rings. As you can tell I'm trying to do whats best within the means I have. I still have to do all the brakes and suspension.

[studelyman]

Anyone ver deal with Kanter Auto Parts?? Is it the best place to go or does someone have another suggestion?
I can get a deluxe engine kit including pistons,valves etc for arounf $1500.

[Dan White]

Rick, you asked the opinion of those here what you should do and I think the answers are pretty clear. Bud and the others have given you good advice, but you will need to make the decision what to do, even if it is not the best direction due to your budget. You have started in the Studebaker world with a pretty high end and desirable car and if you want to make it a reliable driver or something better the direction is clear, taking short cuts will only result in disappointment later when you run into problems and the engine needs to be pulled and redone again. The costs at that point will only get worse and your thoughts of sticking to a budget will be out the window. As an alternative you might look to see if you can find a decent rebuilt or used Stude 289 that you can use until you have the funds to rebuild yours. Check ebay, Studebaker Swap page (http://www.studebakerswap.com/swap/swap.php), Turning Wheels, Hemmings, even Craig's List. My brother scored a really nice running '63 289 on ebay a couple of years ago for $150! (NOTE: I assume you are a member of the Studebaker Drivers Club?)

As for parts, I would steer clear of Kanter. Nothing wrong with what they sell but they ask top dollar in my opinion and you can do better with vendors that support the Studebaker community. Since you are in IN, Studebaker International (South Bend and Greenfield) and Fairborn Studebaker (Fairborn OH, near Dayton) are two good places to start looking for your NOS and OEM parts. There are certainly others that can help out as well: http://www.studebakervendors.com and http://www.studebaker-info.org/rjtechx4.html. You can also find a lot of OEM parts at your local NAPA and other jobber type auto supply places.

Good luck!

[63t-cab]

Rick, I sent you a pm.

[swvalcon]

Being it's a golden hawk I would put it back all studebaker even if I had to put something used in it just to get it around untill the budget would allow. If it was a sliver hawk I would say go to the you pull it and find a 5.3 or 6.0 chev truck motor and trans for it.

[Kdancy]

It used to be that a "numbers matching" engine mattered little, but as these cars and the hobby gets older, it is becoming more of an issue for re-sale value. I would check the engine number and varify that it is the one that came with the car when new and if it is, put my time and effort in rebuilding that one the right way. Especially being it is a Golden Hawk.

[Bud]

I live about 20 minutes away from Isky cams in Gardena, CA. I always take them 2 or 3 used Studebaker cams to be reground when I need 1 because 1 or maybe 2 will be sent back as unuseable due to metal fatigue and pitting. Trying to use worn parts when rebuilding an engine just ends up costing more money and time than doing the job right the first time. There are Studebaker parts suppliers that sell top quality parts and stand behind their products in case of a problem. Parts for Studebaker engines are more expensive than a Chevy or Ford because the parts are being produced in much smaller quantities. I can't tell other people how to spend their hard earned money, but I have built enough engines to know what works and what doesn't. Boring a V8 Studebaker block .030 or .040 oversize is not a problem as there is plenty of metal in the block. Do the job right and the engine will run for a long time with out causing problems. Bud

[JoeHall]

Bud i hear what you are saying but when there is a budget you cant go over you have to stay within your means. With all the talk about knock offs or afftermarket parts I would really like to stay with original. The pistons are expensive enough and when I have cylinders that measure 3 thousads pitch 3/4 quarter the way down why bore and not hone to keep it original and save the bore for later. There is a chance of loseing some of the clearence with the rings but isn't that why they make oversize rings. As you can tell I'm trying to do whats best within the means I have. I still have to do all the brakes and suspension.

I understand where you are coming from, and agree with an Inspect & Repair Only As Necessary (IROAN) approach. First I'd inspect the cylinder bores and lifter bores carefully, since major pitting in either could result in a "deal breaker" in economically re-using that block. Cylinder taper, out of round, and piston clearance are more tolerable, and based on your measurements, it sounds like yours may be OK. For that motor, I'd run cast rings. The pistons will be OK as long as you can get the old rings out and there aren't any damaged ring grooves. Also, you may need to disassemble the pins in order to free some of them up. I'd have a competent person inspect the cam and, if it checks out, polish it. For lifters, if the outer surface is OK, have them resurfaced.
I definitely would replace the cam, rod & main bearings. Have a machinist advise you on turning the crank, but most of the time, they will advise it. Even if they say the crank is OK, still install new bearings.
Disassemble and inspect the oil pump, and ditto for the pressure relief valve. If there is any question about the fiber cam gear, replace it. For the heads, depending on your competency, either disassemble, inspect and ground the valves, with new valve seals, or take them to a machinist.
All in all, if you are lucky, you can IROAN that motor for around $1000, with a reliable outcome. Most old Studes don't accumulate many miles now days anyways, and that motor would get you down the road a loong way.
I understand other's' advice about rebuilding (making it new again), but given your situation as you explained, IROAN will be OK too. Just don't overlook anything, in the disassembly & inspection process. Under no circumstances should you re-install the old rod, main or cam bearings.

Of course, don't forget to pop the freeze plugs and clean the block thoroughly, as is mentioned in numerous other threads here.

[studelyman]

Thanks for the many replies. The decission to hone or bore cylinders is easy I guess. From what I understand when you are talking a std bore but have a 3-5 thousand tapper you have to bore because if yu hone it takes another thousand off and it will end up noisy so we bore it.
As far aas it being original to the car I can not find any p numbe on the drivers side or anywhere. I have seen pictures of others and where it should be but find nothing so I dont know. Crank is a no brainer I expected that. The cam is a different story to me. I never dealt with a solid lifter and regrinding cam and lefters are ne to me. Is there a big price difference or advantage to regrind versus new and when I find a cam they ask for the core like they are regrinding them. If I order another cam I have a feeling I will be getting a regrind anyway.
Trying to work out a deal wih local machine shop on price I guess I'm lucky the block cleaned up and just needs bored.
Thanks again for all the advice

[Bud]

I doubt you will find a new camshaft for your engine, I haven't seen one in a bunch of years. A good cam grinder can tell if your cam is useable, can be reground or is junk. New lifters are available and I would recommend using new over reground if possible. Bud

[Dan White]

Fairborn Studebaker has a complete stock of cams, lifters, push rods, etc. Pretty much any Stude engine part you would need. Give Phil Harris a call he is very helpful.

http://www.fairbornstudebaker.com