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55cmndr
07-04-2013, 08:28 PM
Happy independence day!

Hope you guys may be able help me figure this out
I am trying to find out when the 1955 commanders stopped and the 1956 models began, and some of the information on the production and such.


My Studebaker is a late (16G8F2) Commander Custom 2 door sedan with the production order written on 7/22/1955,and the final assembly date of 8/12/1955.The serial # is 8848238 with a body # of 460 and the factory order # of X10202, and the engine # is VL-5347 (Numbers Match). It has the Bearcat 259.2 V8 and the Stromberg WW-6-112C Carburetor.

When looking at the production order under description of unit & equipment it lists the following:

1. Model - 16G8F2 / Movie ( Can someone tell me what movie meant?)

2. Paint - P-2582 / Saginaw Green ( when it was repainted back in 1995 the previous owner opted for the color now on the car)
The body seam was also taken out and filled .

3. Trim - 1C-233 / 8283
A number of years ago I made contact with either the 2nd or 3rd owner 25180 in regards to the cars history and the side trim, since this was not a stock trim for the commander custom models. He said the it was there when he bought it in the late 70's or early 1980's.
I seem to recall some time ago someone on the forum here mentioned that it was offered as a kit for the sedans.
Does anyone have information on it?


4. Overdrive

5. Electric Wipers

6. High Compression Cylinder Head

7. Left Control

8. Gear Ratio / 3.73

9. Wet air Cleaner - I replaced this with the Fram / Studebaker dry air filter

10. Black Tires

11. AC - 2700 Directional Signals

12. AC - 2715 Climatizer

13. Destination - Marks / Portland ( I am assuming that was the dealership)




According to Turning Wheels dated February 1994,Volume # 26, Issue # 2 it shows the following total production numbers for the 16G8 Commander Custom 2 Door Sedans


Before January 1955 (16G8-F1) and After January 1955 (16G8-F2)

16G8F1 = 606
16G8F2 = 606
South Bend Total = 1,212


16G8F1 = 85
16G8F2 = 85
Los Angeles Total = 170


16G8F1 = 14
16G8F2 = 14
Canada Total = 28


Exported = 3


Total = 1,413




Thanks in advance for your help.

55Cmndr

stude dude
07-04-2013, 09:12 PM
Nice looking car! I have always been intrigued by '55 2 door sedan models.

My guess is that someone has added the 1954 Commander side trim to dress it up at some stage. Also looks like they have filled the vertical body seem between the side and rear quarter panels.

Chris.

StudeRich
07-04-2013, 10:55 PM
You know most everything already from your Production Order. However yours is a F2 Wraparound Windshield Car and also a Los Angeles Production Car, so that makes it one of only 85.

"Movie" is the Dealer ordering code for a Commander Custom 2 Door Sedan with Overdrive.

I assume Fred Fox got those numbers from a reliable source for his article but they sure seem impossible with all Factories having matching numbers of early Straight Windshield cars, and late Wraparound Windshield Cars.

The first Los Angeles 1956 Commander was: 8449101, I don't know how your '55 Serial #8848238 could be higher.
8843001 was the first, second generation LA '55 Comm. :confused:

Quote Chris: "My guess is that someone has added the 1954 Commander side trim to dress it up at some stage."
Yes Chris that makes a lot of sense, the optional trim kits would be to add the '55 Regal or Deluxe trim to a Custom model, but not the '54 Trim.

Studebakercenteroforegon
07-04-2013, 11:13 PM
Marks Motors was a well established Studebaker dealer in Portland, OR. (1706 E. Burnside St.)

Spannerbird
07-04-2013, 11:17 PM
How is this called a sedan with only 2 doors?

Swifster
07-05-2013, 12:18 AM
How is this called a sedan with only 2 doors?

F's are sedans, C's are coupes and K's are hardtops.

I've always liked the 2-dr sedans. It would take a lot of restraint to not fill in the side seam. They just look so much better without it. I like the mouldings on that too. That's a real nice looking car.

55cmndr
07-05-2013, 12:37 AM
Thanks for for all of your input.

Quote Rich:

The first Los Angeles 1956 Commander was: 8449101, I don't know how your '55 Serial #8848238 could be higher.
8843001 was the first, second generation LA '55 Comm. :confused:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich, I looked again making sure my information was correct.

When I looked thru the figures again this what I found out for the Vernon produced Commanders
1.The 16G8F1 Commander with the 224 V8 Serial numbers started at 8841201 and ended at 8843000

2.The 16G8F2 Commander with the 259 V8 Serial numbers started at 8843001 and ended at 8849083.
With mine somewhere between 8848238 and 8849083.

I also found something interesting about the serial numbers.

It says:

The Champion,Commander and President serial number spans are greater than the production figures because serial numbers were stopped and restarted
( at the nearest 100) when the revised models were introduced in January 1955

Quote Chris: "My guess is that someone has added the 1954 Commander side trim to dress it up at some stage."
Yes Chris that makes a lot of sense, the optional trim kits would be to add the '55 Regal or Deluxe trim to a Custom model, but not the '54 Trim.

Can someone tell me what trim that I do have?

Thanks

StudeRich
07-05-2013, 02:44 AM
As I said, they are 1954 Trim Mouldings on the rear quarter panels and Doors.

My info is the same as yours, it came from the '55 to '58 Chassis Parts Catalog, I did not bother with the early '55 Numbers since yours is not one.

However this is not correct: "With mine somewhere between 8848238 and 8849083."

Your Car IS 8848238.

stude dude
07-05-2013, 03:25 AM
F's are sedans, C's are coupes and K's are hardtops.

I've always liked the 2-dr sedans. It would take a lot of restraint to not fill in the side seam. They just look so much better without it. I like the mouldings on that too. That's a real nice looking car.

They do look good with the wide vertical moulding and spear on Regal models. Its a very interesting trim design that thankfully covers up that seam.

Chris.

StudeRich
07-05-2013, 03:53 AM
How is this called a sedan with only 2 doors?

This gets a little hard to explain because no lines of Cars in the 50's Had 2 Dr. Sport Coupes AND 2 and 4 Door Sedans in the same year model like Studebaker did.

But lets try this, compare the height and looks of say a '67 Camaro 2Dr. Hardtop, to a '67 Impala 2 Dr. Hardtop.
Yes there ARE 2 and 4 door Sedans with a door post and also 2 and 4 Door Hardtops without a post, ALL Sedan Bodies really, compared to a long low Camaro (sport coupe) or Studebaker C or K body.

Yes I know GM and Ford did not refer to their Hardtops as Sedans, even though they basically were, but Studebaker or the owners of '58 Sedan Hardtops have to call them that to differentiate them from Hawk Hardtops.
I know I may have you more confused, but try to read between the lines here please and understand this.

Yes Dorothy their are 2 and 4 Door Sedans, even in Kansas! :D

I think nowadays the term 2 Door Sedan has been replaced by simply "Coupe" and a 4 Door is a Sedan. Because now Toyotas, Mazdas, Hondas etc. only make the TWO body styles in each size of Car and the rear half of a Coupe may look a lot different than a Sedan (4 Door), some with a sloping hatchback.

Swifster
07-05-2013, 06:39 AM
A hardtop is a hardtop is a hardtop. No makes hardtops anymore except maybe the Mustang. Coupes have stationary or swingout glass. Two door sedans have roll down back glass.

snowy_buffalo
07-05-2013, 09:31 AM
A hardtop is a hardtop is a hardtop. No makes hardtops anymore except maybe the Mustang. Coupes have stationary or swingout glass. Two door sedans have roll down back glass.

So by your definition of coupe vs sedan......my 1964 Daytona 2 dr Hardtop is actually a 2 dr sedan because the rear quarter windows roll down inside the fender instead of swinging out??

Swifster
07-05-2013, 10:13 AM
Do you have a structural 'B' pillar. It's a hardtop, just like my '64 Daytona. My '64 Commander 2-door is a sedan.

Studebaker even lists it's cars the following way; F = sedan, C = Coupe and K & J are hardtops.

The '68, '69 and '70 Plymouth Roadrunner was available as coupe or hardtop. The coupe had flip out windows.

studegary
07-05-2013, 01:46 PM
Your car, S/N 8848238, is a late 1955 Commander assembled in the Vernon (LA), CA plant.
It was 848 Commanders from the last Commander assembled in Vernon.

studegary
07-05-2013, 01:50 PM
How is this called a sedan with only 2 doors?

Sedans have upper door frames and B-pillars, hardtops do not.
Most all manufacturers built two door sedans and four door sedans at that time.
A coupe is usually smaller/lower and with a smaller rear seat than a sedan.
In recent times, the terms have been confused/misused. Now there are two door sedans that are called coupes and two door hardtops that are called coupes.

studegary
07-05-2013, 01:57 PM
1956 Commander [/U]was: 8449101, I don't know how your '55 [B][COLOR=#0000ff]Serial #8848238 could be higher.
8843001 was the first, second generation LA '55 Comm. :confused:

]

Rich - Please look at the numbers again. Vernon (LA) assembled 1955 Commanders ran from S/N 8841201 - 8849083. His car, 8848238, falls within this range.

studegary
07-05-2013, 02:03 PM
A hardtop is a hardtop is a hardtop. No makes hardtops anymore except maybe the Mustang. Coupes have stationary or swingout glass. Two door sedans have roll down back glass.

There are several other true hardtop models being currently offered, including M-B E-coupe, M-B CL coupe, Bentley Continental GT, ---.
Also, many retractable hardtop models currently offered could be considered hardtops when their tops are up.
BYW, I do not consider the new Mustang to be a hardtop. It doesn't have an upper door frame, but it does have a fixed B-pillar.

55cmndr
07-05-2013, 02:34 PM
Your car, S/N 8848238, is a late 1955 Commander assembled in the Vernon (LA), CA plant.
It was 848 Commanders from the last Commander assembled in Vernon.


Thanks Studegary for the clarification:)

Is there a way to find out when the 55's ended and 56's started since mine had a final assembly date of 8/12/55?
and out of the 848, how many could have been the same model as mine?

Is this something i should run past the Studebaker museum archives?


I am trying to gather as much history on the car as possible.

Again thanks


55cmndr

studegary
07-05-2013, 02:47 PM
Thanks Studegary for the clarification:)

Is there a way to find out when the 55's ended and 56's started since mine had a final assembly date of 8/12/55?
and out of the 848, how many could have been the same model as mine?

Is this something i should run past the Studebaker museum archives?


I am trying to gather as much history on the car as possible.

Again thanks


55cmndr

You are most welcome!

The Fred Fox feature articles in Turning Wheels on the 1955 and 1956 sedan models may give you more information, such as production start and end dates. You should at least have the 1955 issue for the information contained.

The information exists in the SNM Archives, but unless you do it yourself, it would be VERY expensive to pay them to go through most all of the production records.