Fuel System: Starting Issues

[57Kelii]

Hello, I changed the spark plugs on my '53 Studebaker 6 Cyl. but now for some reason the engine won't fully start. I think for some reason the engine isn't getting the fuel it needs....any ideas on why? (I think it may have to do with the fuel pump, although I do need a carb. rebuild since it's leaking) - Kelii

[BobPalma]

If all you did was change the spark plugs, it sounds like you've upset the firing order by placing some of the wires on the wrong plugs.

You say it won't "fully start," which implies it is trying to start, so some of the wires are on the correct plugs and some aren't. Check the firing order and make sure each wires is on "its" plug. BP

[57Kelii]

I followed the order of the firing order and distributor given to me by the forum members, and even back to the wrong order before...neither would work. The starter engages and the engine turns over about once or twice then stops...

[Swifster]

I'll go with Bob. Sounds like there's some plugs wires on the wrong plug.

[BobPalma]

Kelli: OK, let's start from scratch.

First Question: Did you remove the distributor from the engine?

Or: Did you loosen the distributor hold-down bolt and rotate the distributor a little in either direction, without removing it? BP

[57Kelii]

I did not touch the distributor, I just repositioned the wires according to how they are supposed to fire on the engine and replaced the spark plugs.

[altair]

starting

Hello, I changed the spark plugs on my '53 Studebaker 6 Cyl. but now for some reason the engine won't fully start. I think for some reason the engine isn't getting the fuel it needs....any ideas on why? (I think it may have to do with the fuel pump, although I do need a carb. rebuild since it's leaking) - Kelii

Start from scratch, remove the distributor cap and rotate the engine observing the direction of the rotor and stop on IGN (also top dead centre) and note where the rotor is pointing, that is #1 firing, then following the direction of the rotor next is #5,3,6,2,4. Does the engine fire once or twice or just turn over once or twice? Was it running OK before with out any issues? Dave

[57Kelii]

Start from scratch, remove the distributor cap and rotate the engine observing the direction of the rotor and stop on IGN (also top dead centre) and note where the rotor is pointing, that is #1 firing, then following the direction of the rotor next is #5,3,6,2,4. Does the engine fire once or twice or just turn over once or twice? Was it running OK before with out any issues? Dave

What do you mean by rotate the engine? The car doesn't fire, but turns over. Before, the car was running but wasn't idling consistently due to the fact the order was not correct. A day before at a car show, a mechanic who worked on ww2 vehicles at a museum adjusted the carburetor to idle a bit better.

[Milaca]

This may offer some help:


Information borrowed from Bob Johnstone's Studebaker website:

http://www.studebaker-info.org/rjtechx4.html#Engines

[jclary]

Kelli, So far, there have been some good suggestions regarding your problem. However, keep in mind that few doctors would attempt to examine and diagnose a patient by computer, phone, or any other remote communication method outside of a hands on up close examination. My question would be why you started by changing the plugs in the first place? I'm not being critical, because "Plugs" being worn and fouled are often the culprit in poor running engines. However, your problem could also be something as simple as the tiny rub block on your points inside the distributor wearing down and causing the point gap to lose its optimum setting. This tiny little gap can really upset the smooth operation of an engine. Another thing to consider is that some past owner could have improperly installed the distributor and then arranged the plug wires to make it run correctly. If that is your case (and believe me, I have seen it done), orienting the wires to the manual specs will never work if the distributor body is installed out of position. I have an engine that has a distributor 180 degrees out of phase. However, with the wires arranged so that the firing order is still correct, it runs just fine.

These engines are very simple, but, they do require a bit of study and understanding of the sequence of events for them to run properly. As I have said before, they are a tinkerer's dream, but for those who expect to run them a hundred thousand miles between tune-ups like a modern car...they are a nightmare. My thinking is that you are in a "car crazy" part of the country with some fine folks knowledgeable about the operation and quirks of Studebaker engines. It would be good if you could get a fellow local SDC member to mentor you and assist in diagnosing and solving your problem.

Problem is...California is larger than lots of countries, let alone "states" and some of us in other parts of the country have difficulty wrapping our brains around the concept of the distance between "Local" SDC members in a state as large as yours.

When I change spark plugs, I change them one at the time and only remove one wire at the time. In your situation, if your distributor is installed correctly, placing the wires in the order specified by the manual should provide good, smooth running, ....as long as the plug gap is correct, plug wires are good, the distributor cap is good, the rotor is good, points are good, point gap is good, condenser is good, coil primary and secondary circuits are good, and the carburetor is working properly. Just to mention a few other tiny items that make a big impact.

I'm not trying to be a smart-Alec (family friendly expression), but all these things have to be addressed. Good luck with the problem solving, and let us know what resolves the problem.

[JimC]

So, if I read this correctly, you're saying the wires were out of order before you started? How many were out of order? It seems to me that on a 6 cylinder, even if you only had two out of place, the whole thing would run horribly. Can you post the order that the plugs were in at the start of this project?

[57Kelii]

Well I wanted to change the plugs because the order was wrong and I wanted the engine to perform better. I also needed to learn more about vintage cars....I don't really have a family to help me on this...and every time I took it to a mechanic, they'd not really let me watch since they are so busy...so I have to try and study from books, but hands on training is easier. Working on a 60 year old car not knowing how everything properly works makes it hard for me.

[57Kelii]

So, if I read this correctly, you're saying the wires were out of order before you started? How many were out of order? It seems to me that on a 6 cylinder, even if you only had two out of place, the whole thing would run horribly. Can you post the order that the plugs were in at the start of this project?

I'm not exactly sure what the order was before, and the picture I had before shows the wires but blocked the distributor. I have to assume the distributor was placed incorrectly by the mechanic who rebuilt it. Which is why the order may be wrong. I need to check the distributor if it's in the right position.

[jclary]

Well I wanted to change the plugs because the order was wrong and I wanted the engine to perform better. I also needed to learn more about vintage cars....I don't really have a family to help me on this...and every time I took it to a mechanic, they'd not really let me watch since they are so busy...so I have to try and study from books, but hands on training is easier. Working on a 60 year old car not knowing how everything properly works makes it hard for me.

Hey...If its any comfort to you, some of us have worked on these cars for 60 years and still don't know how they work!
Then some of us used to know...but forgot...

It's a never ending process...

[altair]

What do you mean by rotate the engine? The car doesn't fire, but turns over. Before, the car was running but wasn't idling consistently due to the fact the order was not correct. A day before at a car show, a mechanic who worked on ww2 vehicles at a museum adjusted the carburetor to idle a bit better.

Rotate by engaging the starter or turn by hand by grasping the belt and turning or turning the big 1 1/2" crank shaft nut. Do this with the distributor cap off so you can see the rotor turning and stop the crank shaft on the IGN mark and where the rotor is pointing will be #1 firing position the follow the order from there. Dave