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Lothar
08-31-2007, 04:13 PM
I have a 1950 Champion that I'm trying to bring back to life. One of the first orders of business is to replace fluids and lube everything. That includes the steering box. The shop manual for my car, in the lubrication section, tells me to "use a lubricant approved by the Ross Gear and Tool Co. of Lafayette Indiana." Ross Gear and Tool no longer exists, at least not under that name, nor do they seem to have any lubricants to sell or even approve. Stude International sells something that they call "semi-fluid" steering box grease, which I'm sure is fine stuff, but what's special about it? Is it acceptable to use 140 weight grease? Will it dissolve the gears? Will my steering wheel come off in my hand? Does anyone know the viscosity and lubrication characteristics for a lubricant that is appropriate for this car's steering box? Perhaps it goes without saying that the 1950 Champion has the "Armstrong" power steering system. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

rusty nut garage
08-31-2007, 06:51 PM
You be surprised how easily this car will steer once the steering and suspension components are back to servicable condition.
Many guys are using CV joint grease. I'm not sure if this type of grease is available in a cartridge that you can load in a grease gun. Getting the grease from a tub into your steering box will require you take off the side cover and pack it by hand.
The grease that stude internation sells comes in a tube which would make it easy for filling the box, but pricy IMHO.
Personally I'd try lubriplate #105. Its a white lithium semi-fluid grease that is readily availabe and also comes in a tube or cartridge.
Russ

quote:Originally posted by Lothar

I have a 1950 Champion that I'm trying to bring back to life. One of the first orders of business is to replace fluids and lube everything. That includes the steering box. The shop manual for my car, in the lubrication section, tells me to "use a lubricant approved by the Ross Gear and Tool Co. of Lafayette Indiana." Ross Gear and Tool no longer exists, at least not under that name, nor do they seem to have any lubricants to sell or even approve. Stude International sells something that they call "semi-fluid" steering box grease, which I'm sure is fine stuff, but what's special about it? Is it acceptable to use 140 weight grease? Will it dissolve the gears? Will my steering wheel come off in my hand? Does anyone know the viscosity and lubrication characteristics for a lubricant that is appropriate for this car's steering box? Perhaps it goes without saying that the 1950 Champion has the "Armstrong" power steering system. Any help or advice would be appreciated.


Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

JDP
08-31-2007, 07:39 PM
I made a adapter out of a few brass fittings and a Zerk that fits in the fill hole, then just pump the grease in with a gun.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
58 Scotsman
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

rusty nut garage
08-31-2007, 07:42 PM
What kind of grease are you using ?? Can you get the CV grease in a cartridge, or are you just using and all purpose grease??


quote:Originally posted by JDP

I made a adapter out of a few brass fittings and a Zerk that fits in the fill hole, then just pump the grease in with a gun.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
58 Scotsman
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)




Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

Laemmle
08-31-2007, 07:42 PM
I purchased a 5 gallon pail of special steer grease from Kendall...I have enough for one million years!


quote:Originally posted by Lothar

I have a 1950 Champion that I'm trying to bring back to life. One of the first orders of business is to replace fluids and lube everything. That includes the steering box. The shop manual for my car, in the lubrication section, tells me to "use a lubricant approved by the Ross Gear and Tool Co. of Lafayette Indiana." Ross Gear and Tool no longer exists, at least not under that name, nor do they seem to have any lubricants to sell or even approve. Stude International sells something that they call "semi-fluid" steering box grease, which I'm sure is fine stuff, but what's special about it? Is it acceptable to use 140 weight grease? Will it dissolve the gears? Will my steering wheel come off in my hand? Does anyone know the viscosity and lubrication characteristics for a lubricant that is appropriate for this car's steering box? Perhaps it goes without saying that the 1950 Champion has the "Armstrong" power steering system. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

JDP
08-31-2007, 08:17 PM
Ask N8, but I think we used something from Redline.

JDP/Maryland
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
64 GT R2
63 Lark 2 door
58 Scotsman
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

Lenny R2
08-31-2007, 10:24 PM
I used the stuf advertised in T.W.by 9Gwoman.it comes in a
cartrige & you put it in a caulking gun.I added this to
what ever was in my Avanti steering box in 2003 & it hasent
leaked a drop.Thats more than i can say about the engine &
trans leaking.


Lenny
Atlanta Ga.

N8N
08-31-2007, 10:31 PM
I like Redline CV-2 but I've been buying Mobil 1 synthetic lately because it is available at my FLAPS and is recommended for both chassis lube points and wheel bearings (I like to use one of those little bearing packers to speed things along.) Can't say how it works in a Ross box but you probably could do worse. It isn't as viscous as your average wheel bearing grease which is the key; you really want something that will get into all the nooks and crannies. 140W gear oil is for topping up only; it's not thick enough to properly protect that @#$$#% box.

Which reminds me... JP, do you need me to pick you up another grease gun hose?

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

hank63
09-01-2007, 09:48 AM
"Downunder" we can buy "liquid grease". One has to warm it up to pour, but it's magic for steering boxes.
/H

blackhawk
09-01-2007, 10:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by rusty nut garage

You be surprised how easily this car will steer once the steering and suspension components are back to servicable condition.
Many guys are using CV joint grease. I'm not sure if this type of grease is available in a cartridge that you can load in a grease gun. Getting the grease from a tub into your steering box will require you take off the side cover and pack it by hand.
The grease that stude internation sells comes in a tube which would make it easy for filling the box, but pricy IMHO.
Personally I'd try lubriplate #105. Its a white lithium semi-fluid grease that is readily availabe and also comes in a tube or cartridge.
RussRuss - Those Ross gear boxes need an extreme pressure grease. Lubriplate makes lubricants for extreme pressure applications, but I don't believe 105 is one of them. Check the Lubriplate spec chart. Also, just want to point out that you can pack grease into most grease guns yourself. You don't need to have a prepacked cartridge. We filled grease guns out of a big can of grease long before someone invented the grease cartridge. Just be carefull to not get air pockets in the grease. Dale

Mr Mike
09-01-2007, 11:17 AM
I don't know is this is applicable for your model but the shop manual for my '60 Hawk with a Ross gear box says to use 80-90 mineral oil - the same as used in the std trannies
Mr Mike

rusty nut garage
09-01-2007, 12:35 PM
Your right, I forgot about filling the grease guns manually. Now that you mention it I remember Dad packing the guns from a 5 gal pail.
I liked the lubriplate idea due to its semi-fluid consistensy. I have a tube of the GM saginaw grease and its much the same consistensy I hadn't thought of the EP requirements.
The problem we all have with the comparisions of the steering gear lubes, 1. we talk about a ross and then someone else talks about a saignaw recirculating ball type. The ross originally called for 80-90 mineral oil, the saiginaw a semi-fluid grease thats NLA. Your mentioning the extreme pressure requirements of the ross with its sector pin and worm gear. I wonder if the recirc ball saginaw needs the extreme pressure. Come to thing of it I wonder if the CV grease is a extreme pressure lube. Going synthetic might be the ticket.
Of course the reason people are using the grease is because the ross steering gears are in such bad condition that the seals won't hold the oil. Unless you go to the trouble of installing new bushing and getting the steering gear back to A-1 shape the seals won't ever hold the oil. A good grease is better than no lube so that what we end up doing.
Russ

quote:Originally posted by blackhawk


quote:Originally posted by rusty nut garage

You be surprised how easily this car will steer once the steering and suspension components are back to servicable condition.
Many guys are using CV joint grease. I'm not sure if this type of grease is available in a cartridge that you can load in a grease gun. Getting the grease from a tub into your steering box will require you take off the side cover and pack it by hand.
The grease that stude internation sells comes in a tube which would make it easy for filling the box, but pricy IMHO.
Personally I'd try lubriplate #105. Its a white lithium semi-fluid grease that is readily availabe and also comes in a tube or cartridge.
RussRuss - Those Ross gear boxes need an extreme pressure grease. Lubriplate makes lubricants for extreme pressure applications, but I don't believe 105 is one of them. Check the Lubriplate spec chart. Also, just want to point out that you can pack grease into most grease guns yourself. You don't need to have a prepacked cartridge. We filled grease guns out of a big can of grease long before someone invented the grease cartridge. Just be carefull to not get air pockets in the grease. Dale


Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

curt
09-01-2007, 01:38 PM
How hard is it to rebuild a Ross Box? Are parts avaliable ,is it mostly clean and relubercate the box if you are not having problems....except seepage?

rusty nut garage
09-01-2007, 02:28 PM
See this link.
http://www.ncsdc.com/TechnicalPages/55steering/55steeringrebuild.htm
In lieu of replacing the sector pin or pins, you can press them out, turn them 90deg. effectivly placing the unworn portion of the pin in mesh with the worm gear. Bushing are readily available and are pressed in and out using a hyd press and appropriate arbors. Most cased the new bushing once installed will have to be reamed to fit.
Russ


quote:Originally posted by curt

How hard is it to rebuild a Ross Box? Are parts avaliable ,is it mostly clean and relubercate the box if you are not having problems....except seepage?


Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

nels
09-01-2007, 09:25 PM
I would think if you pumped grease into a steering box with a grease gun adapted and screwed into the box you would blow the seals out. I don't think the boxes are vented?
Also, I prefer a synthetic lubricant in the steering boxes, especially the V8. The box on the V8 is right next to the exhaust manifold and it gets very hot. The original grease thins out to a consistancy of water and runs out the seal. That's why they are always dry. The synthetic will hold its viscosity at elevated temperatures and therefore stays in the box.

dclewallen
09-02-2007, 05:24 PM
How bout this Green Grease stuff I saw on TV its synthetic and waterproof?

Darryl C. Lewallen Clarkesville, Ga.

blackhawk
09-03-2007, 03:57 AM
quote:Originally posted by rusty nut garage

Your right, I forgot about filling the grease guns manually. Now that you mention it I remember Dad packing the guns from a 5 gal pail.
I liked the lubriplate idea due to its semi-fluid consistensy. I have a tube of the GM saginaw grease and its much the same consistensy I hadn't thought of the EP requirements.
The problem we all have with the comparisions of the steering gear lubes, 1. we talk about a ross and then someone else talks about a saignaw recirculating ball type. The ross originally called for 80-90 mineral oil, the saiginaw a semi-fluid grease thats NLA. Your mentioning the extreme pressure requirements of the ross with its sector pin and worm gear. I wonder if the recirc ball saginaw needs the extreme pressure. Come to thing of it I wonder if the CV grease is a extreme pressure lube. Going synthetic might be the ticket.
Of course the reason people are using the grease is because the ross steering gears are in such bad condition that the seals won't hold the oil. Unless you go to the trouble of installing new bushing and getting the steering gear back to A-1 shape the seals won't ever hold the oil. A good grease is better than no lube so that what we end up doing.
RussThe Saginaw recirculating ball gearbox does not need the extreme pressure grease. A good grade of chassis lub will do just fine. I use Lubriplate Mag-1 for the steering gearbox and chassis zerks on my '64 Larks because it gets really cold here in interior Alaska but when I lived in a warmer climate I just used the same Lubriplate 1200-2 grease in the steering gearbox that I used for the chassis. I really don't have a source for extreme pressure grease for the ross units like in my Hawk. The original stuff is NLA. Occassionally someone will recommend an alternate produce, but I'd really like some assurance that it works before trying it! Dale

Lothar
09-04-2007, 09:49 AM
Wow!
Thanks for your attention to this arcane topic. I got much more of a response than I anticipated. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a consensus among the responses. It seems that most agree that I need an EP grease. Beyond that, CV joint-rated grease seems to be a viable option? My steering box does have a zerc on it. I don't know if that is after-market or not. I have bought and intend to replace the bushing (seal?) at the bottom of the steering box, but I didn't realize that it needs to be pressed in (perhaps I bought the wrong thing?) It looks like there might have been some sort of seal or rubber grease cup right above the clamp (?) with two bushings and cotter-pinned nuts at the bottom of the steering shaft. I can't get much out of the shop manual on this assembly, because they don't have a good diagram of it.

Lothar
'50 Champion
Holdrege NE

blackhawk
09-04-2007, 11:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by Lothar

Wow!
Thanks for your attention to this arcane topic. I got much more of a response than I anticipated. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a consensus among the responses. It seems that most agree that I need an EP grease. Beyond that, CV joint-rated grease seems to be a viable option? My steering box does have a zerc on it. I don't know if that is after-market or not. I have bought and intend to replace the bushing (seal?) at the bottom of the steering box, but I didn't realize that it needs to be pressed in (perhaps I bought the wrong thing?) It looks like there might have been some sort of seal or rubber grease cup right above the clamp (?) with two bushings and cotter-pinned nuts at the bottom of the steering shaft. I can't get much out of the shop manual on this assembly, because they don't have a good diagram of it.

Lothar
'50 Champion
Holdrege NE
Lothar - FWIW, both Mag-1 (http://www.f-bacon.com/lp-glow.htm) and Mag-00 (http://www.f-bacon.com/lp-gmag.htm) have an extreme pressure additive. I did not know this untill i looked up the specs again for my previous post. I do not know whether this means they are adequate for the Ross application but either would be better than 105, which is usually used to coat cams, etc. during engine assembly. Both are also very thin greases. The Mag-00 is actually listed as "semi-fluid". I am hoping someone reading this post will give testimonial for other products. There has to be members who have replaced the lubricant in their Ross gearboxes and have enough miles on their vehicle since doing so to know by now whether the lubricant has adequate extreme pressure capabilities. Dale

rusty nut garage
09-04-2007, 12:09 PM
The boxes are actually vented. The top of the box, where the sector shaft exits the box case, isn't sealed. Its open to atmosphere. If you keep pumping the grease it would just keep migrating up the shaft inbetween the sector shaft and post jacket.


quote:Originally posted by nels

I would think if you pumped grease into a steering box with a grease gun adapted and screwed into the box you would blow the seals out. I don't think the boxes are vented?
Also, I prefer a synthetic lubricant in the steering boxes, especially the V8. The box on the V8 is right next to the exhaust manifold and it gets very hot. The original grease thins out to a consistancy of water and runs out the seal. That's why they are always dry. The synthetic will hold its viscosity at elevated temperatures and therefore stays in the box.


Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

Lothar
09-06-2007, 10:21 AM
Dale
Thanks for pointing me toward Lubriplate Mag-00. Lubriplate advertises it specifically for "leaking gear boxes" so it sounds like the right stuff. Of course this good stuff comes at a price. Lubriplate sells it for $34.50 for a 2 Lb. (1 Qt.) bottle. Still a small price to pay for easier steering. I presume that this is pretty stiff stuff that won't go through a grease gun easily. Lubriplate doesn't even sell it in cartridges. THerefore, I will have to take off the cover on the steering box and pack it. I intend to try to dig out the old grease, but should I do any more than that? Do I dare use a solvent to clean it out? If so, what? Is kerosene OK?

Lothar
1950 Champion
Holdrege NE

blackhawk
09-07-2007, 11:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by Lothar

Dale
Thanks for pointing me toward Lubriplate Mag-00. Lubriplate advertises it specifically for "leaking gear boxes" so it sounds like the right stuff. Of course this good stuff comes at a price. Lubriplate sells it for $34.50 for a 2 Lb. (1 Qt.) bottle. Still a small price to pay for easier steering. I presume that this is pretty stiff stuff that won't go through a grease gun easily. Lubriplate doesn't even sell it in cartridges. THerefore, I will have to take off the cover on the steering box and pack it. I intend to try to dig out the old grease, but should I do any more than that? Do I dare use a solvent to clean it out? If so, what? Is kerosene OK?

Lothar
1950 Champion
Holdrege NE
Lothar - actually I think Mag-00 is just the opposite. It is listed as a "semi-fluid" lubricant for cold weather. I expect it is quite thin and will be easy to squirt into the gearbox with a ross gun, grease gun (pack it yourself) or plastic squeeze bottle like you sometimes buy honey in or gear lub comes in. I have used the 5555 lubriplate, listed on the same link above, and Mag-1. Both are very thin. The Mag-1 is available in cartridges. I buy them by the case. The specs are the same except it is grade 1 instead of 00.

I don't know how you'd get the old grease out with the gearbox in the car unless there is room to remove the cover. Kerosene would be a good choice for solvent as it is not caustic but i don't think it will just dissolve the grease on contact in a place where you can't help it along with a cleaning brush and screwdriver. Then how do you get it all out with the unit upright in the car? If the grease in the steering box is not all caked up with age and is low so more can be added, you might gain enough ground by just topping the box off with the Mag-00. Not as good as replacing the old stuff but it might be good enough. I suspect greases are pretty compatible but don't know so definitely don't take my word for it.

Dale