Frame / Springs: 63 Wagonaire Frame

[Rerun]

The 63 Wagonaire with the sliding roof has the front balance weights like the convertible. Should it also have the heavy X-member in the frame?

[rockne10]

Not an authority but, I believe sliding roof wagons require the additional structure.

[bezhawk]

The sliding roof wagons had the heavy X member. Fixed roof's did not.

[studegary]

I will add one more YES.

[Rerun]

Very interesting. The '63 Daytona wagon in question is a sliding roof type. It has the single center body mount in front, along with evidence of the weights having once been installed (now missing). The frame (presumed to be original) does not have the heavy X-member. The car is out of CA, with very little rust on the frame or body. There's got to be a good story behind this one.

BTW, can anyone explain the "cowl shake" that lead to the unusual body mount and the large weights? This wagon drives fine with the weights missing.

[Warren Webb]

I experienced cowl shake on my 62 convertible after I had removed them. Shook like the dickens especially after going over RR tracks above 35mph. Drove back to the shop & reinstalled the weights. Now a sliding roof wagon has at least some roof structure especially lengthwise, that the ragtop doesn't have. It should have the X member though, don't ask why.

[Rerun]

Are there any Wagonaire owners (sliding or not) who can confirm the presence or absence of the X-member on your car?

[candbstudebakers]

Every 63-66 wagonaire with a sliding roof that I have owned and there have been a lot all had the heavy "X" member and the only non slider 63 that I had did not have it, I do have a very nice 63 with the "X" member standing in my shop right now.

[StudeRich]

Yes all of us including myself that have owned Wagonaires did have the X-Member in the Frame, yours is the only one known to this point that may have been re-framed with the wrong frame.
Any signs that the X has been Cut Out?

Usually, when you get to 60 and above the cowl shake comes up from the front grille panel and seems to end at the rear view mirror, shaking it within a inch of it's life.

It would seem that if the Radiator Support to frame reinforcement and the front panel weights show signs of having been there as you say, the BODY was a Wagonaire, the Frame maybe not!

[Rerun]

Gentlemen, thanks for the input.

The '63 in question has the front center body mount and marks from where the weights were once installed. There is no X-member, or evidence of there having been one. The locations on the frame where the body mount assembly fastens have threaded plugs welded in (rather than through holes for long bolts, like on a sedan). Is this the way that the bar was normally fastened from the factory, or might it be something done during a frame swap?

Without benefit of any history of the car, it looks like this one may remain a Studebaker mystery.

[christophe]

Don't forget to check the hidden serial number located underneath the rear crossmember of the frame. If it does match the serial number of the body, both came off the line together.
Nice day to all.

[blackhawk]

Jim,

I suggest that you consider leaving those weights off your '63 sliding roof wagon if you are not experiencing any cowl shake when driving it. The extra weight on the front will negatively impact both handling and fuel consumption. I had a '63 sliding roof wagon for many years while my children were young. One of the first things that I did was remove the heavy weights on the front of the car. I put over 400,000 miles on that car before retiring it from use. It drove fine. There was not any cowl shake at any speed. This may not be the norm for these station wagons, but mine at least did not shake without the weights. I had a '61 4-door station wagon before getting the '63. The '63 with its heavy x-member and sliding roof leaned heavily when cornering and gas mileage dropped, even though both cars were similarly equipped with 259 V8 engines and 3-speed overdrive transmissions. I figured that the last thing it needed was more weight on the front end.

Dale

[SScopelli]

The heavy weights are there because the "X" frame cars have floating dog houses. Look in the grille and you will see a U shaped tube and the radiator support. There is an engine mount for its center mount and thus the counterweights to keep it stable.. Like a tight rope walker balance pole..

All the harmonics of the engine, transmission rear axle, and wheel imbalance, play a role in the "shake." Most Studebaker bodies have rubber pads isolating the body from the frame. For the convertibles, they are steel pad/shims and the harmonics transfer is more pronounced.

I would recommend keeping them on a convertible, especially if driving highway speeds, for this reason.

[dustybob]

Jim, I just looked at JWW's '63 Slider out in my garage. It has the X frame as well as the weights. I have been doing some long overdue maintainence items. Hope to be on the road by this weekend.

Dustybob

[blackhawk]

The heavy weights are there because the "X" frame cars have floating dog houses. Look in the grille and you will see a U shaped tube and the radiator support. There is an engine mount for its center mount and thus the counterweights to keep it stable.. Like a tight rope walker balance pole.

I had forgotten about this until you mentioned it. My '63 had a radiator support like you describe. I remember wondering where this strange setup had come from. There was no one to ask back then. Studebaker had long since gone out of business and there was no SDC forum. My '63 came from the wrecking yard. The front sheet metal was in bad shape. So, I replaced it with fenders, grill and hood from a '64. While doing so, I replaced the u-shaped tube setup with one that bolts the front end to the frame like on the other models and left off the heavy weights. It drove okay when I was done, so I never gave it a second thought... until now.

I must admit that the heavy X-member on the frame sure took a lot of flex out of the frame and body. I think that '63 wagon is the only Studebaker that I have owned where you could open and close the doors without them binding while one corner of the car was jacked up.