Brakes: Brake pedal won't depress, at all, GT Hawk??

[GThawkwind]

Hi guys this is kind of a vague one but I figured maybe one of you, have had the same problem before? I'm looking at a 1963 GT Hawk, and figuring what it's gonna take to get her moving under her own power again. I wanted to meet the owner check out a few more things then start this thread, but he doesn't want to go down to his shop until I'm ready to deal, so I'm not sure what brakes it has, decently optioned car, but I doubt it has discs, probably power drums by the look of things, when I was giving it the initial looking over I noticed the brake pedal won't move free, the has sat for 20 years, the car is in neutral, but I beleive with the E brake on, I didn't push too hard on it, but what I'm wondering is this a bad sign, could this just be the e brake, are the presumably frozen drums causing, have you dealt with this before? Just throwing it out there to see if you guys have a clue what I'd be up against here, and maybe you could tell me signs that might tell me what it is when I go to look, or things it might be if it is power discs, or manual drums, or power drums. it's four speed if that helps.

[Warren Webb]

Open the hood. If there is not hydrovac booster on the left inner apron then it is manual brakes. Naturally if there is a booster there then it has power brakes. Turn the front wheels to the stop & look for the caliper on disc brake cars mounted in front of the king pin. I believe disc brake cars also had the firewall mounted reservoir mounted on the firewall to the left (as your looking at it or right side of the car) of the distributor.

If the brake pedal doesn't move at all as you said, then the most likely cause will be the master cylinder being frozen up, although being it's mounted under the car it is subjected to everything in the air for the past 20 years & the pivot for the pedal assy may be frozen up. Does the clutch linkage work? If it is the master they are easily obtained and can be ordered from our many vendors, just tell them if it has disc brakes or not.

[StudeRich]

If he will let you see it, look for the Bendix Hydovac Power Brake Booster on the Left inner fender, that usually means Disc Brakes, they usually have a remote reservoir on the right firewall, a metal bottle shaped can.
You also could just look under the car at the front side of tire for a Disc and Caliper.

Sitting that long, any or all of the wheel cylinders could be seized (frozen) either way it will need a complete Brake overhaul anyway, the only problem is moving it to a trailer, you will have to use a winch to drag it if you don't jack it up and try to free it up first. You could put it on some wheel dollies to move it or put something slippery under the wheels like a drip pan.

If the e-brake is on, you will see the handle is pulled out.

[GThawkwind]

Open the hood. If there is not hydrovac booster on the left inner apron then it is manual brakes. Naturally if there is a booster there then it has power brakes. Turn the front wheels to the stop & look for the caliper on disc brake cars mounted in front of the king pin. I believe disc brake cars also had the firewall mounted reservoir mounted on the firewall to the left (as your looking at it or right side of the car) of the distributor.

If the brake pedal doesn't move at all as you said, then the most likely cause will be the master cylinder being frozen up, although being it's mounted under the car it is subjected to everything in the air for the past 20 years & the pivot for the pedal assy may be frozen up. Does the clutch linkage work? If it is the master they are easily obtained and can be ordered from our many vendors, just tell them if it has disc brakes or not.

Heres a few under hood pics can you tell? and yes the clutch linkage feels great.

[StudeRich]

These must be cellphone Pics, they are too fuzzy and there is not enough light. I don't THINK I see a Brake booster in there, as much as can be seen anyway.

[PlainBrownR2]

I have a good example from an R2 Hawk last year, with the Hydrovac booster and the remote reservoir bottle:



The Hydrovac booster is the item in front of the battery in the picture, and the remote reservoir is the pill bottle shaped device, that's to the left of the windshield wiper motor that's hanging on the firewall. I don't see either of those items in the pictures above, and if they're not present, they're either missing, or it's probably a manual drum vehicle. I'm banking that it's a four wheel drum vehicle. If the remote reservoir is not on the firewall, there should be an access cover on the driver's side floor, which you remove to get to the cap on the master cylinder on the outer frame rail under the driver's door.

I had to do the same thing with the '55, but if it's been sitting for 20 years, the whole system is gonna need to be gone through. It's not just because things are stuck, but also because the lines underneath might have rusted through.

[GThawkwind]

Heres a pic I worked on a bit with photo bucket, I don't see it, Do you? Yikes that means manual drum brakes for me, I'll mention that to the owner when were working out price

[GThawkwind]

My right leg is gonna be so beefy, I hope

[PlainBrownR2]

Hehehe, I dunno if I'd go that far. I still have manual drums on the '55, and if everything is filled and working correctly, they'll do the job without any trouble. Now when you get to ones like my Lark with the power drums, and the booster goes out like I've had on a couple of occasions, then yeah, you're standing on the pedal to bring it to a stop.

[GThawkwind]

My Mom had a 77 coupe de ville daily driver, man if you ran oughta gas in that thing and had to stop it, now that was fun So the manual drums aren't that bad then?

[PlainBrownR2]

I have a 2R5 and a '55 C/K with manual brakes, and my former daily driven Lark had power brakes. The manual brakes on those vehicles don't need a heavy foot to stop the car, but since I was driving the Lark in suburban traffic where I needed to make some quick stops in a hurry, I wanted every "modern amenity" on it that Studebaker provided(well except with going to complete disc brakes). However, since it was an old car, it had old car problems, so on a couple of occasions over the past 10 years, I have popped the diaphragm on the booster, that equated to having a MAJOR vacuum leak, which left me with having to increase the stopping distance, and remembering that it took a heavier foot to bring it to a stop. I'd say that whether going to manual or power brakes is left to the opinion of the owner, so rebuild what's currently under the car, and if it's not to your liking, then add the Hydrovac, remote reservoir and disc brakes later on.

[r1lark]

Actually I still prefer non-boosted brakes. Learned to drive on non-boosted brakes, both drum and disc.

[StudHawk60]

My 60 Hawk has manual drum brakes, just takes some getting used to. Besides, they add to the adventure of driving an old car.

[SN-60]

Heres a pic I worked on a bit with photo bucket, I don't see it, Do you? Yikes that means manual drum brakes for me, I'll mention that to the owner when were working out price

Looks like no power brakes OR steering......not the best combo, but I sure wouldn't walk away from that Hawk because of it!

[studegary]

I don't see a body number plate in the picture. Does it have one (may just be the picture)? More important, does it have its original serial number plate?

I would rather have the standard brakes. Price all of the parts for a power disc brake rebuild and the price of a manual drum brake rebuild. That may convince you that you also like the standard brakes.