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View Full Version : Paint: 1964 Avanti Red, also GM Pompein Red and GM Honduras Maroon



jnfweber
04-02-2013, 02:41 PM
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I just took my Avanti R-1 to the local paint shop and inquired at the local paint supplier (H-O Auto, Parts Plus) regarding the correct formula. I will have the car painted in a single stage Ful-Cryl II Acrylic Enamel SS, cataloged as 4034 ID, GM Corp Code 50, Color: Pompein Red-Effect. I have attached the formula to be mixed. Also a photo of my Avanti, which has the original paint, though faded, spidered, and oxidized, and a brand new (1960's) Corvette with shiny paint of the [same] color. I am hoping there will be several comments, and probably some advice as well. I don't plan on having a clear coat, as it eventually will flake, but probably not in my lifetime.

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ddub
04-02-2013, 04:01 PM
Don't look the same color to me in those pictures.

Skip Lackie
04-02-2013, 04:12 PM
Hondouras Maroon has always been one of my favorite colors. But I agree that your Avanti looks more reddish and much less maroonish.

SN-60
04-02-2013, 05:23 PM
I'm not really sure about that Corvette color. (Although I like it very much) But would like to suggest to You NOT to use the Acrylic enamel, even with hardener added, with ANY red color. If Your Avanti will be parked in the sun much, You'll probably get significant fade...and I don't mean years down the road! I believe that a single stage URETHANE enamel, in the color of Your choice, will not only 'lock the color in' better, but will be more forgiving over that fiberglass body. (In My opinion)

Green53
04-02-2013, 07:53 PM
I think the paint code is the same for Hondouras maroon and Avanti Red are the same but the GM color seems to be darker. Even in modern colors they may have up to 3 shades for the same code. I found this to be true on a Maroon 94
Dodge pickup that I owned.

Denny L

Warren Webb
04-02-2013, 09:18 PM
Back in the late 60's,early 70's I worked for my dad in his body shop. We used mostly R-M but sometimes Dupont had a better match. I do remember that R-M used the same paint formula for both Honduras Maroon & Avanti red. One thing I did notice back then was Dupont would change the formula number that other manufacturers would carry over their number. I have thought it was their way of selling more paint when the shop may have had the older number on their shelf.

I just checked my PPG book & found that Avanti Red code #P-6334 has the same PPG number as 62 Chevrolet Honduras Maroon code 948. The PPG number is 50568 for both.

bezhawk
04-02-2013, 11:00 PM
Avanti red iridescent has a gold metal flake, not silver. The Honduran Maroon is does not. It has aluminum flake, and more trans-oxide toner to achieve the yellow cast. It will not look the same. They both lack depth and clarity and look like a sick tomato. (not PC, but true):eek::rolleyes:

Milaca
04-02-2013, 11:04 PM
The Corvette paint doesnt look metallic though it is probably just the lighting. Aside from that, what color of primer did Studebaker use under this color? I assume the color of primer would modify the appearance of the paint.

SN-60
04-02-2013, 11:42 PM
The Corvette paint doesnt look metallic though it is probably just the lighting. Aside from that, what color of primer did Studebaker use under this color? I assume the color of primer would modify the appearance of the paint.

Thats's a good point....reds are poor 'hiding' colors. If a minimum amount of paint is used, the undercoat color will effect the end result.

plwindish
04-03-2013, 12:26 AM
It might be my eyes, but I don't see a match in color on the two cars. The Avanti looks red to me, while the Vette is definitely Maroon. I think my car is a closer match to the Honduras Maroon you're looking for.

jnfweber
04-03-2013, 07:05 AM
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Hondouras Maroon has always been one of my favorite colors. But I agree that your Avanti looks more reddish and much less maroonish.
I agree with your comment. I like the Hondouras Maroon color better than the "tomato red" my Avanti appears to be. But colors on a computer are not always accurate, and my car looks different on a cloudy day than in the direct sunlight. The car spent several years in the California sun [and fog] sitting out in Tustin, CA, and has probably faded a bit. It definitely looks like a metallic color as well. Here are a couple of photos of the inside of the trunk, which will show less fading.

jnfweber
04-03-2013, 07:08 AM
The Corvette paint doesnt look metallic though it is probably just the lighting. Aside from that, what color of primer did Studebaker use under this color? I assume the color of primer would modify the appearance of the paint. Hard to tell, since there aren't a lot of chips in the paint, but from what I can see, it looks like the primer may have been pink, white, or light gray.

jnfweber
04-03-2013, 07:12 AM
I'm not really sure about that Corvette color. (Although I like it very much) But would like to suggest to You NOT to use the Acrylic enamel, even with hardener added, with ANY red color. If Your Avanti will be parked in the sun much, You'll probably get significant fade...and I don't mean years down the road! I believe that a single stage URETHANE enamel, in the color of Your choice, will not only 'lock the color in' better, but will be more forgiving over that fiberglass body. (In My opinion) I'll check and see what my painter and supplier think about urethane enamel. I don't know if the spray quality and drying time would be the same. Let me know what you think.

jnfweber
04-03-2013, 07:19 AM
Avanti red iridescent has a gold metal flake, not silver. The Honduran Maroon is does not. It has aluminum flake, and more trans-oxide toner to achieve the yellow cast. It will not look the same. They both lack depth and clarity and look like a sick tomato. (not PC, but true):eek::rolleyes: Well, that's an interesting point of view! I have seen lots of photos of 63-64 Avanti's and favor the more "maroon" flavor. John Metzger's car is beautiful and looks more on the maroon side, and most of the 63-64's I have seen, including original advertising by Studebaker, are more "maroon" than "sick tomato".

jnfweber
04-03-2013, 07:36 AM
Don't look the same color to me in those pictures. 22732 227332273422735

Fresh paint on a cloudy day looks different than old paint in direct sunlight. Here are some examples I got from Bob Johnston's Avanti registry. The last one is mine.

SN-60
04-03-2013, 08:47 PM
It might be my eyes, but I don't see a match in color on the two cars. The Avanti looks red to me, while the Vette is definitely Maroon. I think my car is a closer match to the Honduras Maroon you're looking for.

Whatever color red (maroon) Your Avanti is.....it REALLY looks nice!!!!!

Warren Webb
04-04-2013, 12:14 AM
Avanti maroon carried a different color code (P-6336) & is listed in the PPG book as their #50683.

StudeRich
04-04-2013, 03:33 AM
Folks there is no doubt that the '63 Avanti "Red" PPG 50568 was the beautiful Honduras Maroon Metallic, it had lots of RED in it. There were a few early '64's painted that color. :)

But the '64 Color PPG 50683 was called Avanti "Maroon" which is way more Oxblood, darker and is actually Burgundy. :( IMO = :eek:

The inside of Jack's Trunk lid is the only Color posted so far, that looks correct for the '63 Avanti RED.

53k
04-04-2013, 09:14 AM
Folks there is no doubt that the '63 Avanti "Red" PPG 50568 was the beautiful Honduras Maroon Metallic, it had lots of RED in it. There were a few early '64's painted that color. :)

But the '64 Color PPG 50683 was called Avanti "Maroon" which is way more Oxblood, darker and is actually Burgundy. :( IMO = :eek:

The inside of Jack's Trunk lid is the only Color posted so far, that looks correct for the '63 Avanti RED.
This is an example of Avanti Maroon though the light here makes it appear a little darker than it really is. When I had it ('64 R-2, 5420) repainted the painter took an unexposed body part (the inside of the gas door) to the paint supplier. They scanned it and matched it to a Winnebago color which was right on.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Avantis/64%20Avanti%20w%20Cragars.JPG

R1 3137
04-04-2013, 12:39 PM
well just to keep things muddy here are shots of original paint still on the car with an inside pillar shot to help account for fading...2275722758
I always remembered the color as more Maroon or Burgandy than Red but not near as dark as the Vette.

JBOYLE
04-04-2013, 07:06 PM
Don't trust (digital) photos when it comes to red cars.
My Avanti Red 63 comes out looking plain red when I shoot it with my digital camera....just check out this year's AOAI calendar and see for yourself.

plwindish
04-05-2013, 12:42 PM
SN-60, Thanks. The previous owner had the car painted at a body shop in Warrenville IL in 1989 from its original Tawny Gold. The repaint color, (no codes given) was listed as a dark red metallic. Last year I put body mirrors on the car and went to a paint supplier that used the spectra-graph (looks like a camera) on the hood and came up with a paint code used on Hyundi's. The paint was about $100 for a pint. Its a close enough match, but appears just a shade darker. Before I had the paint matched, I used touch-up paint from my Dark Red Pearl 2010 Honda Crosstour that was very close.

okc63avanti
04-06-2013, 08:12 AM
Then there are heretics like me who paint their avanti in more of a Crimson Red. Guess what school I'm an Alumni of? Hint: they have won 3 of last 4 BCS National titles.

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/1963%20Studebaker%20Avabti/63%20Avanti%2063-R2386/IMG00317-20120729-0758.jpg

Color ~ Chrysler/Dodge "Inferno Red Crystal Pearl Coat"


Roll Tide Roll !!!

SN-60
04-06-2013, 08:41 AM
Then there are heretics like me who paint their avanti in more of a Crimson Red. Guess what school I'm an Alumni of? Hint: they have won 3 of last 4 BCS National titles.

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/1963%20Studebaker%20Avabti/63%20Avanti%2063-R2386/IMG00317-20120729-0758.jpg

Color ~ Chrysler/Dodge "Inferno Red Crystal Pearl Coat"


Roll Tide Roll !!!

That Chrysler color looks absolutely beautiful on Your Avanti! (Or should I say Your Avanti looks more beautiful because of that Chrysler color!! ?)

plwindish
04-06-2013, 11:51 AM
We heretics have an eye for what looks good on an Avanti! I'll have to check out the Inferno Red Crystal Pearl Coat to see if that's what my car was painted, 'cause it looks really close. Your 63 is a knock out in that color with the mags.

jnfweber
04-06-2013, 01:35 PM
Whatever color red (maroon) Your Avanti is.....it REALLY looks nice!!!!!


The car that REALLY looks nice !!!! is an R-3, R-5013 in Amsterdam, Netherlands, from Bob Johnstone's Avanti Registry [a nice source to look at various Avanti's of various colors and shades of Avanti Red] (and maroon). http://www.studebaker-info.org/avantix5.html. Mine is the more "faded Avanti Red", which is passable at 50 feet, as well as the lead car in my signature, which I thought was "very patriotic" as the red, white, and blue. However, those colors are more like the Russian Federation flag, although my other Avanti [R-2] which I sold, is more like the old Soviet Union "hammer & sickle red", which is the same (unless it has hung out for several years and is faded) red as the People's Republic of China flag. <g> My other Avanti [R2] which I sold last summer for $12,200, R-4212, is still under my name at Bob Johnstone's Avanti Registry, direct link to photo http://www.studebaker-info.org/AVDB1/R4000/63R4212/63R4212a.jpg, which was for re-sale at $17,500 [good luck with that] on Craigslist, Butte, MT, but is NLA listed.

jnfweber
04-06-2013, 01:55 PM
Painter, Ken Cook's Collision, in Anaconda, Montana, also recommends and will use urethane enamel, with a clear coat, which he thinks will be better with the red color. He has done my two Cruisers in white and blue, single stage acrylic enamel. I am very satisfied with his work, and these cars will probably remain under light dust colors in my 8 car unheated garage [another subject for discussion] until I die and the whole collection is sold by my heirs at auction. <g>

jnfweber
04-06-2013, 02:29 PM
Just had to post a REALLY BIG photo of my R2 4212 I sold last summer, with my youngest grand-daughter at Fairmont Hot Springs (after I sold it). Notice how different light and shadow changes perceived color of the paint, which was done at least 17 years ago, and has been covered in garage since then.

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa455/jnfweber/Avanti%20R-2/Dsc05099_zps0e64a701.jpg

okc63avanti
04-06-2013, 08:09 PM
That Chrysler color looks absolutely beautiful on Your Avanti! (Or should I say Your Avanti looks more beautiful because of that Chrysler color!! ?)

Michael Myer did the paint job using BASF R-M paint (Rinshed-Mason). The PPG paint code is PRH. After preparing the body the car was painted with a gray primer and then painted with the RM paint. The Inferno Red Crystal Pearl Coat is a two step paint with a base and then a clear coat. It bright sunlight it is more of a bright red with gold flecks and in shade it has a very nice crimson red color.