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jdbass
03-26-2013, 02:05 PM
The starter in my 58L Packard motor (in a 57 GH) is shot... I got this starter off a 60 Lark VIII with a 259...
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb4/hellihooks/DSCN5513.jpg
Old starter on left... new(er) starter on right.
Also... looks identical... will the rear end from the 60 lark VIII work for a Hawk? thx... jim

plwindish
03-26-2013, 02:34 PM
My starter experience is limited to installing a couple of rebuilts over the years, but the longer nose of the starter drive gear might indicate the gear travels further into the flywheel that the older one would, causing problems.

52-fan
03-26-2013, 03:04 PM
The difference in the nose piece makes me wonder if one is for an automatic and the other for a standard transmission. In any case you would probably be ahead to replace the starter with a matching one or get yours rebuilt.

Skip Lackie
03-26-2013, 04:35 PM
52fan is correct. The nose piece and bendix drive for automatic and standard shift are different and will not interchange. If the bendix is still good on your old starter, just swap the nose pieces and bendixes.

jdbass
03-26-2013, 07:26 PM
Thx Skip and others... yeah... tried switching nose piece...no go... way too different in several ways. Back to sq 1...
The rear end seems identical and bolts right in... no gear ratio problems or such, that I need to be concerned about? Again... rear end from 60 Lark VIII (259, auto) going in 57 GH, with 58L(289) 3 speed OD manual (T-86) thx..,. jim

rockinhawk
03-26-2013, 07:42 PM
One starter looks like a Delco. The other an Autolite. Parts won't interchange.
Rear end should work. ratio depends on what you want it to do.
My silverhawk is V8 od with a 3.54 it works great. Iput the same gearset in a Scotsman Truck 6 cyl od, and it was too high. I had to down shift on the slight hills of south Ga.

StudeRich
03-26-2013, 08:21 PM
No a Rear Axle from a '60 Lark VIII Automatic will NOT live or work in a '58 Packard 289 4V.

The Ratio can be checked by reading the tin Tag under a bolt on the rear cover at 7:00 or 8:00, but it will say 3.07, or possibly 3.31 for Automatic.

With your Overdrive you will need 3.73 and no higher (lower numerically) than 3.54

The other issue will be that the Lark unless it's a wagon will be a Dana Model 27, not strong enough for your Car.

jdbass
03-26-2013, 09:21 PM
No a Rear Axle from a '60 Lark VIII Automatic will NOT live or work in a '58 Packard 289 4V.

The Ratio can be checked by reading the tin Tag under a bolt on the rear cover at 7:00 or 8:00, but it will say 3.07, or possibly 3.31 for Automatic.

With your Overdrive you will need 3.73 and no higher (lower numerically) than 3.54

The other issue will be that the Lark unless it's a wagon will be a Dana Model 27, not strong enough for your Car.

well... that figures.:o how bout if I went back to auto, with the auto from the Lark? never easy, on a shoestring...:rolleyes: thx for the heads up, Rich...:!: jim

JoeHall
03-26-2013, 09:51 PM
Lots of us are on a shoestring, and that must be taken into consideration here, as well as the grocery store,etc.

Per the 1959-1964 Shop Manual, many overdrive equipped Studes came with 3.07 rear gears. If your 57 GH has a T85, it will be just fine with whatever gears are in the 60 Lark. But consider yourself real lucky if it has 3.31 gears, as they will be a better match than 3.07. Yes, 3.54-3.73 would be preferred, esp if you are concerned with light to light acceleration, but 3.31 or 3.07 will also work, but will be a little doggier. It will not be a safety concern, nor will it hurt the car to run those gears. Who knows, you might take a liking to the taller gears and leave them in there ! I have ran a 3.31 with OD in a 56J for many years and over 100,000 miles.

If it is a model 27, just don't do any burnouts, and you'll be OK. Burnouts are not even a good idea with model 44.

If your 57 has a T86 tranny, it will still be OK with the tall gears, but with the higher 1st gear, and higher OD ratio, it will be a little more doggier.

Trust me, been there-done that, in all the above. It will be OK if you don't dog the car.

StudeRich
03-26-2013, 10:36 PM
And Joe, how much more torque than a Power Kit 289's 305 ft. lbs. did your 352 with 3.31's have? :)

Studeous
03-27-2013, 12:59 AM
I believe the Dana 23 will require a longer drive shaft. About an inch. Go measure your differentials.

JoeHall
03-27-2013, 08:02 AM
I believe the Dana 23 will require a longer drive shaft. About an inch. Go measure your differentials.

About 3/4"; more than enough slip space in the two piece drive shaft.

JoeHall
03-27-2013, 08:07 AM
And Joe, how much more torque than a Power Kit 289's 305 ft. lbs. did your 352 with 3.31's have? :)

I know Rich, but he's makin do on a shoestring for now. That set up will do just fine. Ain't gonna hurt the 259/289. As mentioned, a little doggier, but the car will go anywhere and do anything he needs it to do with that set up. Best of all, it will then be a "rolling project", which sometimes helps to keep one's enthusiasm high enough to press on with the project. I know I'd probably have "ran out of gas" on a couple if I couldn't have been driving and enjoying them while fixing them up.
Heck, AMC installed a 2.31 in their 258 CID six cylinder cars, which used an automatic near identical to Stude (Flash-O-Matic?). I know, the OP has an overdrive, but just sayin.

rkapteyn
03-27-2013, 08:31 AM
See Ray,s page
http://www.raylinrestoration.com/TechnicalPages/Starters/StarterID.htm
Robert Kapteyn

jdbass
03-27-2013, 09:06 AM
1st of all...thx to everyone... you guys are amazingly helpful...:!!: This Lark is at a junkyard and was amazingly complete... only windshield and front quarter panel missing... the motor and auto trans seem to be good, and the rear end I pulled seems fine as well. unfortunately... the id tag is missing on the rear end, as are a couple of rear cover bolts (from fluid drain?) so I gotta guess the gearing would be stock with what the car came with (3.07?)
The upshot is... the junkyard (ecology) is having a 1/2 price weekend soon (4 /7-8) and I'm thinking that since my car was not originally a manual shift and I'm not trying to build a hot rod... it might be a good idea to go back to an auto, which I KNOW goes with that rear end. I wouldn't think that the difference tween a 259/289 would matter much? and hey...the starter would work too...:lol:
meanwhile...anybody know where I might find/buy a starter for a T-86? thx jim
BTW... there is another 62(?) base model Lark (6 cyl/no trim) there, that is even more complete and in remarkedly good shape... body straight, no rust, interior intact, ect. don't know if 1/2 off applies to whole cars, but if so... could be a hell of a deal... couple of hundred bucks for a complete Lark? :ohmy: Ecology in Adelanto, off Hgh 395, west of Victorville Ca....:!:

jdbass
03-27-2013, 09:44 AM
Heck, AMC installed a 2.31 in their 258 CID six cylinder cars, which used an automatic near identical to Stude (Flash-O-Matic?).
Funny you mention that... I have an 83 AMC 4 wheel drive Eagle wagon, with the 258 CID six... all the torque in the world, but no top end.
I THOUGHT I had non-op'd the car, 5 years ago when I parked it... and never heard from the DMV since... cause it turned out they had my address wrong on the registration. When I went to buy the rear end/starter last Sun... my debit card kept coming back 'declined'.... turns out the DMV, through the Tax Franchise Board, attached my bank account, and took all my money, for past registration dues. Wonders NEVER cease...:ohmy: Now I'm looking at having to sell the Eagle JUST to pay the back registration...:mad: Along with some even more ludicrous things that have happened to me this year (search warrants served at my home for rattlesnakes)... this has not been a banner year.:( cyaaaaaaaaaaaa lol jim

jdbass
03-29-2013, 09:31 PM
About 3/4"; more than enough slip space in the two piece drive shaft.

Hey Joe,
As Studeous thought...driveshaft came out an in or so short (Which means it's a Dana 23?). Are you saying there's enough play (slip space) to make it work? I tried tugging it out a bit... no go... long day... tired... maybe try again in the morning...:rolleyes: jim

JoeHall
03-29-2013, 11:22 PM
Hey Joe,
As Studeous thought...driveshaft came out an in or so short (Which means it's a Dana 23?). Are you saying there's enough play (slip space) to make it work? I tried tugging it out a bit... no go... long day... tired... maybe try again in the morning...:rolleyes: jim

I am pretty sure you will find there's enough travel in the slip joint to fit. Worst case scenario, I'd drill an extra set of holes in the perches to slip the rear end forward 1/2" or so, but I doubt that will be necessary.

studebakerkid
03-30-2013, 03:23 AM
Dont go drilling another hole in the perches.....you do that and the danged wheels will not fit in the wheelwells right

JoeHall
03-30-2013, 08:31 AM
Dont go drilling another hole in the perches.....you do that and the danged wheels will not fit in the wheelwells right

As for tire clearance, there's plenty enough to move it forward 2-3 inches. Main concern would be changing angle or rear end be moving it forward on the arched spring, but 1/2" would not be enough to matter, esp with the 57GH's near flat spring. Like I said, probably not necessary anyway, but certainly do-able if needed.