Electrical: Finding a short/electric help?

[deco_droid]

I have a no start condition and "think" I have a short. I used a multimeter which shows 6V at the battery, but when I turned the key and checked the coil, it shows zero, and I thought I read here that if that is the case, I have a short in the distributor somewhere. I changed out the points and replaced the wire going from the points out, because it was frayed. The wire I used was some spare wire I had used on a previous instrument wiring project. Not sure if that is my problem, but I figured wire was wire. So I am posting a photo of what it looks like with the cap and rotor off to see if anyone has any ideas as to what the problem could be. Thanks much. -----edit, well I tried to upload the pic and having some problems I guess. Any ideas until I can get the photo on here? Thanks guys...

[63 R2 Hawk]

It sounds like you have an "open" rather than a "short". If you had a short that pulled 6 volts down to zero, you'd probably have some smoke to go along with that. Was everything working OK prior to replacing the wire? If the wire you replaced is the one inside the distributor, it is usually a special flexible wire so the breaker plate constantly advancing and retarding as you drive won't cause it to fatigue break over time, but any should work for now. Do you have -6v from the ignition switch to the coil "hot" ign side? Are the points properly gapped? Is the condenser known to be good? Could be lots of things.....

[deco_droid]

Thanks for the reply -- I don't claim to know much about electrical. I just needed to change the points because they were burnt out, so I got a set from SI, changed that, plus the condenser. Then I noticed the inside wire was frayed and might be an issue so I changed that out. I did gap the points.

How do I check the ignition switch to the coil though? I just put the red rod on one side of the coil and the black on the other, and it just read zero with the key turned on, so I knew something was wrong.

One thing I did do was pull all my gauges out because I have been cleaning/restoring them, but all I did was just unplug everything and label it. Like I said I don't know much about electrical, but that wouldn't cause a no-start issue, would it? Thanks for any help...

[41 Frank]

When testing for voltage with your tester you would hook the red probe to the wire at the coil and the black to a good ground.

[BobPalma]

What Frank said, Lloyd; unless the points are closed, you will get no reading across the two smaller coil terminals.

You haven't said if this is a cranking issue or a starting issue per se; does the engine crank OK and just not "fire?" BP

[gordr]

If the points happened to be open when you did the test you did, you would read zero volts, because there is no voltage drop across a device with no current flowing through it. Ohm's Law is your friend!

Assuming the car is stock, and wired with the battery positive grounded, connect the red lead of the meter to a good ground, and probe the various test points with the red lead. Ignition on, the "hot" side of the coil primary should read about 6.3 volts with the points open. Ditto for the points side of the coil. (if the coil terminals are marked (+) and (-), the former goes to the points, and the latter to the ignition switch) Points close, the hot side of the coil should read a little lower, due to voltage drop in the wiring, but still pretty close to a full 6 volts. And the points side should read pretty darn close to zero.

Don't attempt to measure voltage at the high voltage tower in the middle of the coil.

[bezhawk]

Frank's not exactly right....if you hook up the meter with the red as being plus....you will get negative deflection on the meter needle.
You have Positive ground on your car. Did you set the point gap with the distributor cam on the high spot? The points must be set with the rubbing block on the highest area of travel, you keep bumping the engine till it stops on a high spot.

[deco_droid]

What Frank said, Lloyd; unless the points are closed, you will get no reading across the two smaller coil terminals.

You haven't said if this is a cranking issue or a starting issue per se; does the engine crank OK and just not "fire?" BP

Thanks guys -- Sorry, yes, this is just a start/fire issue, because it cranks fine. I will read all the comments here and test my coil again when I get off work.

Hmmm, reading that again, I think the points were closed when I tried to test the coil, because I opened the points with a plastic knife to see if I could find a spark, but no spark. That's when I thought maybe I had something wired wrong.

[StudeRich]

Quote: "One thing I did do was pull all my gauges out because I have been cleaning/restoring them, but all I did was just unplug everything and label it. Like I said I don't know much about electrical, but that wouldn't cause a no-start issue, would it? Thanks for any help..."

Taking all of the Gauges out will cut ALL of the Power from the Solinoid to the Ammeter, there will be no power at the Ignition Switch to power up the Coil.

[deco_droid]

Quote: "One thing I did do was pull all my gauges out because I have been cleaning/restoring them, but all I did was just unplug everything and label it. Like I said I don't know much about electrical, but that wouldn't cause a no-start issue, would it? Thanks for any help..."

Taking all of the Gauges out will cut ALL of the Power from the Solinoid to the Ammeter, there will be no power at the Ignition Switch to power up the Coil.

Really? Wow, thanks so much for the info. I'm glad I mentioned it. I was trying to get it running first, but I have all the gauges cleaned and put back together now, so I guess I had better re-install them. I don't understand why it would matter that the gauges are out, but if that's my problem, at least it is easy to resolve. I'll update when I get them put back in tonight.

[Skip Lackie]

Really? Wow, thanks so much for the info. I'm glad I mentioned it. I was trying to get it running first, but I have all the gauges cleaned and put back together now, so I guess I had better re-install them. I don't understand why it would matter that the gauges are out, but if that's my problem, at least it is easy to resolve. I'll update when I get them put back in tonight.

All of the power (except for that provided to the starter motor by the big heavy cable, and a few things like the horn relay) goes through the ammeter. So taking the ammeter out of the circuit cuts off all power to the ignition switch.

[deco_droid]

Okay, update --- I got the gauges back in and guess what, after a bit of sputtering, the car did finally start! Now the bad news, it started and died out a couple of times when I let off the gas, probably because of the cold and just from sitting so long. So anyway, tried starting again and now.... I get no crank at all. Checked the battery and it has a full charge. No clicking, no nothing. So has my starter died on me now? Is there a way to test it or do I need to pull it off and take it to an auto store. I think I had autozone test a starter for me years ago. Please let me know what you would do. This is the third whammy for me now -- had the fuel pump go out, points burned out, and now, something else. Thanks for any help, guys.

[StudeRich]

Have you checked the small wire at the Solenoid and the 2 large Cables to the Starter and to the Batt. for clean, tight, good connections and Power through the Solenoid. Test Head lights for power.

Are you using a Wiring Diagram for correct connections?

[Skip Lackie]

Agree with Rich. No clicking noise means no power to the solenoid, and doesn't say anything about the starter, one way or the other.

[deco_droid]

Thanks guys, that was sort of a false alarm, because I fiddled with the wires a bit and found the one to the solenoid was brittle, so I went ahead and replaced it, and the battery cables since the connectors were looking pretty bad as well. So anyway, now I can finally get the car to fire and run, but it runs really rough and if I let off the gas it sputters and dies. Since I have been working on getting this car back on the road for so long, I am guessing that now the fuel could be suspect. It has probably been in the tank since November which I am guessing would likely cause it to run rough. So I went to drain the tank and the fitting has like 1/4 inch square hole to turn it. I found a square socket that will fit, but I need to know, am I supposed to turn clockwise or counterclockwise, before I waste a lot of time forcing it the wrong way... I would guess it is counter clockwise to drop the fitting thing down, but wanted to check first. Thanks much. One more thing, once I drain the gas, where would you dispose of it? I checked autozone and they say no parts places take old gas. I would guess I have about 8 or 10 gallons to get rid of.