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289stude
03-12-2013, 07:10 PM
Really?!?!?! Where do they get this *#@~. It's not even full flow. Obviously no supercharger maybe the hood is fiberglass but that's about it. Almost sounds like he heard tales of an R3 Avanti and tagged it to his run of the mill hawk.


Well at least he's not asking the world for it.


Ebay # 121079981312 (tel:121079981312)

Corvanti
03-12-2013, 07:23 PM
link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/64-hawk-gt-bonneville-prototype-granatelli-supercharged-v-8-posiFAST-FUN-/121079981312?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1c30ede500

"prototype"? really??? :rolleyes::yeahright:

289stude
03-12-2013, 07:26 PM
I'm not trying to rip on anyone's ad but C'mon man 5 min research on the Internet or this forum rather and he would realize none of what he's claiming is true. Well exept for the shifter ;)

swvalcon
03-12-2013, 07:40 PM
I saw this to but couldn't get it to post. Door panels are not even right for a 64. No numbers but would bet it is a 62-63. Prototype maybe thats it a prototype 62 with a 64 trunk.

studefan
03-12-2013, 07:43 PM
The owner says it's serial number 64V-0010 on the door post.

StudeRich
03-12-2013, 07:44 PM
Well I'll give him that his "granTorismo" IS modified alright!
A left hand mounted Alternator, a weird Distributor, a R1/R2 Fuel Pump, modified fan Shroud, NICE Carb. Rod!, '63 Door Panels, NO Tach. '62 Side Grilles and a nice close-up of the GM Alternator, I wonder if he thinks that is the "Supercharger" it is supposed to have? :confused:

'64 Bonneville Super Hawk, yeah right! NO Tach.! Also it appears to have NO Serial Number Plate, I doubt it is even a '64 even WITH a '64 Body Tag ! :eek:

Chris Pile
03-12-2013, 07:55 PM
Anyone have the guts to log on and tell him he's full of it?

BobPalma
03-12-2013, 07:56 PM
The owner says it's serial number 64V-0010 on the door post.

That would be pretty good, Jeff, since they started with 64V1001. (But then again, he does say it is rare and experimental, so maybe they were experimenting with lower Serial Numbers than normal, too!)

Geeze, you gotta' feel sorry for someone so delusional.... :eek: BP

studefan
03-12-2013, 08:03 PM
Here is the response I got when asking about the engine number and car serial number:

"There is no engine serial # stamped jtsa401/doortag -64v0010"

It doesn't make sense. He says there's no engine number and but then throws something out close that starts with jts ...

StudeRich
03-12-2013, 08:10 PM
I am not throwing out the "POSSIBILITY" that this Car WAS something Special as a Prototype ONCE, BUT is has been messed with a LOT since if it ever WAS once "Special"!

Maybe he got the Engine Number from some documentation he has instead of the Current "Replacement Engine" itself.
If so, he needs to produce it, post it or something.

allstateguy
03-12-2013, 08:11 PM
isn't that an SDC sticker in the side window? I hope he doesn't spread any more "information" than this eBay ad.

64V-K7
03-12-2013, 08:12 PM
Anyone have the guts to log on and tell him he's full of it?

I sent him some advice...

ken-renda
03-12-2013, 08:45 PM
Strange Ebay listing: For about 2K more than his asking price, google "studebakers forever" and see what 2K more will buy. Amazing. Ken Deltaville, Va

studebaker-R2-4-me
03-12-2013, 08:56 PM
I have to feel sorry for this car, not the owner. Who would do that to a 1964 Hawk? I particularly like the throttle linkage (Coat Hanger Wire). I not sure what the fuel pump is but it is not a R1/R2 Carter, I just rebuilt mine today with a kit and it does not resemble the one in this car. The seller is dreaming in technocolor for a $16,000 Buy It Now. What a sad looking car.

Allen

63 R2 Hawk
03-12-2013, 10:11 PM
Did Studebaker or Granatelli ever build a car like this??? Says it's supercharged, but sc is cleverly concealed. I'm not skeptical, of course...........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Studebaker-hawk-gt-granTorismo-64-hawk-gt-bonneville-prototype-granatelli-supercharged-v-8-posiFAST-/121079981312?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1c30ede500#ht_500wt_1182

Since it doesn't have a battery (or stock battery tray), it's OK that there's no hold down though......;)

showbizkid
03-12-2013, 10:16 PM
... it's FRANKENHAWK!!! http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/f/frankenstein-1918.gif

Corley
03-12-2013, 10:18 PM
[QUOTE= I'm not skeptical, of course...........[/QUOTE]

I'm thinking maybe you should be (skeptical).

BobPalma
03-12-2013, 10:22 PM
We're already on this, Ed:

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?69769-64-factory-fiberglass-bonneville-GT-Hawk-prototype

GThawkwind
03-12-2013, 10:26 PM
I saw this earlier when I was checking up on sals car, I almost started the thread but now I see I was beaten to it I can't believe this guy, did you see all the overspray on the plug wires!!!!

Sharkonwheels
03-12-2013, 10:42 PM
I saw this earlier when I was checking up on sals car, I almost started the thread but now I see I was beaten to it I can't believe this guy, did you see all the overspray on the plug wires!!!!
...and on the hood prop rod, and on the carb throttle return spring... and on... Oh, never mind.

63 R2 Hawk
03-12-2013, 10:44 PM
Sorry... didn't see the other thread, I have been busy checking the torque on my battery hold down fasteners.... ;)

Jessie J.
03-12-2013, 11:00 PM
What I'm wondering about are those "Fiberglass fenders, hood, doors, trunk, rear quarters, from factory!????"
'Fiberglass fenders' yep could well be, but 'hood, doors, trunk, rear quarters' how likely is that ???
Bondo and chicken wire? Anyone ever seen a fiberglass '64 trunk lid?

BobPalma
03-12-2013, 11:03 PM
What I'm wondering about are those "Fiberglass fenders, hood, doors, trunk, rear quarters, from factory!????"
'Fiberglass fenders' yep could well be, but 'hood, doors, trunk, rear quarters' how likely is that ???
Bondo and chicken wire? Anyone ever seen a fiberglass '64 trunk lid?

Apparently, Jesse; you have now! :eek: BP

BobPalma
03-12-2013, 11:13 PM
Sorry... didn't see the other thread, I have been busy checking the torque on my battery hold down fasteners.... ;)

EXCELLENT, Ed....a worthy endeavor, to be encourged at all times!

Congratulations on properly prioritizing things. :!: BP

Green53
03-12-2013, 11:25 PM
I will be over to see Vince Granatelli in the next week or so and can ask but I am sure he will say it is bogus.

Denny L

63 R2 Hawk
03-12-2013, 11:47 PM
I DO kinda like the round gas door with the side opening hinge. I curse the designer who created the top hinged door every time I try to put gas in my tank from a gas can.....

JimC
03-13-2013, 12:04 AM
Sorry, I stopped listening when I saw the shed handles on the hood. What's going on?

:D

showbizkid
03-13-2013, 12:25 AM
Do ya think maybe if it was a racer it would have come equipped with a tach instead of a clock?

candbstudebakers
03-13-2013, 12:26 AM
He might just stop the auction at any time as he has had people beating down his door for the proto type car, you guys will miss out on it, so you better hit the BIN.

Chris_Dresbach
03-13-2013, 01:10 AM
The seller probably heard the story about Studebaker setting all the land speed records in 1963 and probably meant to say "This is the same model of car that raced at Bonneville in 1963." (I hope that's what they meant, anyway.) As for the prototype statement, I am very skeptical of this one. If that body tag is original, I think the body number would be a heck of a lot lower. Besides that the true prototype for the GT Hawk model would have been built mid-year 1961 for the 1962 model year; not 1964.

Chris_Dresbach
03-13-2013, 01:12 AM
The body tag in the listing says it is body #410. Does anybody happen to have a copy of the build sheet for the Factory race team Bonneville Hawk? That would prove this car right or wrong one way or the other.

GThawkwind
03-13-2013, 01:13 AM
Why does the hood swing forward ? all the c k hoods I've seen open normal style, is that a 64 thing or a shed handle thing ?

I'll second what r2 -4-me said I feel for this car it needs saved, as bad as it looks it would be an easy save.

JimC
03-13-2013, 01:39 AM
Why does the hood swing forward ? all the c k hoods I've seen open normal style, is that a 64 thing or a shed handle thing ?

I'll second what r2 -4-me said I feel for this car it needs saved, as bad as it looks it would be an easy save.
Probably one of the many, many modifications this car has received over the years. Definitely shed-handle related. I'll bet a closer look would reveal a couple door hinges. Maybe even the shed door hinges that came with the handles. :D

I think this car could be saved, but it might not be easy. That black and red paint under the hood is really awful, and it worries me that they might not have used real engine paint. Wouldn't that be fun, driving your new car around when the engine suddenly bursts into flames! The black paint on the radiator hoses tells me the paint job was done since the last hose change. It almost makes me thing that some of this dressing was done specifically to sell the car quick, if not during this sale, than to the guy who's trying to sell it now. I'd be highly suspect of everything on this car. Moreso considering I didn't see a serial plate in the pictures where you can see the door post. Everything just smells fishy about this car. (And it has to be the car, because it's not even close to Friday yet! :D)

I'd love a Hawk, and if I had the means and if this one were going for the current $4500 bid, I'd consider taking this poor sick puppy home and nursing it back to health. It could become a fun little ride. Or alternately, I could cut off the mufflers, paint the exterior flat black, and call it a rat rod. Truthfully, that might be the easier avenue with this one.

studebaker-R2-4-me
03-13-2013, 02:12 AM
I think this car could be saved, but it might not be easy. Everything just smells fishy about this car. (And it has to be the car, because it's not even close to Friday yet! :D)

I'd love a Hawk, and if I had the means and if this one were going for the current $4500 bid, I'd consider taking this poor sick puppy home and nursing it back to health. It could become a fun little ride. Or alternately, I could cut off the mufflers, paint the exterior flat black, and call it a rat rod. Truthfully, that might be the easier avenue with this one.

I'd offer you the grill surround inserts that I replaced with NOS one's on my Hawk. Their not the best but it would get you started for driver. No worries anyway the seller is in the stratosphere on the BIN.

Allen

David
03-13-2013, 08:39 AM
I don't believe anyone has mentioned the full length rocker panels. Very odd.

JDP
03-13-2013, 08:51 AM
What I'm wondering about are those "Fiberglass fenders, hood, doors, trunk, rear quarters, from factory!????"
'Fiberglass fenders' yep could well be, but 'hood, doors, trunk, rear quarters' how likely is that ???
Bondo and chicken wire? Anyone ever seen a fiberglass '64 trunk lid?


I sold a fiberglass 64 deck lid a few years back, so they do exist.

M15 Trucker
03-13-2013, 09:53 AM
I sent hima question about the supercharger, where is it? I also asked if he knew for sure what was fiberglass by testing it with a magnet

BobPalma
03-13-2013, 09:58 AM
The body tag in the listing says it is body #410. Does anybody happen to have a copy of the build sheet for the Factory race team Bonneville Hawk? That would prove this car right or wrong one way or the other.

Cheris, by "Factory race team Bonneville Hawk," do you mean the group of cars specifically built for "assaulting the record books" prior to the 1964 model year introduction?

If so, as you say, body #410 would be 'way too high to have been part of that endeavor. I'll check the records if that is what you meant. :cool: BP

Jerry Forrester
03-13-2013, 11:30 AM
I was thinking of listing my Stude ( http://www.streetsideclassics.com/showcarvideos.php?stock=615&location=atl&fullname=1955%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Deluxe%2016G8 ) on Ebay. But after reading this thread, I think I WONT. I'll just call a roll-back and have it taken the the crusher. You guys are like a bunch of 8th graders. No big 'G' here.

Chris Pile
03-13-2013, 12:18 PM
Jerry -
Were you planning to have lots of bad info on your auction page, and to misrepresent the condition?
I think not.

63 R2 Hawk
03-13-2013, 01:05 PM
Today's ebay edit:
Please note i am in negotiations with someone who was directly involved with the building of this car and has cleared up some questions about parts lineage and history, it was a crazy time for studebaker at time car was done and he wishes to remain anonymous and will more than likely purchase car for his collection So if Removed early i am Sorry to anyone who was interested!!! and to all people who pointed out all the percieved incorrect things i hope you are people i am up against if i find that 67 shelby mustang convertable that people say was never built!!!! but turns out they did ,

.........................................
I guess we will never know the true origins of this magnificent Studebaker "Skunk Works" racer, since the creator will remain forever anonymous.

warrlaw1
03-13-2013, 01:21 PM
Seems he didn't appreciate the critique of his offering. The builder wants it back, but chooses to remain anonymous? I would, too (lol).

PackardV8
03-13-2013, 01:31 PM
I was thinking of listing my Stude ( http://www.streetsideclassics.com/showcarvideos.php?stock=615&location=atl&fullname=1955%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Deluxe%2016G8 ) on Ebay. But after reading this thread, I think I WONT. I'll just call a roll-back and have it taken the the crusher. You guys are like a bunch of 8th graders. No big 'G' here.

Jerry, I always value your contributions to this forum and you're certainly entitled to your opinion and yes, sometimes we do get carried away in a seeming contest to see who can pick the most nits in an incorrect eBay description.

Having said that, Jerry, IIRC, you're in the chrome and car business. How many times has a customer come to you with a piece of junk he's bought off eBay? If you're like me, you hate to point out he paid way too much for an incompletely/incorrectly described or completely misrepresented car or part. Yes, it's possible to get the sale rescinded, but it's a huge, time-consuming hassle, especially if a car has been shipped across the country.

To be fair, when a Studebaker car or truck is well-presented and correctly described it gets praise and thank-yous from the members here. When JDP got out of the Studebaker brokering business, we lost a great resource. Every one of his listings showed how it should be done.

In the midst of the criticisms, several members here have received PMs from potential bidders/buyers thanking them for pointing areas of concern and maybe preventing them from making a questionable buy.

How about we all dial back the piling-on and just refer to visible and verifiable areas of praise and concern.

Your opinions and results may vary.

jack vines

JEWELL
03-13-2013, 01:48 PM
As for me, I will wait for Mr. Palma's report on what he can find on body #410. Right or wrong this car has some interesting body parts.

Mark

11SecAvanti
03-13-2013, 02:05 PM
Gentlemen:. This car has many of the features I made to a 64 GT Hawk in the early 90's. If this is the car then I have the history of 10 years of it's existence. Back in 91-92 I bought a 64 GT Hawk (red bourgeoney color with black interior out of N.C. In the mid 90's I modified it for drag racing and ran a PS 289 motor with reworked heads and single turbo charger. This car was raced weekly at Richmond Dragway and VMP. Ran a best of 12.11 @ 111.25 mph. Trans is B/W and motor should be a 57 Golden Hawk motor. PS serial number. Car was painted Whelbon White (Ford color). Hood and front fenders were fiberglass (york purchase). Trunk is fiberglass. Made it from the original. Door skins are fiberglass (made the skins). Rear quarters are fiberglass. Made them also. I had the weight down to about 3000 lbs. The hood tilts up off of some brackets. The battery was in the trunk. A lot of the floor board is also fiberglass. My Hawk did not have a tach and I put in it a B/M shifter like the one in the photo. I got 63 door panels from York. I still notice the headliner, especially the water shrinkage on the cloth near the rear window.

I sold it on ebay and it went to Pa. Changes made. Seats are different. But check the rear seat. I took the springs out of the rear seat to remove weight. Mirrors are different. Engine was not red but black. Color was not orange but white and factory color is Bourgeoney Red. As for the side gas vent. That side was closed off on the race GT so someone opened it and installed the circle section. Battery and race fuel cell were in the trunk. I kept it as a street car and drove it to the track. I used hood pins up by the cowl for the hood retention. Someone added the lift handles and looks like a pull cable was added. My headlights were also black and the grill was painted black also. No fender inserts were on the car.

I feel confident this is the old GT Drag Race Car. And know, it never went to Bonneville. But it was fast. If I am wrong, please accept my apoligies. I may have some pictures here somewhere.

8E45E
03-13-2013, 02:16 PM
I was thinking of listing my Stude ( http://www.streetsideclassics.com/showcarvideos.php?stock=615&location=atl&fullname=1955%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Deluxe%2016G8 ) on Ebay. But after reading this thread, I think I WONT. I'll just call a roll-back and have it taken the the crusher. You guys are like a bunch of 8th graders. No big 'G' here.

I would like to think of this particular thread as a 'heads-up' for a potential buyer. The seller has, a) clearly misrepresented the car by stating its supercharged, and stating the fiberglass body panels are 'factory'. b) The 'restoration' is less than stellar as can be seen in the photos.

No, we are NOT 8th graders, but it is far more important that someone is aware of these discrepancies in advance before making a transaction. I certainly hope that someone does not buy it at the price stated, and then discover the Forum AFTER he bought it!!

Craig

warrlaw1
03-13-2013, 02:17 PM
Cool. As a street/drag car it makes a whole lotta sense. Now, did the seller actually contact you?

63 R2 Hawk
03-13-2013, 02:23 PM
Makes more sense.

11SecAvanti
03-13-2013, 02:28 PM
No, just reviewed the engine photos and reconize the standard fuel pump that I modified for boost pressure regulation. Might mention that I ran it with a 57 GH blower initially with blown 2 barrel before converting to single TO-4. Had side pipeing on the pasenger side. That's a one wire alternator I installed also. Engine (if not changed) is a genuine 57 GH PS short block. I had a 57 GH but sold it on ebay with a Cad 425 motor. I still have the heads here for that 57 engine. But it was sold with the correct heads if my memory is correct. Not modified heads but standard heads is what I mean.

BobPalma
03-13-2013, 02:51 PM
As for me, I will wait for Mr. Palma's report on what he can find on body #410. Right or wrong this car has some interesting body parts. Mark

Well, Mark; there is nothing particularly "special" about 1964 Hawk, Serial Number 64V3673. It carried Body #410 and was destined for Augusta GA.

Bordeaux Red, Black Vinyl interior. PS, PB, Flightomatic, PB Radio, Climatizer, electric washers, whitewall tires, undercoat. Nothing else.

'About as nondescript a Hawk as you could imagine...not that it wouldn't make a wonderful driver today with the base 210 HP engine (PH329, BTW), Flightomatic, and Power Steering! :ohmy: BP

8E45E
03-13-2013, 02:55 PM
Well, Mark; there is absolutely nothing "special" about 1964 Hawk, Serial Number 64V3673. It carried Body #410 and was destined for Augusta GA.

Bordeaux Red, Black Vinyl interior. PS, PB, Flightomatic, PB Radio, Climatizer, electric washers, whitewall tires, undercoat. Nothing else.

'About as nondescript a Hawk as you could imagine...not that it wouldn't make a wonderful driver today with the base 210 HP (PH329, BTW) engine, Flightomatic, and Power Steering!BP

Thanks, Bob.

That basically backs up what I have to say about it being oversensationalized in his description.

Craig

BobPalma
03-13-2013, 02:58 PM
Thanks, Bob.

That basically backs up what I have to say about it being oversensationalized in his description.

Craig

Oversensationalized?

An e-bay description?

On this forum? :ohmy:

Why, "I never..." :eek: BP

11SecAvanti
03-13-2013, 03:15 PM
My GT 64 was Bordeaus Red so that much agrees. I'll go through my files and find my old ebay sell records. I am convinced this is my former GT that I drove for over 10 years. Bob says it is nothing special but she was special to me and the new owner. First GT Hawk with Stude power into the high 12's with a blown 2 barrel. And first GT Hawk into the low sub 12's. Had a lot of heads up wins in this car. And was rock smooth on the top end at 110 plus. Hope someone restores her for the future. Always wondered what happened to the car. Glad she wasn't crushed. I believe I still have this matching engine number. Will check that too in case a person wants it restored correctly. That chrome was NOS.

JimC
03-13-2013, 03:29 PM
Jerry,

No offense, but is it fair to overreact about other people overreacting?

I won't speak for the others, but as for the little bit of fun I've poked at this car in this thread, I'd do it again in a heartbeat, a hundred times over, in this context.

Those last three words are the crux of this. Context is key. If some 16 year old came to this site, posted those pics, and said "Hey guys, check out my Hawk. I found it dead in a scrapyard and got it running, what do you think?", I would proceed to praise the heck out of that young person on a great first shot at a Stude. If a drag racer came here, posted pics of the car, and said "Hey guys, check out my Hawk. I'm trying to break some serious speed records, so I swapped as much metal for fiberglass as I could, pulled a bunch of stuff out, and made some changes to get it to the strip. What do you think?" I'd probably offer some praise for keeping it looking so original even with all the aftermarket parts, and maybe offer some critiques that would be wholly helpful.

But what this guy is doing is totally different. He's flat out lying about this car, trying to claim it's something it's not. A few others here are interpreting his latest update to the auction as him saying he's spoke to whomever modified it, but to me, in context it looks like he's actually trying to claim that he's talking to someone from Studebaker who built it on the assembly line like it is now. He's still holding to the line that this is some sort of special production car that came from the factory like this. HE IS A LIAR. At the very best, he started out misrepresenting the facts because he just didn't know them, and now is resorting to lying to cover his tracks. More than likely though, the guy selling this thing is a con artist, trying to sell a crappy car for an inflated profit by duping some poor hapless victim of his scam. Look at that under-hood paint. Bright flashy colors obviously put on poorly. Look at the black spray paint in the second to last photo he posted. See how the top hose is sprayed? See how the overspray on the alternator belt fades out at the alternator the same way it fades out on the alternator mounting arm? It looks like this vehicle hadn't even been started between the time the paint was sprayed on and the time the photos were taken. What is he covering up? What is he hiding under that red and black paint? This whole thing stinks to high heaven, and so when I see someone trying to swindle my fellow man so plainly, I don't feel bad at all if the people in the community rise up and put such a swindler in his place.

Again, context is key. If you were selling this car Jerry, would you list it the way he did? Would you lie, claiming the car is something that it simply can not be? No. You're an upstanding guy, well respected in the Studebaker community. You'd tell it like it is, plainly and truthfully. And when I saw that ad, I wouldn't even think of poking fun at it or you, because the context is a respected person being honest. This guy is an unknown. Look at his ebay account. He has ZERO positive feedback as a seller, and the most of his feedback as a buyer is on old amplifiers, not cars or car parts for the 30+ cars he claims. Maybe the guy thought he had something special, and got burned, and now he's going to burn the next guy because of it. Maybe he didn't mean to be dishonest, but now he's lying to save face.Who knows. Either way, he's not being honest, and I have no problem seeing people so dishonest come face to face with a little persecution for their dishonesty.

warrlaw1
03-13-2013, 03:31 PM
The fact that 11sec has the knowledge that all of us were looking for on this car is simply amazing. What a powerful tool SDC can be. Once I was purusing eBay and saw some cute re-pop parts, but thought they were slightly overpriced. I contacted the seller and told him I could buy them cheaper through SDC vendors. His reply: "where do you think I'm getting them?". Hats off to SDC and the forum contributors.

GThawkwind
03-13-2013, 03:58 PM
Knowing that this 11secavanti's old car makes it alot more worthwhile, with all those great fiberglass parts, this would be an awesome place to start a hotrod, personally I'm thinkin' R5 clone with how light it is it would be spooky fast. This car was probably still white a week before this sale started, and I bet the engine was still black too, it's all " fresh paint " This dude is a swindeler just hoping someone really dumb, and wealthy will bite his synthenic bait. That dosen't mean this car is'it special in its own right, with some proper seats, hood repair, recroming, and a little bit o' love it could be a sweet driver.

11SecAvanti, you should contact the seller and buy it back:cool:

Chris_Dresbach
03-13-2013, 04:02 PM
Cheris, by "Factory race team Bonneville Hawk," do you mean the group of cars specifically built for "assaulting the record books" prior to the 1964 model year introduction?

If so, as you say, body #410 would be 'way too high to have been part of that endeavor. I'll check the records if that is what you meant. :cool: BP


Yup, that's exactly what I'm asking. IF GT Hawk body #410 was once part of the factory Bonneville team of car... Even though I agree, #410 is WAY too high.

JimC
03-13-2013, 04:04 PM
Knowing that this 11secavanti's old car makes it alot more worthwhile, with all those great fiberglass parts, this would be an awesome place to start a hotrod, personally I'm thinkin' R5 clone with how light it is it would be spooky fast. This car was probably still white a week before this sale started, and I bet the engine was still black too, it's all " fresh paint " This dude is a swindeler just hoping someone really dumb, and wealthy will bite his synthenic bait. That dosen't mean this car is'it special in its own right, with some proper seats, hood repair, recroming, and a little bit o' love it could be a sweet driver.

11SecAvanti, you should contact the seller and buy it back:cool:Oh, I agree. This car is special on its own, without lying about it. Had the owner been honest, he'd probably sell it. The problem is, the owner thinks that dishonesty will yield a better profit than facts, so he took a car that probably would have sold, maybe to someone from this very forum, and made it into a frightening endeavor that nobody here would touch.

Like I said a couple of my posts back, had I the means, this car could be a lot of fun to bring back to good condition. But the owner is trying to get more than its worth by misrepresenting it, so more than likely he will be the one left holding the keys at the end of the day. It's sad, because everyone loses.

BobPalma
03-13-2013, 04:28 PM
My GT 64 was Bordeaus Red so that much agrees. I'll go through my files and find my old ebay sell records. I am convinced this is my former GT that I drove for over 10 years. Bob says it is nothing special but she was special to me and the new owner. First GT Hawk with Stude power into the high 12's with a blown 2 barrel. And first GT Hawk into the low sub 12's. Had a lot of heads up wins in this car. And was rock smooth on the top end at 110 plus. Hope someone restores her for the future. Always wondered what happened to the car. Glad she wasn't crushed. I believe I still have this matching engine number. Will check that too in case a person wants it restored correctly. That chrome was NOS.

Tom, I'm sure you know I meant there was "nothing special" about the car as manufactured.

That was the basic inquiry being made all along, and I spent the better part of an hour so I could answer the base question and derail (or verify) a lot of speculation one way or another.

What it became after it left South Bend would be another matter, and not the issue I was addressing. I'm positive Ted Harbit's Chicken Hawk or your current Avanti were "nothing special" as manufactured, but they sure are now! Geeze. :D :cool: BP

SN-60
03-13-2013, 06:08 PM
I think that every Studebaker that was built was "SOMETHING SPECIAL" (In My opinion)

jimmijim8
03-13-2013, 06:15 PM
Really correct Jerry. I deleted my posts after thinking about them overnight. If the guy is a club member and probably not, we should not poke fun at his car. He may have hurt feelings and commit suicide. On the other hand, forum members that live in glass houses shouldn't toss bricks. Just cause the guy is selling a car that he might have prepared not as most would do it doesn't make it ok for us to poke fun unless those that are poking fun would volunteere their car posted and torn apart. I'm game both ways. Are we all? Although the red hawk may take the cake,I have seen some amateurish, tasteless offerings since being involved with the club. The red hawk is not as I would have done it. To some, this type of work comes natural. Others will never attain this level. But, that story line is incredibly condured up. Sorry I wasted my time with red hawk. cheers jimmijim

StudeRich
03-13-2013, 06:31 PM
Thank you JimC for straightening all of us out in Post # 54 on situations like this.
That is the best answer I have seen in a long time to put someone's "way out there" post and the rest of us back into reality. :!:

jimmijim8
03-13-2013, 06:31 PM
Nice car Jerry. Chrome looks great Change that background music. It sucks. I was expecting bubbles to grace the screen. cheers jimmijim
I was thinking of listing my Stude ( http://www.streetsideclassics.com/showcarvideos.php?stock=615&location=atl&fullname=1955%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Deluxe%2016G8 ) on Ebay. But after reading this thread, I think I WONT. I'll just call a roll-back and have it taken the the crusher. You guys are like a bunch of 8th graders. No big 'G' here.

11SecAvanti
03-13-2013, 06:36 PM
Found my ebay sell papers on the 64 GT. Yes, that's the car I owned, drove for 10 years and drag raced up until 2003. I gave it a 62 front end look for beauty and air flow improvement. And I still have the matching engine complete from oil pan to carb with good oil pressure that runs. But the engine left here with a good running 57 GH short block. Here are some paper photos from the sale.

Small world indeed. Hope someone restores her or goes racing again. Racing a car adds to the value in IMO.

R_David
03-13-2013, 06:46 PM
Well having the "Rest if the Story" makes a big difference. I would actually consider buying it if 11sec was selling it. Heck I would still probably consider buying it from the current seller if I had room in my stable. I think it could be turned into quite a beauty with a little work.

jimmijim8
03-13-2013, 07:04 PM
Yeah, I might buy it also if I found out if It was the only one on the planet and I wanted a real piece of swiss cheese.

Jessie J.
03-14-2013, 12:49 AM
It is an interesting one, and a lot of history there. To bad the e-bay presentation did not focus on what it really is, and that bit 'o history that 11sec has shared with us.
Knowing that now, I'd love to have it, but the present BIN is way to much for this old retiree to even comptemplate. Hopefully it will finally end up in the hands of a real enthusiast that will appreciate it for what it is.

Old race cars can be a very iffy proposition, and anyone interested would be well advised to check it out in person, to assure they are satisfied with the build quality.

GThawkwind
03-14-2013, 02:20 AM
Yeah, I might buy it also if I found out if It was the only one on the planet and I wanted a real piece of swiss cheese.
If cars could cry, it would be because they heard you talking about them

JEWELL
03-14-2013, 07:25 AM
I think that every Studebaker that was built was "SOMETHING SPECIAL" (In My opinion)

Could not agree more SN-60, and if we had just waited for the body number report from Mr. Palma we colud have put all the questions we had to bed. Still, the car is a rare 64 Hawk and I think could be a fun car to take to the streets.

Mark

candbstudebakers
03-14-2013, 11:41 AM
Gentlemen:. This car has many of the features I made to a 64 GT Hawk in the early 90's. If this is the car then I have the history of 10 years of it's existence. Back in 91-92 I bought a 64 GT Hawk (red bourgeoney color with black interior out of N.C. In the mid 90's I modified it for drag racing and ran a PS 289 motor with reworked heads and single turbo charger. This car was raced weekly at Richmond Dragway and VMP. Ran a best of 12.11 @ 111.25 mph. Trans is B/W and motor should be a 57 Golden Hawk motor. PS serial number. Car was painted Whelbon White (Ford color). Hood and front fenders were fiberglass (york purchase). Trunk is fiberglass. Made it from the original. Door skins are fiberglass (made the skins). Rear quarters are fiberglass. Made them also. I had the weight down to about 3000 lbs. The hood tilts up off of some brackets. The battery was in the trunk. A lot of the floor board is also fiberglass. My Hawk did not have a tach and I put in it a B/M shifter like the one in the photo. I got 63 door panels from York. I still notice the headliner, especially the water shrinkage on the cloth near the rear window.

I sold it on ebay and it went to Pa. Changes made. Seats are different. But check the rear seat. I took the springs out of the rear seat to remove weight. Mirrors are different. Engine was not red but black. Color was not orange but white and factory color is Bourgeoney Red. As for the side gas vent. That side was closed off on the race GT so someone opened it and installed the circle section. Battery and race fuel cell were in the trunk. I kept it as a street car and drove it to the track. I used hood pins up by the cowl for the hood retention. Someone added the lift handles and looks like a pull cable was added. My headlights were also black and the grill was painted black also. No fender inserts were on the car.

I feel confident this is the old GT Drag Race Car. And know, it never went to Bonneville. But it was fast. If I am wrong, please accept my apoligies. I may have some pictures here somewhere.

Yes the ad did take a beating but if it had not then Tom might not have known his old car is still around, so good things do sometimes work out for the better, in this case I think it did. the so called person that might be buying it back might be the guy Tom sold it to, one never knows. As for bashing posts that is one thing but to pick on an e-bay ad is something different and if for some reason the e-bay ad is put on by a forum member then some care should be taken if known. I do put posts up for in put and when doing so I need to remember that I am asking for what ever comes good or bad, thanks Tom for getting to the bottom of this one.

ddub
03-14-2013, 02:13 PM
Something I believe would help is to limit criticism to facts and not attack people.

studegary
03-14-2013, 02:16 PM
I see that the eBay listing has been pulled.

JoeHall
03-14-2013, 06:57 PM
I see that the eBay listing has been pulled.

I understand Jay Leno bought it.

radrodz
03-14-2013, 07:40 PM
I understand Jay Leno bought it.

iam the person who posted ad in e-bay and i am really upstet for a few reasons 1/i was given bogus info by not only person i bought car from but from other people who have seen car during time i owned it!!!! but there was only two people who responded in a mature informative way to the listing and because they did i contacted person i bought car from and found out some facts were exagerated to me!!!! the rest of you hurled insults and sarcasms at me instead of trying to help you made a difficult situation like fighting cancer and having to get rid of things you enjoy,harder and made me feel like a moron for being taken by another seller. but to those who said i was intentionaly lying to sell car and was "a con artist "you are wrong!!!! none of you did anything but say things like theres no way the body panels are fiberglass!and thats not a 64 retard!!! so i hope you had fun at my exspense from your cloak of anominity and at least know you guys are way to smart to be missinformed on your studebakers!!! i never said that i knew for a fact it was bonneville car or that glass panells were factory installed thats what ?????????????? in listing means maybe you are experts on hawks but not Grammer it apears,too bad i hated to get rid of my 1st stude but after this witch hunt i am glad i dont have to share anything in common with those who were so rotten!!! and it sucks it took this long to be able to post on this forum ps one of your own was good enough to direct me to you juveniles!!!!at least 1 of you are not self righteous!!!!

radrodz
03-14-2013, 07:44 PM
also to tom thanks for building such a cool car i had fun with it and it was fast!!!!!!! rivaled my big block torino or tt fox cobra!!!! i hated to get rid of her but need money for medical billsthat va doesnt cover.

radrodz
03-14-2013, 07:52 PM
also tom if you would contact me i would like to get accurate info and i willtell you and only you identity of person i got car from and info docs etc they gave me!!!!at very least i have questions on some things that were on car when i got it thanks dj

JoeHall
03-14-2013, 07:53 PM
iam the person who posted ad in e-bay and i am really upstet for a few reasons 1/i was given bogus info by not only person i bought car from but from other people who have seen car during time i owned it!!!! but there was only two people who responded in a mature informative way to the listing and because they did i contacted person i bought car from and found out some facts were exagerated to me!!!! the rest of you hurled insults and sarcasms at me instead of trying to help you made a difficult situation like fighting cancer and having to get rid of things you enjoy,harder and made me feel like a moron for being taken by another seller. but to those who said i was intentionaly lying to sell car and was "a con artist "you are wrong!!!! none of you did anything but say things like theres no way the body panels are fiberglass!and thats not a 64 retard!!! so i hope you had fun at my exspense from your cloak of anominity and at least know you guys are way to smart to be missinformed on your studebakers!!! i never said that i knew for a fact it was bonneville car or that glass panells were factory installed thats what ?????????????? in listing means maybe you are experts on hawks but not Grammer it apears,too bad i hated to get rid of my 1st stude but after this witch hunt i am glad i dont have to share anything in common with those who were so rotten!!! and it sucks it took this long to be able to post on this forum ps one of your own was good enough to direct me to you juveniles!!!!at least 1 of you are not self righteous!!!!

I was guessing you had been misinformed, and was just passing on the info you had been given. The first GT Hawk I bought, I was misinformed too, even grossly misinformed. The seller coulda told me anything and I would have probably believed it. We live & learn I guess.

Your car has a lot of potential, and hopefully the new owner will put it on the road and have fun in it. As a 12 second car, it would definitely run the wheels off my GT.

Sorry to hear, if I understood correctly that you have cancer.

Joe

DEEPNHOCK
03-14-2013, 08:08 PM
Unfortunately, you have discovered one of the harder sides to specialty forums.
There has been for a long time several that like to analyze, over analyze, pick apart, and nitpick any Ebay auction for a Studebaker (and any other marque for that matter)...
This is a very historical brand of car, and lifetimes of research has been prepared, presented, discussed, and argued over the decades.
The desire to sell a Studebaker, and describe it as a special build in order to make as much money as possible is a perfectly normal thing to do.
But the descriptions have to be spot on. Word of mouth has to be checked. Verification must be made.
Your Bonneville factory connection claims were just that. Claims that you took to be true, if you were to trust your sources of information.
Cancer has nothing to do with due diligence. Neither does grammar and spell check.
Those are just good business ad writing practices. Anything less is just amateur and sloppy (but that is just an opinion).
Caveat emptor, and buyer beware, in the used car biz is the operating norm.
The fact that these claims were put in your Ebay description, even if the heresay had the heresay disclaimer, were a daunting challenge to anyone who has true historical knowledge of the extremely specialized history of the Studebaker/Granatelli Bonneville efforts in the sixties.
Your frustration is just. But your frustration should be tempered with the fact that if you had done your homework better, your grade might have been better, and your final exam (ie: selling price) might have been better.
I do not like the 'piling on' that happens with Ebay ad's getting unholy scrutiny on this forum.
But, most of the time, there are a lot of inaccuracies that are brought to light for the informed, and especially for the uninformed.
Now....
Rather than rant on this forum, you should re-group and re-write your Ebay ad with a tone of new information that you just recently learned.
Heck...We all just learned about this car from one of the previous owners who did 90% of the mods to this car.
It adds to the value of your car...more than the value of the Bonneville claims!
Don't quiblle and complain.
Re-write the ad and re-do it with your new knowledge!
You might be surprised.
And you might make some new friends.
HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)
Jeffhttp://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/images/icons/icon6.png



iam the person who posted ad in e-bay and i am really upstet for a few reasons 1/i was given bogus info by not only person i bought car from but from other people who have seen car during time i owned it!!!! but there was only two people who responded in a mature informative way to the listing and because they did i contacted person i bought car from and found out some facts were exagerated to me!!!! the rest of you hurled insults and sarcasms at me instead of trying to help you made a difficult situation like fighting cancer and having to get rid of things you enjoy,harder and made me feel like a moron for being taken by another seller. but to those who said i was intentionaly lying to sell car and was "a con artist "you are wrong!!!! none of you did anything but say things like theres no way the body panels are fiberglass!and thats not a 64 retard!!! so i hope you had fun at my exspense from your cloak of anominity and at least know you guys are way to smart to be missinformed on your studebakers!!! i never said that i knew for a fact it was bonneville car or that glass panells were factory installed thats what ?????????????? in listing means maybe you are experts on hawks but not Grammer it apears,too bad i hated to get rid of my 1st stude but after this witch hunt i am glad i dont have to share anything in common with those who were so rotten!!! and it sucks it took this long to be able to post on this forum ps one of your own was good enough to direct me to you juveniles!!!!at least 1 of you are not self righteous!!!!

JimC
03-14-2013, 08:11 PM
"Rodz";

I'll echo Joe's concern about the illness. That is truly unfortunate.

At the same time, with all due respect, your ad was misleading, from start to finish. You claimed that the serial number on the door post is 0010, but it's been proven here that is not the case. You made a lot of extraordinary claims, and offered no extraordinary proof. If I were selling a car that were suspected to be a prototype, you can bet that I would do my homework before posting an ad. There are several guys here on this forum with prototype Studebakers, and many of them hav all sorts of photos, documentation and other proofs that what they have is real. Plus, It's hard to believe that someone would legitimately believe that any car would leave any factory with those home improvement store shed handles on the hood. Later on, you say that you contacted the builder of the car, but you still stuck to your guns that this was "a crazy time at Studebaker" which, without saying it, insinuates that you're saying the car did in fact leave the factory like this.

If you truly were taken by the previous owner and you genuinely believed all that stuff you posted, then I truly feel for you. You were duped. Conned. Taken. At the same time, as it was said in one of the very first posts in this thread, had you spent 5 minutes doing research, or signed on here first, we would have been happy to help you figure out the true history of the car, and to get you on the right foot. This car really does have a very interesting history, and if marketed on truth, it could probably go to a good home. But everything on your listing was fabricated, stem to stern, and there's no way people who care about other Stude owners should let something like that go unnoticed. If we do that, then someone else buys the car for way too much, and we have to tell them they've been totally burned. If you were in fact burnt by this car, I feel for you, but that still doesn't justify doing it to someone else.

Also, arguably, this forum did you a favor, albeit in an unusual way. In most states, if a seller grossly misrepresents a product to a buyer, that buyer can sue the seller's pants off, forcing them to take back the property, give back the money, and pay a hefty penalty for damages. By pointing out the inaccuracies in your ad, nobody who surfs this site bought your car, and thus we kept you from getting sued, at least by someone from here.

In closing, your illness sucks, as does the fact that you seem to have been taken. You have my sympathies for that. But in the future, research what you're selling, and don't hold to your guns if a lot of people are suggesting you might be incorrect.

8E45E
03-14-2013, 08:18 PM
Very well said, Jeff and Jim!!

BobPalma
03-14-2013, 08:19 PM
Jeff & Jim: Excellent, complimentary summations. :!: Well-spoken and appropriate. :) BP

radrodz
03-14-2013, 08:35 PM
you missed the point i wastrying to make nobody tried to say anything on ebays emails,other than those arent fiberglass panels or why is there a gm alternator and called me names for sying that the panels are fiberglss and that the body tag was on car when i got it that i didnt put a 64 body tag on a 62!!!! 2 poeple only asked about history and i gave it to them!!! as it was given to me the revision made when original seller came to buy it was explanation he gave me along with a folder of race slips and pics articles etc. allof which i offered to share with the 3 people who actualy called and asked questions that had to do with history of car and not questioning alternator and such!!!it is fine as the guy i got from payed me close to what i bought it for,he also said he didnt think i wouldsell it because i have had cars since i was 18 and kept them!!

radrodz
03-14-2013, 08:58 PM
just another note the tag on door is 0010 issued by motorvehicles in state of maine my registration shows vin #10 agin state of maine all this was issued by state when i registered car with docs given to me!!!!! so again i did not fabricate anything!!!! how many of you guys said they werenot fiberglass panels? when i had them infront of me and you were looking at pics.and that i had to have put body tag on because the screws are new !!! when you have documents given to you when you buy something,and had a studebaker "expert" advise me when buying then im the jerk when i go to sell? i had no reason until i found out about this thread it wasnt real, so the contention that i was intentionalyy misrepresenting it is far from true!!! iwas proud to have what i thought was a "rare "car,if any of you knew me you would know i wouldnt try to dupe anyone,and in my area i am respected for being fair and honest!!! ask the people i did speak to and they will tell you

8E45E
03-14-2013, 09:11 PM
Since Tom has come forward and commented on his previous ownership of the car, perhaps you and him can get together and rewrite an accurate history of the car this time and relist it accordingly.

Craig

radrodz
03-14-2013, 09:20 PM
just anote this forum didnt do anything but hide and talk back and forth to each other having fun with somone who wasnt even aware untill it was brought to my attetion by one of your members!!the listing was pulled by time the thread was started!!!! check it out ! somone couldhave told me about forum instead of calling me a retard!!! and such and i would have questioned my situation sooner!!!

radrodz
03-14-2013, 09:23 PM
i have contacted him to do just that!!!!!

4jc8z
03-14-2013, 09:25 PM
Why do I get the feeling that this thread has turned into a powder-keg? :(

Perhaps, it was mis-described. Okay, it was. BUT Does it make all you feel like bigger men to have a new sporting hobby of pointing out everything we perceive as incorrect on ebay? Some of the things said on both sides of the discussion, are just completely the type fighting words as a opening to a bar brawl.

I do not comprehend why these threads are allowed to continue for multiple pages. We should either have a completely un-moderated forum, where nothing is held back, or moderation should be enforced and NO ebay rip apart threads should be allowed. Threads like this remind me of playing in a sandbox with other 3 year olds.

Heather

radrodz
03-14-2013, 09:25 PM
the car was sold to original person i got it from anyway!!!!!!but i still want truth about what is one of the most fun cars i have ever had!!!!!

radrodz
03-14-2013, 09:27 PM
Why do I get the feeling that this thread has turned into a powder-keg? :(

Perhaps, it was mis-described. Okay, it was. BUT Does it make all you feel like bigger men to have a new sporting hobby of pointing out everything we perceive as incorrect on ebay? Some of the things said on both sides of the discussion, are just completely over the type fighting words as a opening to a bar brawl.

I do not comprehend why these threads are allowed to continue for multiple pages. We should either have a completely un-moderated forum, where nothing is held back, or moderation should be enforced and NO ebay rip apart threads should be allowed. Threads like this remind me of playing in a sandbox with other 3 year olds.

Heather

i wish more people like you had contacted me on ebay

Welcome
03-14-2013, 09:40 PM
i am the person who posted ad in e-bay<<<

WELCOME ...to the SDC Forum, Dan!!!;)

sweetolbob
03-14-2013, 10:18 PM
just anote this forum didnt do anything but hide and talk back and forth to each other having fun with somone who wasnt even aware untill it was brought to my attetion by one of your members!!the listing was pulled by time the thread was started!!!! check it out ! somone couldhave told me about forum instead of calling me a retard!!! and such and i would have questioned my situation sooner!!!

I believe the gentleman has a point and possibly a solution to many of these issues!

But then this tome would not have reached biblical proportions.

Bob

Corvanti
03-14-2013, 10:28 PM
Jeff & Jim: Excellent, complimentary summations. :!: Well-spoken and appropriate. :) BP

"DITTOS" from here. ;)

Dan, having bought vehicles in the past, i feel your pain - to a point! from my 1st car in 1970 to the present, i've picked up some "not as advertised".

now with this "inter-webby" thing, it's easy to check out any possible vehicle purchase you make - from forums to (for newer vehicles) - reviews...

live and learn. i have.

11SecAvanti
03-14-2013, 10:56 PM
Just read the forum updates. PM sent to Radrodz. The part that concerns me is how did the serial number on the driver side get changed?

GThawkwind
03-15-2013, 12:11 AM
Jim, I couldn't have said it better myself. That being said I do deeply regret your medical state, and wish you the best of luck Radrodz, and I am sorry for my comments, regarding your personal honesty. But if you want to know what set fire alarms off in my head about this ad it is this 22105 2210622107 in these photos there is overspary on the exaust manifolds, if ran for any length of time, this paint would burn off. The hoses and wires have obviously been spray painted black. There is overspray on everthing under the hood. I can not think of an explanation for these things that doesn't lead to a predatory car sale. If it was not for this, I wouldn't have said a word.
When I saw this ad, it looked like for all the world to me a used car salesman trying to trick someone. It happens all over the country, all the time, especially on ebay. When I think my someone is trying to dupe my fellow man, I'll say something. I wouldn't want someone to have bought this car, only to find out it had nothing to do with the bonneville record setting cars, and be out the money.
I'm sorry you were crucified up here, and I'm sorry you were duped on the car, I really am. But this ad could not have been more misleading. I like the car, I even said that before you posted here, it's really cool as an old drag car, with many well made lightweight panels, I just don't like con artists and when I read the ad thats what I thought you were.

Sharkonwheels
03-15-2013, 01:08 AM
<shrug>

This is nothing new, and not unique to SDC. Whether it's cars, or vintage computers, or vintage/antique stereos, or antique/collectible cameras, or whatever, it's all the same...
This happens on many of the forums, email lists, and UseNet newsgroups I frequent. If you're going to make undocumented outlandish claims, you should expect to hear from some folks.

Painted wiring, Home Depot hood handles, claim of supercharged with a clearly uncovered carb with no pressurization parts...

As a person currently shopping around and looking for a Stude, I appreciate that there are folks that will point stuff out... Like, for example, the black one I pointed out in California.
I guess like anything else, if a thread like this offends someone, well, skip the thread... Noone's being forced to read any threads on here, or anywhere else.

Just my $0.02 - you can keep the change ;)

Neil
03-15-2013, 08:35 AM
Radroz,You mentioned dealing with the VA.so I assume you are a veteran.As a fellow vet,I want to thank you for your service to our country. The best of luck to you.

warrlaw1
03-15-2013, 09:39 AM
I have a different perspective. Because of the forum you now know the real story of the car, contacted the previous builder and have a lot more valid information than you posted on eBay. Because of the forum you realize that the person that sold you the car has misrepresented it to you. You have a cause of action and can pursue remedies, if you wish. Because of the forum you are not going to misrepresent the car to a future buyer and be sued for misrepresentation, yourself. I think the forum did a wonderful job and instead of lashing out, you should join the club, be an active forum member and enjoy the wealth of knowledge given freely. These guys helped make my dream car a reality. They can stop nightmares, too.

bezhawk
03-15-2013, 10:36 AM
It's a natural tendency to react defensively when someone gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
It doesn't take away from the fact, that their hand was there in the first place.

radrodz
03-15-2013, 02:31 PM
the pics on listingare ones from when i bought car,i took pics before posting and they did not post said they were corrupted,and it was up a day and half with no pics!!! again with much criticism from all!!! i am not a techie and told many people yhat pics i took didnt work and three people told me "any pics were better than none!" so at their advise i put up "file pics of car " a mistake maybe but had so many angry people telling me i wasted their time.if i can get my 17 year old daughter to help me when she comes to visit(shee comes every 2 weeks for visitation as my wiffe left me sick in hospital for another man and i am now divorced!)i will have her help me post pics that are recent and than you can criticize me and it will actually be my work not the previous owners! i understand some of you folks but you are not the ones who were the "nast name callers those people have chose not to respond after i joined....

radrodz
03-15-2013, 02:36 PM
i could forward some of messages if i knew how and i bet some of you would be suprised at names i was called!!! it was a bad situation and experiance from beginning when i tried to list something myself 1st thing ever on ebay,my son has used account a few times but it was my first!!!! and probably will never try again.

radrodz
03-15-2013, 02:44 PM
as for me being a con artist it hurts to core as i spent my whole career trying to live with honor and now it has been questioned due to taking advise from wrong people both when i bought car and when i was selling!!! i will stick to my fords and porsches in future as i am knowledgeable enough not to get burned,or need advise on them, i am one who gives it! thanks to you guys who gave me good advise and thanks for nothing to those who gave me the bad!!! i am a firm believer in karma and like john lennon said "Insta Karma's Gonna Get You"

radrodz
03-15-2013, 05:00 PM
guy backed out, spring is almost here maybe ill keep this one and drive it for the summer and have some more fun and sell honda suv instead!!!! i have the gh motor still with 2v carb maybe put that back in and take her to new england dragway?? see if i can get it in to 11's??? if that motor was set up for boost i have some new t/3t4 turbos something to think about!!

Corvanti
03-15-2013, 06:11 PM
guy backed out, spring is almost here maybe ill keep this one and drive it for the summer and have some more fun and sell honda suv instead!!!! i have the gh motor still with 2v carb maybe put that back in and take her to new england dragway?? see if i can get it in to 11's??? if that motor was set up for boost i have some new t/3t4 turbos something to think about!!

sorry the guy backed out. i hope you stick around here for awhile, read the threads - check the search function - and learn more about Studebakers and your model.:) you'll find most folks here are a wealth of knowledge and will do anything to help! in a short time, you may want to to join the Studebaker Drivers Club.;) after purchasing my "modified" Avanti a few years ago, i received a few "nasty-mails" (as you, i didn't do the mods, but was aware of a couple of them)...

mainly have fun with her!!! :!:

radrodz
03-15-2013, 06:33 PM
sorry the guy backed out. i hope you stick around here for awhile, read the threads - check the search function - and learn more about Studebakers and your model.:) you'll find most folks here are a wealth of knowledge and will do anything to help! in a short time, you may want to to join the Studebaker Drivers Club.;) after purchasing my "modified" Avanti a few years ago, i received a few "nasty-mails" (as you, i didn't do the mods, but was aware of a couple of them)...

mainly have fun with her!!! :!:

thanks i will try to learn the technical aspect of web and have my 17yo daughter help me too!!! which reminds me out of 7 kids 5 boys 2 girls she is only one who is into cars,in fact when i gotnews of ilness and had told all of them they could pick out a car from collection,well 31 yo son and 23 yo son said sell them and give us money instead she couldnt make up her mind which one to choose,she finaly chose 51 caddy convertable!!

sweetolbob
03-15-2013, 07:00 PM
guy backed out, spring is almost here maybe ill keep this one and drive it for the summer and have some more fun and sell honda suv instead!!!! i have the gh motor still with 2v carb maybe put that back in and take her to new england dragway?? see if i can get it in to 11's??? if that motor was set up for boost i have some new t/3t4 turbos something to think about!!

Could turn out to be a great way to keep your mind occupied. Talk to 11secAvanti, the original builder as he knows the car and about the in's and out's of making them perform w/charger. I think you are about to have a great summer.

Avanti, Bob

Corvanti
03-15-2013, 07:01 PM
cool daughter! :cool: my "only" - 22 yr old daughter, has no interest other than keeping her '05 CTS properly maintained that i drilled into her.;)

BTW: i started on "chemo" (pills only) about 4 weeks ago while the oncologist and rheumotologist await more tests done every two weeks. from the bone marrow biopsy, it appears that it may be a auto-immune problem (lupus or rh arthitis) but more t-cell tests await.

What, Me Worry? :D

radrodz
03-15-2013, 07:59 PM
cool daughter! :cool: my "only" - 22 yr old daughter, has no interest other than keeping her '05 CTS properly maintained that i drilled into her.;)

BTW: i started on "chemo" (pills only) about 4 weeks ago while the oncologist and rheumotologist await more tests done every two weeks. from the bone marrow biopsy, it appears that it may be a auto-immune problem (lupus or rh arthitis) but more t-cell tests await.

What, Me Worry? :D
sorry to hear bob,i have been fighting for 6 years for a prognosis of 6-8 months,experimental drug trials,treatments etc i have had 6months of peace the whole time the only thing that helped was having my daughter help me build a 67 mustang s code coupe together,she is great!!!! i feel that when its time its time, i would love to be around a while longer i became grandad last year,but you just keep getting up and go through motions,and do something you enjoy like you said keep mind occupied,and whatever you do dont take it easy (except to listen to your limits)
hang in there bob!!!!

hausdok
03-15-2013, 08:40 PM
Some good points have been made about the criticisms here,

Whenever someone puts a Stude up for sale someplace on Ebay or James List or Hemmings, etc.. it does get picked apart here a lot. When one puts a car up for sale on ebay they can pretty much expect that those not too familiar with the marque might do a google or bing search for that model year in order to find out what it's worth. When they do that, they'll inevitably find the thread here that criticizes the car and that can greatly influence how that person bids.

Not so long ago there was a thread where some folks were upset about what they thought was nit-picking on the part of some judges at an event and they felt they shouldn't have lost points. If that's ever happened to you, and you are one of those folks in this thread picking at this ad, you should know exactly how radrodz feels and you should understand why Jerry started arguing against that kind of criticism.

Just sayin'

jlmccuan
03-15-2013, 10:03 PM
Ah the perils of using second hand information. There's a reason hearsay isn't allowed in court. But, we all learn as we go. My health issues have been a big part of my life for the last year, so I can empathize. Sure wish you had sons that were car guys, but a daughter who likes cars is a pretty cool deal. Enlist her aid and share your car experiences with her. It will last more than a lifetime. Oh yeah. Hang around, too. Folks around here get a little cabin fever this time of year. Most chill out once the get their cars out to play with better weather. Some are even nice to be around, lol.

4jc8z
03-15-2013, 10:05 PM
Amen, brother. Right on with your message.


Some good points have been made about the criticisms here,

Whenever someone puts a Stude up for sale someplace on Ebay or James List or Hemmings, etc.. it does get picked apart here a lot. When one puts a car up for sale on ebay they can pretty much expect that those not too familiar with the marque might do a google or bing search for that model year in order to find out what it's worth. When they do that, they'll inevitably find the thread here that criticizes the car and that can greatly influence how that person bids.

Not so long ago there was a thread where some folks were upset about what they thought was nit-picking on the part of some judges at an event and they felt they shouldn't have lost points. If that's ever happened to you, and you are one of those folks in this thread picking at this ad, you should know exactly how radrodz feels and you should understand why Jerry started arguing against that kind of criticism.

Just sayin'

Studedude
03-15-2013, 10:27 PM
Not that it really matters, but I have been put off by some of the recent activity on the forum. Understand, this is my favorite place on the Internet, so, on one hand, I hate to say anything, while on the other hand, I feel compelled to say something.

Threads like this are harmful to our club.

Why can't we learn to give an honest critique of a car, without calling the builder/owner/seller names, such as have been thrown around here? I just don't get it. We don't have to like what someone else has done to their car. For that matter, I reckon we don't even have to like each other, but there is no need, nothing to be gained, by airing our personal differences here. If you must slam somebody, at least show the rest of us the courtesy of using email or private messaging.

I agree that we have some obligation to report some deviations between what is described and what is actually presented. To some degree, we owe such to our fellow members. OTOH, we should come to realize that there are people behind these cars... real people, with real feelings.

Not every presentation that deviates from factory original is intended to deceive, as has been demonstrated here. Often, as it turns out, the perceived deviation was not a deviation at all, and the fellow that called it has to retract.

Beyond that, I have been disheartened by some less than respectful banter between our own, known, members... people I have met, and I consider to be mutual friends.

Please, set your differences/politics aside, learn to overlook some statements you may have totally misinterpreted, be civil, and play well with others.

As I said, my presence here is not of any significance, but I have posted less and less over the past few weeks because of this kind of childish behavior... some of which has been very disappointing to me, because it came from people that I would not have expected it from.

And, before someone else justifiably points out that I have made plenty of my own mistakes, let me plead guilty, beg your forgiveness, and state that I will try to do better.

r1lark
03-16-2013, 09:51 AM
Not that it really matters, but I have been put off by some of the recent activity on the forum. Understand, this is my favorite place on the Internet, so, on one hand, I hate to say anything, while on the other hand, I feel compelled to say something.

Threads like this are harmful to our club.

Why can't we learn to give an honest critique of a car, without calling the builder/owner/seller names, such as have been thrown around here? I just don't get it. We don't have to like what someone else has done to their car. For that matter, I reckon we don't even have to like each other, but there is no need, nothing to be gained, by airing our personal differences here. If you must slam somebody, at least show the rest of us the courtesy of using email or private messaging.

I agree that we have some obligation to report some deviations between what is described and what is actually presented. To some degree, we owe such to our fellow members. OTOH, we should come to realize that there are people behind these cars... real people, with real feelings.

Not every presentation that deviates from factory original is intended to deceive, as has been demonstrated here. Often, as it turns out, the perceived deviation was not a deviation at all, and the fellow that called it has to retract.

Beyond that, I have been disheartened by some less than respectful banter between our own, known, members... people I have met, and I consider to be mutual friends.

Please, set your differences/politics aside, learn to overlook some statements you may have totally misinterpreted, be civil, and play well with others.

As I said, my presence here is not of any significance, but I have posted less and less over the past few weeks because of this kind of childish behavior... some of which has been very disappointing to me, because it came from people that I would not have expected it from.

And, before someone else justifiably points out that I have made plenty of my own mistakes, let me plead guilty, beg your forgiveness, and state that I will try to do better.

Thank you Dave for the insightful words and plain talk. I was actually getting ready to post something similar.

I hope this thread is a wake up call for folks (me included). I've noticed a lot of long-time posters are either missing in action, or posting infrequently. Yes, life gets in the way a lot of times, but IMHO the downward spiral of civility on this forum most likely accounts for a lot of the MIA folks.

evilhawk
03-16-2013, 11:56 AM
I take it I'm the only one who saw the car on ebay and was actually interested in it. I didnt think it was a prototype, but I didnt care. All I saw was a very cool hawk that had fiberglass panels and a fast engine. I thought to myself "this could make one hell of a fast stude powered drag car!". I didnt even think the price was to outrages considering all the work that had been done to it. I mean, fiberglass trunk and quarters?? I figured they were custom made and cost someone a ton of cash. I think its pretty much a shame that all the negative talk and bickering about the authenticity of the sellers claims actually lead to him cancelling the auction and wrecking anyone's chances of actually winning the car. Then again I cant say its not typical for fanatics to do such things. I am part of a two stroke motorcycle club and a vintage computer club and have seen people do the same in both clubs. I always find it disturbing as I feel it doesnt matter if the seller doesnt know what he has or if his facts arent right or whatever. The point is I know what it is, the price is right, I want to own it and get angry when the auction is pulled because some "know it all" pissed off the seller.

SN-60
03-16-2013, 12:23 PM
Just read through most of this thread, (a bit boring), but anyway, the sellers ad, as originally placed on e-bay, WAS misleading.... and DEFINITELY needed correction. (In MY opinion)

warrlaw1
03-16-2013, 12:36 PM
If someone wants some picking on fun, you can pick on lawyers! There's a site called lawyersratingz.com (lol). They just savaged quite a few of my colleagues, and rightly so :)

Welcome
03-16-2013, 12:45 PM
I take it I'm the only one who saw the car on ebay and was actually interested in it. I didnt think it was a prototype, but I didnt care. All I saw was a very cool hawk that had fiberglass panels and a fast engine. I thought to myself "this could make one hell of a fast stude powered drag car!". I didnt even think the price was to outrages considering all the work that had been done to it. I mean, fiberglass trunk and quarters?? I figured they were custom made and cost someone a ton of cash. I think its pretty much a shame that all the negative talk and bickering about the authenticity of the sellers claims actually lead to him cancelling the auction and wrecking anyone's chances of actually winning the car. Then again I cant say its not typical for fanatics to do such things. I am part of a two stroke motorcycle club and a vintage computer club and have seen people do the same in both clubs. I always find it disturbing as I feel it doesnt matter if the seller doesnt know what he has or if his facts arent right or whatever. The point is I know what it is, the price is right, I want to own it and get angry when the auction is pulled because some "know it all" pissed off the seller
.

WOW …A willing (and now informed) BUYER has just stepped forward to buy the SELLER's item.:!!:

Sam, the SELLER (Dan) is right here of the SDC Forum as username "radrodz." You two can even finalize your details for the sale right here on the SDC Forum via PMs.

Congrats to both Dan & Sam!!!:!:

Isn’t it funny how these things work out for the good in the end!!!;):D

JimC
03-16-2013, 12:55 PM
I checked this horse's pulse a couple days ago and he was dead.

Why are we still beating it?

evilhawk
03-16-2013, 01:56 PM
Where did I state that I am buying the car or ready to deal? I made this post because I see this type of BS all the time and am tired of it. I lost out on a few deals in the past because of this type of crap. Either my point went right over your head or your just being a jerk.




WOW …A willing (and now informed) BUYER has just stepped forward to buy the SELLER's item.:!!:

Sam, the SELLER (Dan) is right here of the SDC Forum as username "radrodz." You two can even finalize your details for the sale right here on the SDC Forum via PMs.

Congrats to both Dan & Sam!!!:!:



Isn’t it funny how these things work out for the good in the end!!!;):D

Welcome
03-16-2013, 09:03 PM
Where did I state that I am buying the car or ready to deal? I made this post because I see this type of BS all the time and am tired of it. I lost out on a few deals in the past because of this type of crap. Either my point went right over your head or your just being a jerk.

Evilhawk (or whomever You are needing to hide Your real name from fellow SDC Forum Members) …You can answer Your own question by re-reading Your Post #113 in which You specifically stated "…I WANT TO OWN IT." How do You plan to "OWN IT" …if you don't "BUY IT.":confused: Kindly explain.

Also, please take note in that same SDC Forum Post Your use of indecent language …AND …now in Your Post # 118 You have personally attacked a SDC Forum Member!!!

Corvanti
03-16-2013, 09:22 PM
oh, stop it all, please!!! :mad:

i "want" many Studebakers i see for sale. i spent over my "wad" of $$$ on the late Tom Elliott's '51. i really didn't think my first and final bid on ebay would make it happen, but it did! :!!: i'd say it maybe it was "the Lord's will", but don't want to cross the boundary into what is frowned upon by some here...

now i need to keep most $ i have to make repairs/improvements. that doesn't mean i don't "want" or "lust" for more!!! as i said on another thread, i'd trade or sell my other car for another Stude that's a driver and hit a credit card or pay-pal if need be...:)

GThawkwind
03-16-2013, 09:53 PM
I checked this horse's pulse a couple days ago and he was dead.

Why are we still beating it?

Right on Jim, and you too corvanti, we've all gotten our answers and said our peace, this infighting is completely pointless, if differences need settled we should do it PMs not like this, we're better than this whole mess, and we should show it. Let's just forget this thread and talk about studes, and other random stuff as we please.
I think all are skepticism was completely understandable given todays, multitude of internet scams, but the man behiend the car has come foreward and faced his acusers, and whether you believe him or not this is no longer the place to discuss it. I think this thread should just be forgotten already. it was fun first but now it's just stupid, especially if it's causing hard feelings among our fellow SDC members.

radrodz
03-16-2013, 10:39 PM
Right on Jim, and you too corvanti, we've all gotten our answers and said our peace, this infighting is completely pointless, if differences need settled we should do it PMs not like this, we're better than this whole mess, and we should show it. Let's just forget this thread and talk about studes, and other random stuff as we please.
I think all are skepticism was completely understandable given todays, multitude of internet scams, but the man behiend the car has come foreward and faced his acusers, and whether you believe him or not this is no longer the place to discuss it. I think this thread should just be forgotten already. it was fun first but now it's just stupid, especially if it's causing hard feelings among our fellow SDC members.

i didnt mean to cause all the turmoil between members i just wanted to be able to correct the incorrect assumption that i am a "con artist and the other names i was called behind my back!and also explain the events that led to the listing on ebay,i am really sorry especially since the people who are starting to get tense with each other werent even involved with the insulting to begin with,isnt that the way?some people like to stir the pot add heat then leave to let it boil over and burn everyone else!! the horse is dead and iagree there are better things out there to discuss,and spring is in the air and for those of us who endure a way to long winter and a way too short driving season that means its almost time to get out our babys!!!! thats what these forums should be about PEACE!!!!:D

evilhawk
03-17-2013, 12:11 AM
LOL what are you the SDC grammar police?? I have the right to protect my identity from people like yourself, besides what does it matter to you? To answer your question, I wasnt referring to the car when I said I want to own it. I was referring to the past auctions that were ended early because of bickering much like this one. I just said it in the present sense as a rant. I type the way I speak and when put into text I can understand that it may be difficult for some to follow. I am sorry if you were confused by it, but it doesnt matter to me. What matters is the fact that when you responded to my comment you did so in such a rude and sarcastic manner. If you cant figure out why I would have been offended by that then its not worth arguing with you about it. Now please explain to me how I attacked anyone on this post and what foul language did I use? Do BS or crap classify as swear words?


Evilhawk (or whomever You are needing to hide Your real name from fellow SDC Forum Members) …You can answer Your own question by re-reading Your Post #113 in which You specifically stated "…I WANT TO OWN IT." How do You plan to "OWN IT" …if you don't "BUY IT.":confused: Kindly explain.

Also, please take note in that same SDC Forum Post Your use of indecent language …AND …now in Your Post # 118 You have personally attacked a SDC Forum Member!!!

avantilover
03-17-2013, 01:01 AM
Seems a good time to close this one down, so thread locked.